Why does this team have a bad series almost every year either around the All-Star Break or trading deadline? The only exceptions have been 1997 and 2003, I believe.

 

This was the worst possible time for a four-game sweep, period. It makes it very unlikely that we will be buyers.

I can't believe Jorge Julio** ooops i mean Benitez gave up that HR on a 0-2 pitch.

 

 

my man just in case u may not have noticed hes done that about 20 times this year...when they called that strike two i was like "oh no" cause i knew wat benitez does 0-2.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3130

 

0 HR's on/after 0-2 counts. (Excluding today of course.)

 

i did not mean home runs. I meant base hits in general which he has given up a ton on 0-2 especially in that braves series where he had those two horrible days back to back and i was there for both.

 

If you click on the link provided, you will see that Benitez has given uo 5 hits on an 0-2 count, for a .647 OPS. This is the problem with the "Trust your eyes" crowd. You're eyes have a tendency to decieve you, because your mind has a tendency to overrate a group of failures and forget a larger group of successes.

Oh lord, I'm slightly pleased I was out hooping when this happened. I would have been speechless and in a mental coma if I saw this live. I can't imagine how the clubhouse morale must be right now, but let's try and get a sweep on the Giants. They can't hit well so hopefully, we can exploit that and liven up our bats somehow. Good grief still though.

Based on current win percentages, we'd need 88 wins to get the wild card, and to do that we'd have to go 40-19 in our remaining games. So basically we're done.

 

I actually think we could have a bunch of candidates to get traded, Benitez may still be movable seeing as the Giants are on the hook for most of his salary, and some contenders like to make moves just for the sake of making them. Its possible if Boone gets healthy at some point that he might be tradeable post deadline, similar to how we picked up Conine in 03, obviously depending on whether he made it through waivers.

 

Basically i'm all for moving Willis, Benitez, Kim, Boone, and Olivo. Kim and Boone have been good, but lets face it they'll walk after the season and we'll be too cheap to offer them arbitration so there won't be any draft picks coming back (although its doubtful Boone would qualify for compensation under the new system anyway).

 

Moving Justin Miller makes sense too, but if we dont get a good offer we can wait as he won't be a free agent for a couple more seasons yet.

I can't believe Jorge Julio** ooops i mean Benitez gave up that HR on a 0-2 pitch.

 

 

my man just in case u may not have noticed hes done that about 20 times this year...when they called that strike two i was like "oh no" cause i knew wat benitez does 0-2.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3130

 

0 HR's on/after 0-2 counts. (Excluding today of course.)

 

i did not mean home runs. I meant base hits in general which he has given up a ton on 0-2 especially in that braves series where he had those two horrible days back to back and i was there for both.

 

If you click on the link provided, you will see that Benitez has given uo 5 hits on an 0-2 count, for a .647 OPS. This is the problem with the "Trust your eyes" crowd. You're eyes have a tendency to decieve you, because your mind has a tendency to overrate a group of failures and forget a larger group of successes.

 

That's where you are wrong. No doubt alot of fans have a huge tendancy to forget the pluses and exaggerate the bad. But so do the stats guys. Just use the stats that back their thoughts and/or twist them to their meaning. I think it's more human tendancy than anything else.

And it's really not fair to group those of us that don't solely rely on stats along with the canadian's view points. We've seen his way of love turned to hate turned to love with just about every at bat. Heck, I was even compared to NYY fans on another thread simply because I am not a stats guy. But I would dare anyone to go find where I was a what have you done for me lately, last at bat, last game, or even last week type of fan. I'm no scout, but there is alot more you can see from being at the games than you can from in front of a TV and looking for all kinds of stats to back yourself up after the fact.

Personally I feel pretty comfortable with Bennie on the mound. I do wonder if maybe we used him too much when he first arrived and are now paying the price for that. His back just isn't what it was his last time here. I think we should have used other guys in the 8th besides just mainly him in that stretch where everyone was on the Bennie bandwagon. I can pretty much tell what kind of outing he is going to have when I watch him warming up in the pen (yea, I'm a pen watcher before the game and during the game). You can see if he is not comfortable. I have to wonder why Foster dosen't pass these little tidbits on (of course I'm assuming he dosen't). Just brings me back to my theory that the pen coach is one of the most under used and under appreciated coach on the squad.

That's where you are wrong. No doubt alot of fans have a huge tendancy to forget the pluses and exaggerate the bad. But so do the stats guys. Just use the stats that back their thoughts and/or twist them to their meaning. I think it's more human tendancy than anything else.

And it's really not fair to group those of us that don't solely rely on stats along with the canadian's view points. We've seen his way of love turned to hate turned to love with just about every at bat. Heck, I was even compared to NYY fans on another thread simply because I am not a stats guy. But I would dare anyone to go find where I was a what have you done for me lately, last at bat, last game, or even last week type of fan. I'm no scout, but there is alot more you can see from being at the games than you can from in front of a TV and looking for all kinds of stats to back yourself up after the fact.

 

That's complete bulls***, and you have to know that. Nobody is trying to use statistics to back up a point they've already decided on. And if they are, then they don't deserve to be listened to anyways. Anyone who knows even a little bit about real statistical analysis knows that you don't use the ends to justify your means. You draw conclusions based on both what you have seen and what the statistics tell you. If your gut tells you that Dan Uggla is the worst offensive second baseman in the league because he strikes out a lot, and the statistics don't back it up, it doesn't mean you are wrong or the statistics are wrong. It depends on what you put more stock into. I personally think statistics are a much less biased way to judge the game, because yes you can use statistics out of context to make them say what you want, but if you know what to look at and when to cite, you can come up with an extremely accurate picture of the game. These statistics aren't just pulled out of people's asses, they are studied carefully and tested thoroughly.

Take the "possibly" out of the title of this thread. That was definitely the worst, ugliest, saddest series of the year. I mean it had everything: Olsen exploding, Mitre struggling for the first time in a while, a good start by Dontrelle spoiled, Todd Linden somehow striking out 4 times in a game looking, Hanley being out etc. And we had to watch them until after midnight to see that crap.

 

Let's just sweep the Giants and make up for it.

The sweep in Washington bothered me more. At least the Diamondbacks are a pretty damn good team.

Personally, I do not like Benitez. Even when he gets outs, they are hard hits at someone. His 7 ERA means something also. REading the Frisco papers at the time of the deal, if we held out they would have taken a signed Daniel Uggla bat and a box of Florida lobsters instead of getting Messenger.

When I saw Benitez start the inning, I knew we were going to lose the game.

obviously it was the worst series this year. we just swept. The walk off rlly stung

Wonder if this series makes us sellers now, especially with JJ having another setback and Hanley missing time.

 

I'd rather shut Hanley down and let him have the surgery now and be ready for 08 if we do sell.

 

The only thing we can sell is Willis really. Boone won't attract anybody cause he's injured and Mando isn't impressing anybody.

Just-in Mil-ler clap clap clap clap clap

 

and if Boone can get healthy very soon, he will have interest

 

 

How about Kevin Gregg? We might want to keep, but I'd like to see the kind of offers we'd get considering the package it took for Linebrink.

no reason to even look to move him

 

Wouldnt his numbers come back down next year and his value in trade for a nice top prospect might be more then his value to us?

 

I dont mind keeping him but I think he wont be the same type of numbers next year. Still stability is our friend for once.

by far the worst series of the season. tuesday and wednesday's games were totally uncompetitive and last night you just knew that was going to happen.

 

i had pretty much already given up after the last 4 days but seeing that we have to go 40-19 is just sad. but considering the injuries this team has had to deal with, our current record is still a wonder. we're getting through a season with half of our 2nd to lowest league payroll and none of our starters (that is not dontrelle willis out there) except mr. dui

 

please move uggla down in the order. continues to prove he shouldn't be there. terrible double play. hermida, anybody there, need a change.

 

fredi = meh

Not possibly, it was. That entire series was the perfect example of what's wrong with the team this year.

 

That we suck...The D-Backs are playoff bound, or at least in the race. We are lucky if we can keep the Nats off our backs. I say trade whoever they feel they have to, but I'd wait until the road trip is over, and after we play the Braves. Maybe we'll get lucky and win some games. This series was horrible. It was just one of those you need morphine just to get over the pain.

Way back when we traded for Julio I was disappointed because I wanted Benitez instead.

 

Apparently that wasn't a great idea either... :confused

Benitez may be struggling, but no one deserves comparisons to Julio. Julio's tenure here still gives me nightmares. Also, we didn't give up anything for Benitez. Hopefully someone is willing to give up something for him at the deadline, hopefully.

Wonder if this series makes us sellers now, especially with JJ having another setback and Hanley missing time.

 

I'd rather shut Hanley down and let him have the surgery now and be ready for 08 if we do sell.

 

The only thing we can sell is Willis really. Boone won't attract anybody cause he's injured and Mando isn't impressing anybody.

Just-in Mil-ler clap clap clap clap clap

 

and if Boone can get healthy very soon, he will have interest

 

 

How about Kevin Gregg? We might want to keep, but I'd like to see the kind of offers we'd get considering the package it took for Linebrink.

no reason to even look to move him

 

Wouldnt his numbers come back down next year and his value in trade for a nice top prospect might be more then his value to us?

 

I dont mind keeping him but I think he wont be the same type of numbers next year. Still stability is our friend for once.

Yea, his numbers should come back to earth a little but he makes little money and that is the key

Wonder if this series makes us sellers now, especially with JJ having another setback and Hanley missing time.

 

I'd rather shut Hanley down and let him have the surgery now and be ready for 08 if we do sell.

 

The only thing we can sell is Willis really. Boone won't attract anybody cause he's injured and Mando isn't impressing anybody.

Just-in Mil-ler clap clap clap clap clap

 

and if Boone can get healthy very soon, he will have interest

 

 

How about Kevin Gregg? We might want to keep, but I'd like to see the kind of offers we'd get considering the package it took for Linebrink.

no reason to even look to move him

 

Wouldnt his numbers come back down next year and his value in trade for a nice top prospect might be more then his value to us?

 

I dont mind keeping him but I think he wont be the same type of numbers next year. Still stability is our friend for once.

Yea, his numbers should come back to earth a little but he makes little money and that is the key

 

 

His salary is very nice, but I think considering the offers being made for bullpen help it would be wise to listen. I definitely am a "trade happy" person(maybe thats why I like the Marlins so much :lol ) but I think the only "untouchables" on the team are Cabs, Hanley, JJ, and Hermida with Vanden Hurk close.

 

If somebody wants to overpay for Gregg, let them. I think we can build a good bullpen in 08 without him.

never was against moving Gregg for a crazy package.... just that I'd look to move Justin Miller first

Well, I agree that we don't trade those untouchables, Godfather but we have a bunch of young players with cheap salaries so trading a prospect like RVH for another young prospect really makes no sense.

Well, I agree that we don't trade those untouchables, Godfather but we have a bunch of young players with cheap salaries so trading a prospect like RVH for another young prospect really makes no sense.

 

 

ermmm... :blink:

Wonder if this series makes us sellers now, especially with JJ having another setback and Hanley missing time.

 

I'd rather shut Hanley down and let him have the surgery now and be ready for 08 if we do sell.

 

The only thing we can sell is Willis really. Boone won't attract anybody cause he's injured and Mando isn't impressing anybody.

Just-in Mil-ler clap clap clap clap clap

 

and if Boone can get healthy very soon, he will have interest

 

 

How about Kevin Gregg? We might want to keep, but I'd like to see the kind of offers we'd get considering the package it took for Linebrink.

no reason to even look to move him

 

Wouldnt his numbers come back down next year and his value in trade for a nice top prospect might be more then his value to us?

 

I dont mind keeping him but I think he wont be the same type of numbers next year. Still stability is our friend for once.

Yea, his numbers should come back to earth a little but he makes little money and that is the key

 

 

His salary is very nice, but I think considering the offers being made for bullpen help it would be wise to listen. I definitely am a "trade happy" person(maybe thats why I like the Marlins so much :lol ) but I think the only "untouchables" on the team are Cabs, Hanley, JJ, and Hermida with Vanden Hurk close.

 

If somebody wants to overpay for Gregg, let them. I think we can build a good bullpen in 08 without him.

So everyone wants to trade every pitcher on a team that happens to be last (or next to last) in runs allowed.

 

I guess I don't believe that every arm we have in the minors will turn out to be a good MLB pitcher so if we trade pitching we better get pitching back because Miguel is gone after the '08 season and with him goes this team's window of opportunity.

Well, I'm just saying that because you said RVH is close behind on being an untouchable but that kinda doesn't make sense. What I mean is that this is not like the Giants who have a bunch of veterans they call sell off for prospects, and we don't have many of those at all so trade possibilities are limited. I hope that kinda makes sense, but whatever. (PS I'm not knocking you or anything so don't take whatever I say personal, lol)

Well, I'm just saying that because you said RVH is close behind on being an untouchable but that kinda doesn't make sense. What I mean is that this is not like the Giants who have a bunch of veterans they call sell off for prospects, and we don't have many of those at all so trade possibilities are limited. I hope that kinda makes sense, but whatever. (PS I'm not knocking you or anything so don't take whatever I say personal, lol)

 

 

I just don't get what you are saying. Are you saying RVH is untouchable and I should move him up to that notch, instead of saying he was close to it?

 

 

If we were offered a young CF who could help us right away (2008) like a Rocco Baldelli (just an example)I would consider it. Thats why I consider him close to untouchable.

I can't believe Jorge Julio** ooops i mean Benitez gave up that HR on a 0-2 pitch.

Yeah on 0-2 i don't know how Byrnes even got something close to the plate. I wish we had Byrnes that guy's the man.