May 3, 200719 yr I agree his control is MIA, not the stuff he had last year, will he be the one sent down to make room with the rotation? Nah, zero chance of that happening. Olsen looked like garbage too & he seems to be slowly turning it around. Gotta give these young guys time. Olsen does seem to have adjusted well after a rough start. I'm not so sure Anibal can adjust this season. Thats not to say I think this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us as a Marlin. But I think how he is pitching right now is much closer to what we can expect from him in the future than what we saw last season. Hie velocity is down, he can't locate his breaking ball, and his stuff has less bite to it. There hasn't been too noticeable a drop in his velocity, but then again he never was a fireballer - or at least since his callup to the Marlins. He has left a number of breaking balls hanging, I'll give you that. And his control in general has left something to be desired. He's been throwing much more in the high 80s than in the low to mid 90s. Anyway, we'll never know unless he does go in the DL in the near future It is a big leap to say he is injured because there is a 1 mph drop in the speed of his average fastball so far this season to last, he is having control problems and there is a slightly less movement in his pitches so far. Do you think the Marlins would keep throwing out a guy as intregal to our staff as Anibal, one that had a HUGE workload increase last season, if he were injured? I would say it's about a 3 or 4 mph drop. Last year he was usually 91-93 sometimes 94. This year it's usually high 80s. That is a little bit of exaggertation, though I admit I was probably underscoring the decrease a bit. Last year, I would say his average was in the 90-92 range. This season he is on average somewhere between 88-90. Still, not extremely significant and not suprising considering how hard the Marlins worked him last year.
May 3, 200719 yr I agree his control is MIA, not the stuff he had last year, will he be the one sent down to make room with the rotation? Nah, zero chance of that happening. Olsen looked like garbage too & he seems to be slowly turning it around. Gotta give these young guys time. Olsen does seem to have adjusted well after a rough start. I'm not so sure Anibal can adjust this season. Thats not to say I think this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us as a Marlin. But I think how he is pitching right now is much closer to what we can expect from him in the future than what we saw last season. Then you are saying that this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us, because if what we see now is a more fair indicator than what we have seen in the past, he must be representative of what we're going to get in the future. And personally, I think that's just crazy. There's something clearly wrong with Anibal physically, and given his huge IP bump 2005-2006, I'm not the least bit surprised.
May 3, 200719 yr Author You said the elbow thing a few times in the game thread. I'm assuming this is something you've heard or is it a feeling? nothing concrete though If they've been talking about a possible elbow problem why the hell was he pitching? Why wouldn't they check him out if there are these concerns flyign around? His command is MIA and his fastball is slower than last year's. it's what some people believe... but there is no evidence of it as of this posting If these people are in the organization then it's ridiculous for him to continue pitching without getting the elbow checked-out. They aren't.
May 3, 200719 yr I agree his control is MIA, not the stuff he had last year, will he be the one sent down to make room with the rotation? Nah, zero chance of that happening. Olsen looked like garbage too & he seems to be slowly turning it around. Gotta give these young guys time. Olsen does seem to have adjusted well after a rough start. I'm not so sure Anibal can adjust this season. Thats not to say I think this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us as a Marlin. But I think how he is pitching right now is much closer to what we can expect from him in the future than what we saw last season. Then you are saying that this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us, because if what we see now is a more fair indicator than what we have seen in the past, he must be representative of what we're going to get in the future. And personally, I think that's just crazy. There's something clearly wrong with Anibal physically, and given his huge IP bump 2005-2006, I'm not the least bit surprised. Not so crazy. I agree he is feeling the effects of the workload he had last season. But I think much of his success came from his newness to the league and hitters unfamiliarity with him. When he does recover that 2mph on his fastball and get back to pitching where he was next season I just don't see him becoming the pitcher of 2006. Anibal strikes me as being a pitcher who will give us, if all things work out, 200+ IP, a 3.90-4.40 ERA, 13-16 wins per season, a few more hits than IP, and around 70BB/150K. Very respectable numbers and definitely a valuable member of our rotation. But I see him as being behind Dontrelle, Olsen and Johnson as far as long term projectability go.
May 3, 200719 yr Author On a random note, I found out tonight that Beinfest and Co actually wanted Manny Delcarmen instead of Anibal Sanchez in the Josh Beckett deal. Pretty weird to say the least.
May 3, 200719 yr I agree his control is MIA, not the stuff he had last year, will he be the one sent down to make room with the rotation? Nah, zero chance of that happening. Olsen looked like garbage too & he seems to be slowly turning it around. Gotta give these young guys time. Olsen does seem to have adjusted well after a rough start. I'm not so sure Anibal can adjust this season. Thats not to say I think this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us as a Marlin. But I think how he is pitching right now is much closer to what we can expect from him in the future than what we saw last season. Then you are saying that this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us, because if what we see now is a more fair indicator than what we have seen in the past, he must be representative of what we're going to get in the future. And personally, I think that's just crazy. There's something clearly wrong with Anibal physically, and given his huge IP bump 2005-2006, I'm not the least bit surprised. Not so crazy. I agree he is feeling the effects of the workload he had last season. But I think much of his success came from his newness to the league and hitters unfamiliarity with him. When he does recover that 2mph on his fastball and get back to pitching where he was next season I just don't see him becoming the pitcher of 2006. Anibal strikes me as being a pitcher who will give us, if all things work out, 200+ IP, a 3.90-4.40 ERA, 13-16 wins per season, a few more hits than IP, and around 70BB/150K. Very respectable numbers and definitely a valuable member of our rotation. But I see him as being behind Dontrelle, Olsen and Johnson as far as long term projectability go. Anibal would have to channel Pedro Martinez to be the pitcher we saw last season over a full year. Anibal, age considered, has the most polished repertoire of pitches on the staff. His fastball and curve are legitimate "out" pitches. His 2 seamer is good when it's on (ask Arizona) and his changeup is good enough. Olsen's slider may be the single best pitch on the staff, but he's a 2 pitch guy (even if I do love his upside), Willis is huge hit or miss and JJ is an anomaly to me. He's like a lesser Brad Penny...power curve, fastball, downward plane delivery, but none of those pitches seem to be "plus" pitches...FWIW, I think Nolasco's got a better two pitch combo with his curve and fastball than anything JJ has. JJ's the one guy I'm not sold on at all, but that's not the issue at hand. On a random note, I found out tonight that Beinfest and Co actually wanted Manny Delcarmen instead of Anibal Sanchez in the Josh Beckett deal. Pretty weird to say the least. I thought Lester was the #1 and then we wanted Delcarmen in addition when it was moved to Sanchez instead...?
May 3, 200719 yr On a random note, I found out tonight that Beinfest and Co actually wanted Manny Delcarmen instead of Anibal Sanchez in the Josh Beckett deal. Pretty weird to say the least. :blink: I am glad they came to their senses. JJ's the one guy I'm not sold on at all' date=' but that's not the issue at hand.[/quote'] Say what you want, but he has been pretty consistent across every level.
May 3, 200719 yr I agree his control is MIA, not the stuff he had last year, will he be the one sent down to make room with the rotation? Nah, zero chance of that happening. Olsen looked like garbage too & he seems to be slowly turning it around. Gotta give these young guys time. Olsen does seem to have adjusted well after a rough start. I'm not so sure Anibal can adjust this season. Thats not to say I think this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us as a Marlin. But I think how he is pitching right now is much closer to what we can expect from him in the future than what we saw last season. Then you are saying that this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us, because if what we see now is a more fair indicator than what we have seen in the past, he must be representative of what we're going to get in the future. And personally, I think that's just crazy. There's something clearly wrong with Anibal physically, and given his huge IP bump 2005-2006, I'm not the least bit surprised. Not so crazy. I agree he is feeling the effects of the workload he had last season. But I think much of his success came from his newness to the league and hitters unfamiliarity with him. When he does recover that 2mph on his fastball and get back to pitching where he was next season I just don't see him becoming the pitcher of 2006. Anibal strikes me as being a pitcher who will give us, if all things work out, 200+ IP, a 3.90-4.40 ERA, 13-16 wins per season, a few more hits than IP, and around 70BB/150K. Very respectable numbers and definitely a valuable member of our rotation. But I see him as being behind Dontrelle, Olsen and Johnson as far as long term projectability go. Anibal would have to channel Pedro Martinez to be the pitcher we saw last season over a full year. Anibal, age considered, has the most polished repertoire of pitches on the staff. His fastball and curve are legitimate "out" pitches. His 2 seamer is good when it's on (ask Arizona) and his changeup is good enough. Olsen's slider may be the single best pitch on the staff, but he's a 2 pitch guy (even if I do love his upside), Willis is huge hit or miss and JJ is an anomaly to me. He's like a lesser Brad Penny...power curve, fastball, downward plane delivery, but none of those pitches seem to be "plus" pitches...FWIW, I think Nolasco's got a better two pitch combo with his curve and fastball than anything JJ has. JJ's the one guy I'm not sold on at all, but that's not the issue at hand. Anibal has a decent repetroire, but nothing really overpowering. Brining up Pedro is really a non sequitur. My point is what we are seeing this season is closer to what we can expect in future seasons than what we saw in 2006. The rest of the staff doesn't really matter as far as this discussion goes. I just bring it up as an aside. But since you mention them.... Olsen is definitely not the best pitcher on the staff right now. The potential is there, but I don't see him stepping up and being our best this season. Dontrelle remains the ace of our squad this season and I don't see that changing this year since JJ's injury. As far as Johnson goes, his two-seamer/sinker is definitely a plus pitch and his slider is just about there. His changeup was/is more developed than any of last years rookies. But to bring it back to Anibal - what do you think we can expect from him for the rest of this season and the years to come?
May 3, 200719 yr I listened to the radio broadcast yesterday (roxy and dave) and roxy brought up a great point..."last year he showed no fear pitching against the yankees in his first start and also against roger clemans. This year he doesn't seem to be going after hitters the same way he did last year". So the only reason he would be more "afraid" to go after hitters would be if he knew his stuff wasn't up to par. He could have tendonitis coupled with that line drive off his push off leg. Between the Marlins and the Yankees they could fill a whole 40 man roster with all the players injured...
May 3, 200719 yr Author On a random note, I found out tonight that Beinfest and Co actually wanted Manny Delcarmen instead of Anibal Sanchez in the Josh Beckett deal. Pretty weird to say the least. I thought Lester was the #1 and then we wanted Delcarmen in addition when it was moved to Sanchez instead...? Sorry, I meant they wanted Lester first, but once they were turned down apparently they wanted Delcarmen instead of Anibal
May 3, 200719 yr I agree with PBC's description of the type of pitcher we can expect Sanchez to become. He'll probably end up a solid #3 starter. His fastball is average, the curve is slightly above average and his change is ok.
May 3, 200719 yr I agree his control is MIA, not the stuff he had last year, will he be the one sent down to make room with the rotation? Nah, zero chance of that happening. Olsen looked like garbage too & he seems to be slowly turning it around. Gotta give these young guys time. Olsen does seem to have adjusted well after a rough start. I'm not so sure Anibal can adjust this season. Thats not to say I think this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us as a Marlin. But I think how he is pitching right now is much closer to what we can expect from him in the future than what we saw last season. Then you are saying that this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us, because if what we see now is a more fair indicator than what we have seen in the past, he must be representative of what we're going to get in the future. And personally, I think that's just crazy. There's something clearly wrong with Anibal physically, and given his huge IP bump 2005-2006, I'm not the least bit surprised. Not so crazy. I agree he is feeling the effects of the workload he had last season. But I think much of his success came from his newness to the league and hitters unfamiliarity with him. When he does recover that 2mph on his fastball and get back to pitching where he was next season I just don't see him becoming the pitcher of 2006. Anibal strikes me as being a pitcher who will give us, if all things work out, 200+ IP, a 3.90-4.40 ERA, 13-16 wins per season, a few more hits than IP, and around 70BB/150K. Very respectable numbers and definitely a valuable member of our rotation. But I see him as being behind Dontrelle, Olsen and Johnson as far as long term projectability go. Anibal would have to channel Pedro Martinez to be the pitcher we saw last season over a full year. Anibal, age considered, has the most polished repertoire of pitches on the staff. His fastball and curve are legitimate "out" pitches. His 2 seamer is good when it's on (ask Arizona) and his changeup is good enough. Olsen's slider may be the single best pitch on the staff, but he's a 2 pitch guy (even if I do love his upside), Willis is huge hit or miss and JJ is an anomaly to me. He's like a lesser Brad Penny...power curve, fastball, downward plane delivery, but none of those pitches seem to be "plus" pitches...FWIW, I think Nolasco's got a better two pitch combo with his curve and fastball than anything JJ has. JJ's the one guy I'm not sold on at all, but that's not the issue at hand. Anibal has a decent repetroire, but nothing really overpowering. Brining up Pedro is really a non sequitur. My point is what we are seeing this season is closer to what we can expect in future seasons than what we saw in 2006. The rest of the staff doesn't really matter as far as this discussion goes. I just bring it up as an aside. But since you mention them.... Olsen is definitely not the best pitcher on the staff right now. The potential is there, but I don't see him stepping up and being our best this season. Dontrelle remains the ace of our squad this season and I don't see that changing this year since JJ's injury. As far as Johnson goes, his two-seamer/sinker is definitely a plus pitch and his slider is just about there. His changeup was/is more developed than any of last years rookies. But to bring it back to Anibal - what do you think we can expect from him for the rest of this season and the years to come? Well, this season I think we can expect at least one DL stint, again not to beat a dead horse, because that IP bump he had last year is just red-flag huge. Going forward I think Sanchez is a consistent Mike Mussina type pitcher. He can locate 4 pitches, 2 of which are plus one of which is no worse than average (again, when healthy because I truly believe he is not right now) and he's more likely to keep you in a ball game than take you out of it. To me, that's more than can be said for a lot of our guys who are either unhittable or batting practice.
May 3, 200719 yr I agree with Swift. When healthy, Anibal can flat out pitch. He's got great control, he's got at least two plus pitches, one other pretty good pitch, and a fourth one that is average. And he's only 23. Swift is right. Dude's going to be a beast.
May 4, 200719 yr We should soon find out if he is hurt, which I highly doubt. The coaching staff has been particularly cautious with the health of the pitchers. But seeing that Anibal is a fav on these boards naturally there has to be some other reason other than his own fault at being even less than mediocre right now. Fact is, he just isn't pitching well right now. Mechanics, lack of aggression, or not adjusting to the adjustments. Whatever. But hey. What went unnoticed the last two games is that Hanley just did an 0-fer 10. Must be hurt. Why are they sending him out there hurt?? With Mitre coming back Saturday this is the perfect opportunity to send Sanchez down to work on his stuff. Obie would be the next most likely to make room for Mitre, IMO, but he looked fine coming out of the pen Wed. At least he was throwing strikes, something Anibal can't seem to do right now.
May 4, 200719 yr Author What went unnoticed the last two games is that Hanley just did an 0-fer 10. Must be hurt. Why are they sending him out there hurt?? yea, because that makes a ton of sense :blink:
May 4, 200719 yr You know you guys laugh at the thought of him being sent down...and I think that's the problem. I can gurantee you that in his head, he believes he's earned a spot in this rotation no matter what, which is probably true. And because of that, he's not pitching his heart out. When you have nothing to gain, your mentality is different than when you have everyting to gain as he showed last year. And that's clearly visible. I'm not blaming him, I mean we can't forget he's a young guy. But he needs to clear his head and go back to the old mentality. That's just my opinion.
May 4, 200719 yr Author So your suggesting he doesn't want to win 20 games or a Cy Young or position himself for many millions of dollars in the future?
May 4, 200719 yr So your suggesting he doesn't want to win 20 games or a Cy Young or position himself for many millions of dollars in the future? Its high! Its deep! Its gone! A home run! How would the original poster explain all those other players who have locked up big time contracts that continue to excel yet don't have anything to 'prove'?
May 4, 200719 yr I agree his control is MIA, not the stuff he had last year, will he be the one sent down to make room with the rotation? Nah, zero chance of that happening. Olsen looked like garbage too & he seems to be slowly turning it around. Gotta give these young guys time. Olsen does seem to have adjusted well after a rough start. I'm not so sure Anibal can adjust this season. Thats not to say I think this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us as a Marlin. But I think how he is pitching right now is much closer to what we can expect from him in the future than what we saw last season. Then you are saying that this is the type of pitcher Anibal will be for us, because if what we see now is a more fair indicator than what we have seen in the past, he must be representative of what we're going to get in the future. And personally, I think that's just crazy. There's something clearly wrong with Anibal physically, and given his huge IP bump 2005-2006, I'm not the least bit surprised. Not so crazy. I agree he is feeling the effects of the workload he had last season. But I think much of his success came from his newness to the league and hitters unfamiliarity with him. When he does recover that 2mph on his fastball and get back to pitching where he was next season I just don't see him becoming the pitcher of 2006. Anibal strikes me as being a pitcher who will give us, if all things work out, 200+ IP, a 3.90-4.40 ERA, 13-16 wins per season, a few more hits than IP, and around 70BB/150K. Very respectable numbers and definitely a valuable member of our rotation. But I see him as being behind Dontrelle, Olsen and Johnson as far as long term projectability go. Anibal would have to channel Pedro Martinez to be the pitcher we saw last season over a full year. Anibal, age considered, has the most polished repertoire of pitches on the staff. His fastball and curve are legitimate "out" pitches. His 2 seamer is good when it's on (ask Arizona) and his changeup is good enough. Olsen's slider may be the single best pitch on the staff, but he's a 2 pitch guy (even if I do love his upside), Willis is huge hit or miss and JJ is an anomaly to me. He's like a lesser Brad Penny...power curve, fastball, downward plane delivery, but none of those pitches seem to be "plus" pitches...FWIW, I think Nolasco's got a better two pitch combo with his curve and fastball than anything JJ has. JJ's the one guy I'm not sold on at all, but that's not the issue at hand. On a random note, I found out tonight that Beinfest and Co actually wanted Manny Delcarmen instead of Anibal Sanchez in the Josh Beckett deal. Pretty weird to say the least. I thought Lester was the #1 and then we wanted Delcarmen in addition when it was moved to Sanchez instead...? I know this barely means anything, especially since I can't remember the source, either SI ESPN or USA Today WEEkly had a ask a major section. Where they ask major leaguers whos forreal and whos not. They didnt name the guy but they said of the MArlins staff, JJ is Foreal. He said his fastball just explosdes on you from the release point.
May 4, 200719 yr ok...this is real... ROSTER MOVES: RHP Anibal Sanchez optioned to Albuquerque (AAA). RHP Jorge Julio reinstated from the DL, and recalled from his rehab stint with Jupiter (A).
May 4, 200719 yr Sid Rosenberg just passed along the news that Anibal Sanchez was demoted to the minors. Haven't seen it in print yet.
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