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Still want to dump Gonzalez?


AGonzalez11
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The last AB shows what Gonzalez can be when he isn't reaching and poking and lunging at balls not even near the strike zone. He fouled off a couple of 3-2 pitches until he got a lame duck and crushed it.

 

 

He's never going to be a .300 hitter, his eye just isn't good enough. He also will strike out a lot...but he has the swing to hit .275-20-25 HR a year and he PROVED IT early on. Would we be where we are if Gonzalez wasnt as good as he was the first half of the year? Not too sure.

 

Anyway, We could be much worse off than we are at SS...He's been awful all postseason, but we all know he is alot better than what hes showing right now. Keep AGon, trade Lee.

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LOL Now I bet everyone wants to keep him after all the negative things they said about him.

 

Look, I know I have said negative things about him whether it was on the board or not. But you gotta realize that you can't stop believing! I have been pretty upset at AGON lately but I gotta say, I still had a bit of faith in him. I knew he could do it. And he did. :thumbup

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He's never going to be a .300 hitter

Correct

 

He also will strike out a lot

 

Ummm.... Yup.

 

but he has the swing to hit .275-20-25 HR a year and he PROVED IT early on

 

6 weeks of decent hitting followed by 4 months of garbage? That is proving he can hit? He hit under .200 for the last two months of the season for God's sake!

Besides, he's only hit .275 once in 6 years and he's never hit 20hr.

 

I just don't understand why everyone still buys the arguement about his potential.

 

Sea Bass is a career .240 hitter whose only hit over 10 HR twice in SIX YEARS. And in those six years he's only driven in more than 50 RBI's twice. What about these stats makes you think he can all of a sudden recreate himself into a decent hitter?

 

Sea Bass is a very, very good shortstop. And I would understand a really good offensive team (like the Cards) keeping him in the lineup becuase they could afford to. But the Marlins are not an offenive juggernaught and the inability of Gonzalez to hit at all just is too much for this particular team to carry.

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Do we have a better option? He was 5th in your precious RBI category among ALL ML shortstops. He posted the 10th best OPS...just look for yourself http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...0&hand=a&pos=ss

 

 

The point is we don't ahve a better option. Maybe in the off-season we unload him for a cheaper option to pay Lowell and Co. but for this series and most likely next season he is the best defending/hitting SS our organization can muster. He is also better then what most teams have at their SS slot. Is he great? No. Does this one hit make up for offensive mediocrity? No. He is an above average SS overall though and if you can't accept that your just friggin spoiled.

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Hey Fish Fillet - why don't you do us all a favor and crawl back into your sardine can?

 

Alex Gonzlez or Sea Bass as you affectionately call him is no Ramon Santiago - that's for sure. Maybe you should worry about your beloved Tigers' shortstop situation.

 

Did you get a chubby when Jeff Weaver came on to pitch? Dombrowski should have held on to him, he would have fit in well with the rest of the twenty game losers in Detroit.

 

Oh yeah - and the Lions suck too.

 

:w00t

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He's never going to be a .300 hitter

 

Correct

 

He also will strike out a lot

Ummm.... Yup.

 

but he has the swing to hit .275-20-25 HR a year and he PROVED IT early on

 

6 weeks of decent hitting followed by 4 months of garbage? That is proving he can hit? He hit under .200 for the last two months of the season for God's sake!

Besides, he's only hit .275 once in 6 years and he's never hit 20hr.

 

I just don't understand why everyone still buys the arguement about his potential.

 

Sea Bass is a career .240 hitter whose only hit over 10 HR twice in SIX YEARS. And in those six years he's only driven in more than 50 RBI's twice. What about these stats makes you think he can all of a sudden recreate himself into a decent hitter?

 

Sea Bass is a very, very good shortstop. And I would understand a really good offensive team (like the Cards) keeping him in the lineup becuase they could afford to. But the Marlins are not an offenive juggernaught and the inability of Gonzalez to hit at all just is too much for this particular team to carry. Those 6 weeks were more than "Decent". He was one of the best hitters in the league in those first 2 months...he was hitting .340 at a point in time and basically carrying this team on his back and preventing it from dropping into even a bigger hole.

 

Those two months prove he CAN HIT, whatever he did four years ago means nothing so bringing up career numbers is pretty irrelevant. Like Shamrock pointed out, SS Is a light hitting position and with the exception of 5-8 guys, most teams don't have a guy that can hit 18 HR and 77 RBI there.

 

Gonzo went from being extremely good to being extremely bad...He probably isn't as good as the .340 hitter that he was in early September, but if you honestly think he's as bad as he's been showing in the postseason your hatred for him is blinding you of the obvious facts. He's struggling, just like Lowell is struggling. It happens, but last night proves what he's more than capable of. It's not potential, he alreadfy proved he could do it earlier this year, he;s just got to get his swing back over the offseason and stop lunging at every breakingball thrown to him.

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i still want to dump him or atleast bring some competition in

If theres one thing I can say about Ramp its that he has guns and he sticks to em.

 

IMO, yes ONE GAME WINNING HOMERUN IN A MUST WIN WORLD SERIES GAME does indeed make up for months of mediocrity. I don't care if its the first hit he ever had, he still got it. The time to win is NOW, and Agon did it for us.

 

 

This series could be so far out of reach if not for Agon. Love him like you know you want to.

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i still want to dump him or atleast bring some competition in

It probably is necessary from a financial standpoint, however there is nobody we can afford on the FA market who could challenge A-Gon for the job. Maybe it would light a fire under his butt? Does anyone have Walt Weiss' number? :D

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i still want to dump him or atleast bring some competition in

It probably is necessary from a financial standpoint, however there is nobody we can afford on the FA market who could challenge A-Gon for the job. Maybe it would light a fire under his butt? I don't think his struggles are related to lack of effort like they used to be...He's giving it his all on the field, but his hitting mechanics have so many holes in them he's just a disaster at the plate...he lunges at EVERY OUTSIDE breaking pick and every team knows it...he can't hit a breaking ball to save his life right now and everyone knows it.

 

Weaver threw him a fastball inside and he turned on it and CRUSHED it to say the least. If he can tinker with his swing and not chanse every breaking ball he sees he'll be fine, but thats sometyhing that takes time and hopefully someone works with him over the offseason..until then, all we can hope for is last night builds some confidence for him and he starts to contribute, because with Lowell, Lee, Castillo and even Pudge not doing anything offensively, we sure could use some offense froma difference source.

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I actually was intrigued by Harold Reynolds comments after the game, talking about how hitting 8th in the National League is the hardest job in baseball because you get a steady diet of breaking balls and pitches out of the zone.

 

Alex in the 8 hole: 71-306 (.232), 10 HR, 40 RBI, 24 BB, 64 K, .300 OBP

Alex everywhere else: 64-222 (.288), 8 HR, 37 RBI, 9 BB, 42 K, .316 OBP

 

So, was Alex hitting 8th because he was in a half-year slump, or was Alex in a half-year slump because he was hitting 8th?

 

I'm not sure we should keep him, but if we do, he's clearly not cut out to hit 8th. I mean, he is a fastball hitter, maybe we should hit him 7th.

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I actually was intrigued by Harold Reynolds comments after the game, talking about how hitting 8th in the National League is the hardest job in baseball because you get a steady diet of breaking balls and pitches out of the zone.

 

Alex in the 8 hole: 71-306 (.232), 10 HR, 40 RBI, 24 BB, 64 K, .300 OBP

Alex everywhere else: 64-222 (.288), 8 HR, 37 RBI, 9 BB, 42 K, .316 OBP

 

So, was Alex hitting 8th because he was in a half-year slump, or was Alex in a half-year slump because he was hitting 8th?

 

I'm not sure we should keep him, but if we do, he's clearly not cut out to hit 8th. I mean, he is a fastball hitter, maybe we should hit him 7th.

Good point...It's no coincidence that Gonzalez hit the HR with Encarnacion on deck instead of a pitcher...

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I was one of the people defending him before the season started. And I'm glad he was able to hit that walk off home run. It is frequently people like him who get to shine in the world series.

 

However, it is very frustrating to watch repeat the same mistakes over and over again. He doens't seem to be getting any better offensively, and I've about given up on seeing that happen.

 

The problem with replacing him is this: There are higher priorities for this team this off season. I don't know of anyone in the organization that could do any better offensively, and almost certainly no one is available to replace his glove. And I don't think they'll trade away valuable talent for a shortstop for next season. I think we're stuck with him for one more season. He is much more than adequate for the small market budget the Marlins have.

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And Keys, you know I am also one of the ones who was ferociously defending A Gon before this season started. And Big Hugg - YOU NAILED IT. It is funny how most of us have overlooked the difficulty of hitting out of the 8spot, and it is not a coincedence that A Gon had most of his success when he was hitting in other places of the lineup.

 

That said, .256 18HR is pretty damn good for a SS. And a gold glove to boot. Look at Ordonez in NY when they went to the World Series. Lots of teams (remember Eckstein?) can win without Jeter, A Rod, Garciaparra, Tejada at SS.

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Batting in the 8spot does NOT make life harder for a hitter. 8spot hitters have worse stats solely by virtue of the fact that they sucked enough to be moved to the 8spot in the first place. Pitchers don't make things harder for them. If the guy has any eye AT ALL, he could at the very least get some walks. Hitters hit in the 8spot if they reach at everything and get beat; pitchers know this.

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Batting in the 8spot does NOT make life harder for a hitter. 8spot hitters have worse stats solely by virtue of the fact that they sucked enough to be moved to the 8spot in the first place. Pitchers don't make things harder for them. If the guy has any eye AT ALL, he could at the very least get some walks. Hitters hit in the 8spot if they reach at everything and get beat; pitchers know this.

Gonzalez is a free swinger by nature, and with the pitcher batting behind him no decent pitcher will give him anything to hit.

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