November 2, 200619 yr Considering the injuries and rumors about performance enhancement in regards to Gagne, I don't believe he would cost that much. Then again, some silly team could offer him $4mil and steal him. I'd pay $4 mil for Gagne well you're silly I wouldn't say Borowski was reborn. I wasn't pleased with his performance much at all. Neither was I. We can do better than Borowski and he was far from "reborn". Borowski was certainly "reborn". He had his best season in 3 years and was off the relative baseball map. Gagne > Borowski if we can afford him. Period.
November 2, 200619 yr Considering the injuries and rumors about performance enhancement in regards to Gagne, I don't believe he would cost that much. Then again, some silly team could offer him $4mil and steal him. I'd pay $4 mil for Gagne well you're silly I wouldn't say Borowski was reborn. I wasn't pleased with his performance much at all. Neither was I. We can do better than Borowski and he was far from "reborn". Borowski was certainly "reborn". He had his best season in 3 years and was off the relative baseball map. Gagne > Borowski if we can afford him. Period. I dont think it's a far stretch that Gagne never pitches the way he did back when he was lights out. He had major back surgery and there are plenty of rumors about him being on steroids from 2002-2005. That being said, if they were both the same price, I would take my chances with Gagne.
November 2, 200619 yr Considering the injuries and rumors about performance enhancement in regards to Gagne, I don't believe he would cost that much. Then again, some silly team could offer him $4mil and steal him. I'd pay $4 mil for Gagne well you're silly I wouldn't say Borowski was reborn. I wasn't pleased with his performance much at all. Neither was I. We can do better than Borowski and he was far from "reborn". Borowski was certainly "reborn". He had his best season in 3 years and was off the relative baseball map. Gagne > Borowski if we can afford him. Period. I dont think it's a far stretch that Gagne never pitches the way he did back when he was lights out. He had major back surgery and there are plenty of rumors about him being on steroids from 2002-2005. That being said, if they were both the same price, I would take my chances with Gagne. The key there is if they both were the same price. If Gagne wants more than 3 mil, I say we stick with Borowski who did have a good year, no denying that and would most likely come much cheaper than Gagne. But I still need to see more before making the assumption that he is reborn.
November 2, 200619 yr Considering the injuries and rumors about performance enhancement in regards to Gagne, I don't believe he would cost that much. Then again, some silly team could offer him $4mil and steal him. I'd pay $4 mil for Gagne $4 million for a guy that hid an injury from his team? Thats a little high. $2 million and Im all for Gagne. He's a semi-liability injury wise right now.
November 2, 200619 yr It's gotta be a vet that's been downright terrible lately, has been booed everywhere he goes, OR makes people bite their nails like there's no tomorrow like Looper, Urbina, Benitez, Jones, and Borowski were. Let's go for Brian Fuentes or Keith Foulke. So how did you come up with Brian Fuentes then? fuentes has blown 9 saves when hes been the closer for the rockies over the past 2 seasons. he also had 164 ks to 60 bbs in the time. i don't get where your calling him downright terrible lately.
November 2, 200619 yr I dont want Borowski back i'm with you on that now on paying gagne $4 mil ... hmmm ... :mischief2
November 2, 200619 yr Foulke, dotel are two guys needing a starting over down here perhaps I was going to say Dotel..good choice. Any of these guys depending on their asking price and willingness to sign are good gambles: Gagne, Dotel, Foulke, Kolb, and a few others. There's been talk in the papers about bringing Benitez back through trade. Sounds good to me. oh yeah, I saw the WSox declined his option. I would be down with the Benitez talk as long as he is healthy. He has barely pitched for SF. I thought he was more dominant than Jones and Borowski.
November 2, 200619 yr Nooooooo...no more Benitez plz, I would rather have Mota wih his 50 game suspension! Gagne at 2.5 million would be OK with me
November 2, 200619 yr Um...yeah, we ain't getting any of those guys, not even Borowsky Yeah, but we might get Borowski. I hear he's just as good as Borowsky. :|
November 3, 200619 yr We all know that the last years pen was the reason for the team's collapse down the stretch, but I actually think that in the 07 season we can actually have decent middle relief. Here's who I think who should be the 6 in the pen not including closer due to a closer tread already existing. RP Reynel Pinto RP Yusmiero Petit RP Chris Resop RP Jose Garcia RP Chris Volstad SU Taylor Tankersley and in late 07 hopefully DL Carlos Martinez DL Logan Kensing So how do you think next year's middle relief will shape up with realistic trades, signups, and callups?
November 3, 200619 yr We all know that the last years pen was the reason for the team's collapse down the stretch, but I actually think that in the 07 season we can actually have decent middle relief. Here's who I think who should be the 6 in the pen not including closer due to a closer tread already existing. RP Reynel Pinto RP Yusmiero Petit RP Chris Resop RP Jose Garcia RP Chris Volstad SU Taylor Tankersley and in late 07 hopefully DL Carlos Martinez DL Logan Kensing So how do you think next year's middle relief will shape up with realistic trades, signups, and callups? Volstad isnt realistic, KMart and Logan wont be a boost till 2008
November 3, 200619 yr We all know that the last years pen was the reason for the team's collapse down the stretch, but I actually think that in the 07 season we can actually have decent middle relief. Here's who I think who should be the 6 in the pen not including closer due to a closer tread already existing. RP Reynel Pinto RP Yusmiero Petit RP Chris Resop RP Jose Garcia RP Chris Volstad SU Taylor Tankersley and in late 07 hopefully DL Carlos Martinez DL Logan Kensing So how do you think next year's middle relief will shape up with realistic trades, signups, and callups? No way you see Volstad, Kensing or Petit in the pen next season. Petit will be in the rotation or in the minors, Volstad'll be lucky to get above AA (no fault of his) and Kensing's surgery was so late in the year, there's no way he's back next season.
November 3, 200619 yr Unless we bring in some outside help, I'd expect Messenger there in that spot for Volstad.
November 3, 200619 yr Messenger will be in our bullpen, Jose Garcia will not if anything he will go to Carolina. Petit might go to triple A. Lets see what he shows in ST. I believe Resop will earn a spot, I am very much rooting on Harvey Garcia as a setup guy. Pinto has anchored a spot in the bullpen already. A name everyone is ignoring that has a very good chance of earning a bullpen spot is Scott Tyler Taylor Tankersley LHP Randy Messenger RHP Reynel Pinto LHP Chris Resop RHP Harvey Garcia RHP Scott Tyler RHP other names to throw in the mix... Yusmeiro Petit RHP Sergio Mitre RHP Daniel Barone RHP Rick Vanden Hurk RHP (watch this kid closely)
November 3, 200619 yr possible relievers for 07 Randy Messenger Ben Julianel Nic Ungs Chris Resop Jose Garcia Ricky Nolasco Reynel Pinto Taylor Tankersley Yusmeiro Petit Jason Vargas Franklyn German (not sure of his status with club) Nate Bump (not sure of injury status) Scott Tyler Jeff Fulchino Gaby Hernandez Chris Young Matt Yourkin Harvey Garcia Jacob Marceaux Jesus Delgado Sergio Mitre Travis Bowyer Logan Kensing Carlos Martinez i suspect at least one trade to be made moving at least one of the following pitchers mitre petit nolasco jose garcia rotation (ok i view 4/5s of the rotation as locks right now that could change in the spring) willis olsen sanchez johnson TBD TBD spot possibilities (depends on spring training performance imo. these guys could end up in the bullpen also) mitre (alot of you hate him but he was the most consistent starter in april. he left his second start in may because of an injury. if we see him pitching consistently like he was before the injury he will make the team and could wind up in the rotation) petit (if he has good defense behind him in DS, he could be very productive. this year was an off-year expect him to bounce back if hes getting innings and not traviling to albuquerque and back as much) nolasco (i'm not sold on him being a consistent starter and depending on what vet relievers are signed, i might want him in the bullpen even if he is the best starting option at the moment) jose garcia (dominated this past season big possibility) gaby hernandez (real longshot to be in the rotation to start the year but he could be up midseason. i dont like the fact hes not pitched that many innings in one season so i would like to see him as a late callup to help the bullpen and log his innings in the minors and be ready for 08 unless hes being lights out) bullpen harvey garcia (i see him being able to make the jump to the bigs depending on what vets are signed/invited to ST. has good stuff) tank (obvious) ungs (can log innings. needs to make his debut eventually) messenger (ok i hate him but he was effective for some outings this year) pinto (dominated in september. i view him as never developing the control to start but he could become a very effective reliever resop (was effective this year. only started pitching in 03 so hes still learning) DL Travis Bowyer Logan Kensing Carlos Martinez guys mentioned above as possibilities Ben Julianel - could make the team but i don't see it happening. Jason Vargas - needs to grow his hair back out and maybe he will start pitching well again. ok i dont see him as a bullpen guy because of his bat Franklyn German - ok he may have been released not looking that up right now Nate Bump - not many people here like the guy but he was effective in the majors. i dont have the info on his injury that kept him from pitching alot this season Scott Tyler - i'm not seeing him effective in the majors Jeff Fulchino - same type of player as ungs Matt Yourkin - never seen him pitch or heard enough about him- possibility Chris Young - same as yourkin Jacob Marceaux - midseason ? Jesus Delgado - midseason ?
November 3, 200619 yr Messenger will be in our bullpen, Jose Garcia will not if anything he will go to Carolina. Petit might go to triple A. Lets see what he shows in ST. I believe Resop will earn a spot, I am very much rooting on Harvey Garcia as a setup guy. Pinto has anchored a spot in the bullpen already. A name everyone is ignoring that has a very good chance of earning a bullpen spot is Scott Tyler Taylor Tankersley LHP Randy Messenger RHP Reynel Pinto LHP Chris Resop RHP Harvey Garcia RHP Scott Tyler RHP other names to throw in the mix... Yusmeiro Petit RHP Sergio Mitre RHP Daniel Barone RHP Rick Vanden Hurk RHP (watch this kid closely) why in the hell would jose garcia "if anything" go back to AA?
November 3, 200619 yr I'd sooner figure Vargas into the bullpen than Mitre. Just my personal opinion, even though both struggled bad in the pen and are naturally starters. Some people might be concerned about having 3 LHP in the pen, but looking at Tank & Pinto, I think it would only be a question of if Vargas can pull it together. Also, 2 of our division rivals (Mets & Phillies) are really centered/dependent on big Lefty bats w/ a few switch hitters. A good group of LHPs leading to the closer might not be the worst thing.
November 3, 200619 yr See I don't care what's good for Joe Borowski. I care what's good for the Marlins and in my opinion his services weren't that valuable. OK, how many closers did better in 06 that were in the same price range? That means nothing to me because I think a prospect making the league minimum could have done the job Borowski did. It is ridiculous how overpaid the ninth inning guy is. Maybe you should be the GM then, so you can find that prospect.
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