Loria not promising superstars will stay

By Tom D'Angelo

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Sunday, March 04, 2007

 

JUPITER ? Owner Jeffrey Loria praised stars Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera as his team leaders Saturday but stopped short of saying both would be in a Marlins uniform in September.

 

"Guaranteeing they'll be here at the end of the year? I don't even want to ... " Loria said. "I never answer those types of questions."

 

 

Loria, appearing at camp for the first time this spring, touched on several subjects, including upgrading this team for the season.

 

The Marlins, still one of the youngest teams in the league with an overabundance of starting pitching throughout the organization, have glaring holes in center field and at the back end of the bullpen.

 

"We keep our eyes open," Loria said. "We keep looking to see what will make a good match for us.

 

"The one or two places we have to fill, they'll eventually be filled in some fashion."

 

Cabrera and Willis will cost the club $13.85 million, more than half of the expected on-field payroll of approximately $25 million.

 

Although the Marlins will once again field the cheapest team in baseball, Loria did not rule out adding players in July, as he did in 2003, if the Marlins surprise again.

 

"Let's see where we are (in) July," he said. "You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do then and we'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

The Marlins were in the wild-card race until the final weeks of last season with a team that used 22 rookies. The team returns the same nucleus with the exception of first-year manager Fredi Gonzalez, who replaces the fired Joe Girardi.

 

"Essentially this is the team we had last year, but they've had a year of experience to grow and develop," Loria said. "And the growth, you can sense it, you can feel it."

 

Loria praised Gonzalez for being "levelheaded" and "straightforward." He said the two speak several times a week.

 

Concerning Girardi, who was at odds with Loria from spring training throughout last season, Loria said: "I moved on, it's history."

 

Of more recent history was the discovery last week that Girardi offered tips to Phillies pitcher Jon Lieber in late July, helping turn around Lieber's season, including two crucial victories over the Marlins during the wild-card race.

 

"It was unfortunate, but that's history and I don't want to talk about history," Loria said.

 

He also addressed the ongoing stadium issue.

 

"I was really optimistic last year but whatever happened, happened," Loria said. "I'm cautiously optimistic this year."

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...loria_0304.html

 

Blah.

Nice of Tom to put words in his mouth. If you actually read what he said you realize by the use of "..." you don't know what the rest of the thought was, or the context of the phrase.

 

Interestingly, no other reporter in any of today's papers (or wire services for that matter) came to the same conclusion as the D'Angelo of what Loria said at his saturday press conference. See SunSen and MHerald and you'll find no mention of such an alleged comment, and certainly neither Phillips nor Rodriguez could ever be confused with a Loria ally.

 

BTW, has anyone noticed the Herald "lost" Kevin Baxter to the LA Times? If you were waiting for mention in the MH don't hold your breath, like the Baltimore Colts he just disappeared into the night.

Nice of Tom to put words in his mouth. If you actually read what he said you realize by the use of "..." you don't know what the rest of the thought was, or the context of the phrase.

 

Interestingly, no other reporter in any of today's papers (or wire services for that matter) came to the same conclusion as the D'Angelo of what Loria said at his saturday press conference. See SunSen and MHerald and you'll find no mention of such an alleged comment, and certainly neither Phillips nor Rodriguez could ever be confused with a Loria ally.

 

BTW, has anyone noticed the Herald "lost" Kevin Baxter to the LA Times? If you were waiting for mention in the MH don't hold your breath, like the Baltimore Colts he just disappeared into the night.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but Loria said:

 

"Guaranteeing they'll be here at the end of the year? I don't even want to ... " Loria said. "I never answer those types of questions."

 

"Let's see where we are (in) July," he said. "You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do then and we'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

Those aren't great quotes if you're hoping the team will keep these guys past this September. The bottom line is that Cabs and Willis aren't FAs at the end of this year, so there is no need to get rid of them unless you do not plan to keep them long-term, which should have NOTHING to do with how this year plays out (unless of course these players simply stop performing, which is doubtful). If Loria gets a stadium deal in place before September, there will be an uproar if he trades either of these players and continues to have the (by far) lowest payroll in the league. These are questions any owner should feel comfortable answering, particularly if they could say "well, let's see how the stadium talks are progressing," which he didn't.

For once in Loria's life would it hurt him to keep his f***ing mouth shut instead of stirring the pot? Such a douche.

Del, honestly what happened was (I surmise) he was asked the age old question ("Are Willis and Cabrera going to be....[fillintheblank]") and instinctively he started to answer it, caught himself, and D'Angelo lept at the opportunity to stir up some controversy. When not a single other source there reports this you have to think it would be like you or I have a momentary case of the stutters over a word and then having a reporter suggest we have a speech impediment.

Here's the Sun Sentinel version with, I might mention, no mention of the Cabrera/Willis allegation, and with a further explanation of his "July" comments, which were it turns out in the context of adding payroll:

 

Loria won't revisit the past

 

Owner upbeat about Gonzalez, mum on ballpark

 

By Juan C. Rodriguez

South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Posted March 4 2007

 

JUPITER -- The parking space closest to the Marlins' Roger Dean Stadium offices had been vacant all spring. Saturday, the familiar red Corvette convertible pulled in.

 

Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria flew in from New York and arrived in time for his first Grapefruit League game, an 8-1 Marlins loss to the Cardinals. Afterward, Loria made his first public comments since the club's managerial change in October.

 

Loria was not present when the Marlins announced the firing of Joe Girardi and hiring of Fredi Gonzalez. After an Aug. 6 postgame blowup between owner and manager, Loria never gave Girardi a public endorsement. About a week before the season ended, Girardi's lame-duck status became public.

 

Saturday, Loria had no interest rehashing how or why the relationship with the man he hand-picked a year earlier to be his field general fractured after a surprisingly good season.

 

"It was unfortunate, but that's history, and I don't want to talk about history," Loria said. "Most people that I came in contact with [during the offseason] approached it the same way I did. It's yesterday's news. It happened. It's done. We moved on."

 

Not even the recent scuttlebutt about Girardi giving Phillies pitcher and former teammate Jon Lieber tips last season prompted much of a reaction. Loria termed the incident "unfortunate" before reiterating his desire to look ahead.

 

Loria and the Marlins moved quickly to lock up Gonzalez, seeking and receiving permission from the Braves to speak with him before the season ended. No one had to convince Loria that Gonzalez would be a worthy replacement.

 

The two got to know each other in 2005 when Gonzalez interviewed for the manager's job and essentially finished second to Girardi.

 

"I met him a year ago and I was very impressed," Loria said. "When the time came to do something he was our No. 1 choice and that was it. Fredi's time has come. ... He's got a great baseball mind and he relates very well with these players."

 

Girardi wasn't the only subject Loria for the most part left untouched. In spite of the recent promising developments in the efforts to build a new ballpark, all Loria said was he remained "optimistic."

 

Earlier this week, Miami-Dade County leaders revealed a financing plan for a $490 million, 37,000-seat retractable roof stadium in downtown Miami. Though it requires a $30 million tax break from the state, new Governor Charlie Crist has expressed public support for a new ballpark.

 

"I don't really want to talk about the political machinations that go on, but I can tell you we're optimistic," Loria said.

 

"I was really optimistic last year, but whatever happened, happened. I'm cautiously optimistic this year. I think we have a chance to do something special for the community, and I'm dedicated to try to get that done."

 

Among the other issues Loria addressed Saturday:

 

Last season's unexpected success: "I was pleasantly surprised, but the talent was there. ... They're hungry. They play with a lot of joy and enthusiasm, and frankly that's what makes teams exciting to watch."

 

Adding players to fill needs: "We keep our eyes open. We keep looking to see what will make a good match for us, but we just don't jump into deals for the idea of doing a deal. It's got to make sense. We'll get there. The one or two places we have to fill, they'll eventually be filled in some fashion."

 

Adding payroll at the trading deadline: "Let's see where we are at the end of July or early July or mid July. You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do [in 2003]. We'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spmarlins04mar04,0,2455957.story?coll=sfla-sports-headlines

 

Or the Miami Herald version:

 

 

Loria 'pleased' with new manager

 

Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said he put the Joe Girardi situation in the past and is excited having Fredi Gonzalez as manager.

 

BY MIKE PHILLIPS

 

JUPITER - There were no predictions about the playoffs or a new ball park from Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria, who showed up to see his team play Saturday and spoke to the media for the first time since last season.

 

And no looking back either from Loria, who said the firing of former Marlins manager Joe Girardi was ``history.''

 

Girardi made headlines recently when Phillies pitcher Jon Lieber revealed that Girardi, an old friend and battery mate, had given him tips last season after Lieber had pitched against the Marlins.

 

Loria, who had a well-publicized feud with Girardi last season, had little to say about the incident: ''It was unfortunate, but that's history and I don't want to talk about the history,'' he said.

 

Loria believes his new manager Fredi Gonzalez is the right man to take this team to the next level.

 

''He's terrific,'' Loria said. ``He's from Miami and he's an exciting young guy. He's very level-headed and we're all very pleased to have him on board.''

 

Loria said the thing that impressed him the most about Gonzalez was ``his straightforwardness.''

 

``I met him a year ago, and I was very impressed. And so when it came time for us to do something, he was our No. 1 choice and that was it.

 

''Fredi's time has come. He's got some pretty talented players to work with, and we're very happy he's here,'' said Loria, who has had four managers as he begins his sixth year as Marlins owner. Loria didn't want to field questions about Girardi, saying he put that behind him at the end of last season.

 

''It's way behind me, and way behind everybody in the organization. We've moved forward and Fredi is terrific,'' he said. ``He's got a great baseball mind. He's dedicated and obviously as you know he relates very well with these players. Having been in the Marlins organization, he's had that managerial experience and we couldn't be happier.''

 

Reportedly, one of Girardi's downfalls was a lack of communication with ownership. Loria said he and Gonzalez talk several times a week.

 

COMMUNICATING WELL

 

''We talk all the time,'' Loria said. ``If he has a question he calls me. If I have something I want to ask him about, I call him. There are no set rules. There's a tremendous amount of communication with Fred and everybody else in the organization, and that's what organizations are supposed to be about.''

 

With the recent support from Gov. Charlie Crist and Tallahassee, Loria might be closer to getting a new ballpark than either Wayne Huizenga or John Henry, the former owners of the team.

 

''I've talked to both owners, and I don't really want to disclose what they had to say because I'm my own man,'' Loria said. ``I think we have a chance to do something special for the community, and I'm dedicated to trying to get that done.''

 

''I'm very optimistic, and that's really all I can say. I'm optimistic and let's see what happens,'' he said. ``I was really optimistic last year, and whatever happened happened, and I am cautiously optimistic this year, too.''

 

Loria's Marlins will once again have the smallest payroll in baseball -- about $28 million, and there are two holes to fill -- the closer role and center field. The Marlins believe they can fill both with the players they have, but Loria said Saturday they would be filled -- even if they have to trade to upgrade the team.

 

``We keep our eyes open. We keep looking to see what will make a good match for us. We don't just jump into deals. It's got to make sense. We'll get there. The one or two places where we have to fill, they will eventually be filled in some fashion.''

 

Loria traded prospects, spent money and made mid-season trades in 2003 that helped the Marlins' drive to the World Series title. Loria hinted that he might do it again.

 

WAIT AND SEE

 

''Let's see where we are at the end of July or in mid-July,'' he said. ``You know my enthusiasm for this team and community. I don't even think you have to ask me that question. We did what we had to do then, and we will see where we are and make those decisions then.''

 

Loria also faces the problems of convincing people to come to Dolphin Stadium to watch his team: The Marlins had the lowest attendance in the majors last year.

 

'I think this city is one of those situations where it's, `Show me, prove it to me first, and then I'll jump on the bandwagon,' '' Loria said. ``That's why I say this is going to be a big, fun year for Marlins fans.''

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/591/story/30701.html

 

I don't know but to me reading two other accounts of the same press conference without even a hint of a concern regarding Willis/Cabrera says to me the writer heard what he wanted to hear and wrote what he wanted to write regardless of the context inwhich things were said.

Del, honestly what happened was (I surmise) he was asked the age old question ("Are Willis and Cabrera going to be....[fillintheblank]") and instinctively he started to answer it, caught himself, and D'Angelo lept at the opportunity to stir up some controversy. When not a single other source there reports this you have to think it would be like you or I have a momentary case of the stutters over a word and then having a reporter suggest we have a speech impediment.

wow...the difference between the sun-sentinel article and the herald's quote:

 

Adding payroll at the trading deadline: "Let's see where we are at the end of July or early July or mid July. You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do [in 2003]. We'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

is absolutely criminal. Good catch 2003.

Del, honestly what happened was (I surmise) he was asked the age old question ("Are Willis and Cabrera going to be....[fillintheblank]") and instinctively he started to answer it, caught himself, and D'Angelo lept at the opportunity to stir up some controversy. When not a single other source there reports this you have to think it would be like you or I have a momentary case of the stutters over a word and then having a reporter suggest we have a speech impediment.

wow...the difference between the sun-sentinel article and the herald's quote:

 

Adding payroll at the trading deadline: "Let's see where we are at the end of July or early July or mid July. You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do [in 2003]. We'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

is absolutely criminal. Good catch 2003.

That was kinda of a chintzy inference and I am one of the biggest critics of Loria...I read the Herald article first. I understood that he was positive about the season and was willing to add more payroll if the Marlins were doing well in July ( I am sure attendence will be a factor). This is just bad reporting guys

wow...the difference between the sun-sentinel article and the herald's quote:

 

Adding payroll at the trading deadline: "Let's see where we are at the end of July or early July or mid July. You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do [in 2003]. We'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

is absolutely criminal. Good catch 2003.

Criminal on whose part?

 

Although the Marlins will once again field the cheapest team in baseball, Loria did not rule out adding players in July, as he did in 2003, if the Marlins surprise again.

 

"Let's see where we are (in) July," he said. "You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do then and we'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

Loria traded prospects, spent money and made mid-season trades in 2003 that helped the Marlins' drive to the World Series title. Loria hinted that he might do it again.

 

WAIT AND SEE

 

''Let's see where we are at the end of July or in mid-July,'' he said. ``You know my enthusiasm for this team and community. I don't even think you have to ask me that question. We did what we had to do then, and we will see where we are and make those decisions then.''

 

Adding payroll at the trading deadline: "Let's see where we are at the end of July or early July or mid July. You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do [in 2003]. We'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

Though they're all saying basically the same thing, it looks like the Sun Sentinel writer summarized the quote a bit overzealously.

wow...the difference between the sun-sentinel article and the herald's quote:

 

Adding payroll at the trading deadline: "Let's see where we are at the end of July or early July or mid July. You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do [in 2003]. We'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

is absolutely criminal. Good catch 2003.

Criminal on whose part?

 

Although the Marlins will once again field the cheapest team in baseball, Loria did not rule out adding players in July, as he did in 2003, if the Marlins surprise again.

 

"Let's see where we are (in) July," he said. "You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do then and we'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

Loria traded prospects, spent money and made mid-season trades in 2003 that helped the Marlins' drive to the World Series title. Loria hinted that he might do it again.

 

WAIT AND SEE

 

''Let's see where we are at the end of July or in mid-July,'' he said. ``You know my enthusiasm for this team and community. I don't even think you have to ask me that question. We did what we had to do then, and we will see where we are and make those decisions then.''

 

Adding payroll at the trading deadline: "Let's see where we are at the end of July or early July or mid July. You know my enthusiasm for this team and this community. We did what we had to do [in 2003]. We'll see where we are then and we'll make those decisions then."

 

Though they're all saying basically the same thing, it looks like the Sun Sentinel writer summarized the quote a bit overzealously.

I just meant that the other papers quoted Loria regarding adding payroll in general, while the sun-sentinel article lead with the "not guaranteeing" Willis and Cabs are coming back, and had this question as a supposedly related follow-up question...which begs the question - which story do you think would be bigger? I'd say the "guarantee" question, which makes it questionable whether Loria's response was really all that quotable for the others to leave it out. That's all. The suntinel writer had the quote about the same, but his use of the quote as a follow-up to the "guarantee" issue is a questionable way to write the column. That's all.

It was actually the difference between the Herald and Sun Sentinel's coverage VS how it was reported in the Palm Beach Post (the original post in this thread). I think Del simply missed a comma and it doesn't read the way he meant it, although that was the comparison I believe he was making.

Take whatever darn side you want in the issue of how much profit can Loria make. As some would say, he is entitled not to lose money. Well, he isn't and he won't-but he makes more money keeping a cheap team until baseball gets together and puts some rules behind the handouts. Either side of the argument does not change a basic law of physics-LORIA IS A MINOR LEAGUE OWNER WHO IS IN WAY OVER HIS HEAD-HE CAN'T PLAY WITH THE BIG BOYS BUT HE WANTS TO.

Just like he never commented on the Delgado situation?

The Red Sox will be my new favorite team if we get rid of Miguel Cabrera. A talent like that never comes around.

Why even ask a question you know the answer to? Oh wait, I know. Because the publishing the answer benefits everyone. It allows Loria to make the case for a new stadium, it allows the press to sell papers, it allows the ownership's critics confirmation to their suspicions, it allows fans to recognize Cabrera and other star's importance.

The Red Sox will be my new favorite team if we get rid of Miguel Cabrera. A talent like that never comes around.

No Stadium, No Cabrera.

 

Simple as that.

I really cant see DTrain being here next year with all the pitching we have. He would get us a lot in return. But I get the feeling that we will do whatever it takes to keep Cabrera year by year until we get a stdium.

The Red Sox will be my new favorite team if we get rid of Miguel Cabrera. A talent like that never comes around.

 

 

The Sox have always been my 2nd favorite team because my girl is from Boston and I've never had a problem with trading talent in the past. I wouldn't mind dealing Willis either but losing a talent like Cabrera, who is a franchise player is ridiculous and cheap for an organization.

The Red Sox will be my new favorite team if we get rid of Miguel Cabrera. A talent like that never comes around.

 

 

The Sox have always been my 2nd favorite team because my girl is from Boston and I've never had a problem with trading talent in the past. I wouldn't mind dealing Willis either but losing a talent like Cabrera, who is a franchise player is ridiculous and cheap for an organization.

So because we have a cheap owner, you're going to stop being a fan?

I agree with Wildmarlins, but I'll never stop being a Marlins fan.

I really cant see DTrain being here next year with all the pitching we have. He would get us a lot in return. But I get the feeling that we will do whatever it takes to keep Cabrera year by year until we get a stdium.

 

That would be a shame, but probably right on. D train is special, but as a pitcher and with what we have up and down the system in arms-he will be a luxury Loria wont or cant afford. Miggy is, as everyone seems to agree, a rare player. You just have to find a way to keep him long term.

Just like he never commented on the Delgado situation?

That's exactly what I thought.

Take whatever darn side you want in the issue of how much profit can Loria make. As some would say, he is entitled not to lose money. Well, he isn't and he won't-but he makes more money keeping a cheap team until baseball gets together and puts some rules behind the handouts. Either side of the argument does not change a basic law of physics-LORIA IS A MINOR LEAGUE OWNER WHO IS IN WAY OVER HIS HEAD-HE CAN'T PLAY WITH THE BIG BOYS BUT HE WANTS TO.

 

So to be a Major League owner you have to be willing to put money into your team from your own pocket?

That's reasonable.

Take whatever darn side you want in the issue of how much profit can Loria make. As some would say, he is entitled not to lose money. Well, he isn't and he won't-but he makes more money keeping a cheap team until baseball gets together and puts some rules behind the handouts. Either side of the argument does not change a basic law of physics-LORIA IS A MINOR LEAGUE OWNER WHO IS IN WAY OVER HIS HEAD-HE CAN'T PLAY WITH THE BIG BOYS BUT HE WANTS TO.

 

So to be a Major League owner you have to be willing to put money into your team from your own pocket?

That's reasonable.

 

yes, because when you own a business, you dont just sit back and use the sh*t other people give you.