Oh my bad Erik, how do you know the logistics of how they select players for the WBC? Unless you are a coach or the CEO you don't know either. If you aren't, then you assume just like everyone else because you have no idea what they are looking for. Name the pitchers that have declined. Why did they decline? I'd be interested to hear your assumptions.

 

 

Ugh...these aren't assumptions.

I know for sure that Brandon Webb and Cliff Lee declined. I saw that.

 

Don't know about guys like Sabathia, Lincecum, Haren, Halladay, etc., etc., but if you truly think Lindstrom belongs on this team, you're kidding yourself.

 

 

He's an American. He's an MLB pitcher. Therefore, he deserves to be on this team. That should be the end of the discussion. But of course it won't be. And why?? Because it happens to be a very good opportunity for you to take what should be a plus and try to turn it into a negative. It's so good to see most aren't buying into that kind of crap.

 

Even tho I don't like the WBC, I have to say congratulations to this young man. And to all those that have been asked to represent their home countries. Whether they accept the invitation or not, and for whatever reasons they didn't accept, it is an honor to be asked. And I would bet anything that not one of them turned it down because they didn't think they deserved to represent their country.

 

And yet you feel so strongly that he shouldn't be there. So stand up for your beliefs. Actually do something about them instead of mouthing off on a message board in the safety of your own private world. For instance, first time you actually see him (most likely at FanFest in just a few weeks, and please let me be within earshot), inform him that he dosen't deserve to represent the USA and you want him to turn down the opportunity. That would be interesting to witness. If for no other reason, just to see who is kidding who.

 

 

:lol at your reasoning.

You know who else deserves to be on this team? Reggie Abercrombie. He's an American, an MLB player. Therefore, he deserves to be on this team. That should be the end of the discussion.

 

Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Probably not, considering half the stuff you post sounds as ridiculous as this, anyways.

 

Maybe if you took off the teal homer glasses, you'd see what I'm talking about.

 

As for "I bet none of them turned it down because they didn't think they deserved to represent their country"...congratulations, sherlock. Big deal...you just posted an irrelevant quote. By "doesn't deserve to be there" I mean that Lindstrom IS NOT one of the better pitchers in the United States. I don't mean that he doesn't deserve to be there b/c he's not American.

 

But I'm sure the big homer you are...you'll find a way to twist this around too, somehow. B/c well...Lindstrom pitches for the Marlins...so, umm...yeah...he DEFINITELY deserves this. He's definitely better than Sabathia, Lincecum, Halladay, Webb, Lidge, and all those GREAT arms the U.S. has.

 

And as usual, you missed the entire point. Nice going tough guy.

 

 

 

Nope. You just don't understand analogies, apparently.

Your reasoning for why Lindstrom deserves to make the team is b/c he's an MLB pitcher...and he's American. Reggie Abercrombie is an MLB OF'er...and he's American. Thus, he deserves a spot as well, according to your "theory."

So Lindstrom was chosen b/c he throws 100? As opposed to a guy like Papelbon who throws a soft 97-98...and is better?

 

You make no sense.

 

Selecting a player to fit into a team b/c of his versatility (like DeRosa) makes sense. Selecting a player b/c he simply throws 2 or 3 mph more than another pitcher makes no sense.

 

First of all, I'm only speculating as to why he was chosen, and not stating it as fact (such as yourself). All I'm saying is they both posses certain things that set them apart, that nobody else can offer.

 

Second, you must be a keyboard jock, because in real life the difference between 97MPH and 100MPH is enormous when your 60 1/2 feet away.

No, it's really not.

 

On a 97 MPH fastball, it takes 0.43 seconds for the pitch to arrive at home. For a 100 MPH fastball, it takes 0.41 seconds.

 

A batter only has about 62.5% of that time to decided whether or not to swing at that pitch. That means he has 0.266 seconds to hit a 97 MPH fastball and 0.258 seconds to hit a 100 MPH fastball.

 

That's a difference of about 0.008 seconds, or 8/1000th of a second. A batter has an extra 8/1000th of a second to decided how to swing at a 97 MPH instead of a 100 MPH.

 

All this is assuming that the ball travels 60.5 feet, which it doesn't, obviously. It's less than that.

 

 

But once again, the whole point is that it's negligible.

 

Have you ever stood in a batters box and looked at a 97 MPH fastball, and then a 100 MPH fastball?

 

I suggest you do, and then tell me there's no difference.

 

 

 

See, that's the problem.

Just like how people fail to recognize how much better the other relievers are compared to Lindstrom, they are ignorant in this case.

 

Rab just posted actual #'s...like...facts.

 

How about coming back with a fact, instead of saying "Have you ever stood in a batters box and looked at a 97 mph fastball, and then a 100 mph fastball? I suggest you do..."

 

Tell me...when was the last time you stepped in the batters box to tell the difference?

So Lindstrom was chosen b/c he throws 100? As opposed to a guy like Papelbon who throws a soft 97-98...and is better?

 

You make no sense.

 

Selecting a player to fit into a team b/c of his versatility (like DeRosa) makes sense. Selecting a player b/c he simply throws 2 or 3 mph more than another pitcher makes no sense.

 

First of all, I'm only speculating as to why he was chosen, and not stating it as fact (such as yourself). All I'm saying is they both posses certain things that set them apart, that nobody else can offer.

 

Second, you must be a keyboard jock, because in real life the difference between 97MPH and 100MPH is enormous when your 60 1/2 feet away.

 

 

But...it is fact, considering certain pitchers HAVE declined the invitation.

See, that's the problem.

Just like how people fail to recognize how much better the other relievers are compared to Lindstrom, they are ignorant in this case.

 

Rab just posted actual #'s...like...facts.

 

How about coming back with a fact, instead of saying "Have you ever stood in a batters box and looked at a 97 mph fastball, and then a 100 mph fastball? I suggest you do..."

 

Tell me...when was the last time you stepped in the batters box to tell the difference?

 

Actually, I have a batting cage in my backyard, and a machine that hits 100 MPH. So, just to let you know, I have done it. I can go do it in five minutes again if I'd like. I've never seen this difference from live pitching, but I am very close with people who have. I can tell a difference, and everyone else tells me they can, too. My brother was touted as having some of the quickest hands in the nation, and he has told me it's extremely difficult to hit 100 MPH (you almost have to guess). I've also seen him rip a few guys that threw in the mid-high 90's...

 

But...it is fact, considering certain pitchers HAVE declined the invitation.

 

And you know for a fact that Lindstrom's invitiation was contingent on these pitchers declining?

And you know for a fact that Lindstrom's invitiation was contingent on these pitchers declining?

 

 

It's common sense.

 

PS - Take into consideration that despite the 100 mph fastball, Lindstrom doesn't K people at a great rate, either. (yet another "situation" where it wouldn't be a great idea to use Lindstrom)

 

There's no way in hell anyone in their right minds would take Matt Lindstrom over a guy like Jonathan Papelbon b/c Lindstrom's fastball is an extra 2-4 mph. Why would that even be a consideration? As if 96-98 mph isn't gas...

And you know for a fact that Lindstrom's invitiation was contingent on these pitchers declining?

 

 

It's common sense.

 

PS - Take into consideration that despite the 100 mph fastball, Lindstrom doesn't K people at a great rate, either. (yet another "situation" where it wouldn't be a great idea to use Lindstrom)

 

There's no way in hell anyone in their right minds would take Matt Lindstrom over a guy like Jonathan Papelbon b/c Lindstrom's fastball is an extra 2-4 mph. Why would that even be a consideration? As if 96-98 mph isn't gas...

 

You continue to miss the point.

 

The point is, outside of Lee and Webb you don't know one pitcher who was invited and declined. Not one. Stop acting like you do.

 

Under your theory, it must be "common sense" to figure Uggla was invited and must have declined, which is why DeRosa was offered. I mean, look at the numbers!!!! OMGZ!!!

Here is a fact, Lindstrom is on the team.

 

And the guys you keep naming are starting pitchers that decline, no way would a team let there ace mess up his throwing routine before the season to pitch as a reliever. Sure the 4 guys you have named might have been more deserving if you look at numbers, but who says they looked at numbers, hell they might have all been asked and they declined. Be happy for a guy that is willing to play for his country.

And you know for a fact that Lindstrom's invitiation was contingent on these pitchers declining?

 

 

It's common sense.

 

PS - Take into consideration that despite the 100 mph fastball, Lindstrom doesn't K people at a great rate, either. (yet another "situation" where it wouldn't be a great idea to use Lindstrom)

 

There's no way in hell anyone in their right minds would take Matt Lindstrom over a guy like Jonathan Papelbon b/c Lindstrom's fastball is an extra 2-4 mph. Why would that even be a consideration? As if 96-98 mph isn't gas...

 

You continue to miss the point.

 

The point is, outside of Lee and Webb you don't know one pitcher who was invited and declined. Not one. Stop acting like you do.

 

Under your theory, it must be "common sense" to figure Uggla was invited and must have declined, which is why DeRosa was offered. I mean, look at the numbers!!!! OMGZ!!!

 

No, b/c there's a logical reason why DeRosa was selected over Uggla. The team already named a starting 2B (Pedroia). DeRosa isn't a 2B...he's a utility player. As in, he can fill in at 3B...he can fill in, in the OF, etc. That's actually a spot where you can say...well, DeRosa is a better fit for the team. It's quite obvious.

 

Why is Lindstrom a better fit for this team than Papelbon, Lidge, Wood, Jenks, etc. (+ the starting pitchers). B/c he throws 100? What's next? Is Kyle Farnsworth going to make the team too?

no way would a team let there ace mess up his throwing routine before the season to pitch as a reliever.

 

hell they might have all been asked and they declined.

 

 

^Oh look...it's what I've been saying the entire thread (the last sentence). Couldn't come up with anything logical as to why Lindstrom deserves to be on this team, other than that, right? I know...it's difficult...I couldn't think of one either.

 

And...what are you talking about buddy? You are aware that when Spring Training starts, starting pitchers only pitch 2 or 3 innings (in other words...like a reliever). But yeah...I'm sure that played a big part too. Don't tell Peavy, Oswalt, and Lackey. :whistle

Erick, I am on your side of the argument for the most part...BUT...Starters only throw 2, 3 innings in their first couple of spring starts, then with each start comes more innings...so by the end of the spring, pitchers will be on their normal routine, throwing 5, 6, and 7 innings. Just wanted to throw that out there.

I think both of you ar right about lindstrom. Are theyre better guys that could do the job who declined yeah but does lindstom also fit a role they were looking for yeah.

I think both of you ar right about lindstrom. Are theyre better guys that could do the job who declined yeah but does lindstom also fit a role they were looking for yeah.

 

 

 

What's the role, though, that he excels at?

Erick, I am on your side of the argument for the most part...BUT...Starters only throw 2, 3 innings in their first couple of spring starts, then with each start comes more innings...so by the end of the spring, pitchers will be on their normal routine, throwing 5, 6, and 7 innings. Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

Well, fair enough...that is true.

I think both of you ar right about lindstrom. Are theyre better guys that could do the job who declined yeah but does lindstom also fit a role they were looking for yeah.

 

 

 

What's the role, though, that he excels at?

 

 

Releaving in the middle innings such as say the 5th,6th or 7th where you wouldent want to use some one such as a lidge if you had him.

I think both of you ar right about lindstrom. Are theyre better guys that could do the job who declined yeah but does lindstom also fit a role they were looking for yeah.

 

 

 

What's the role, though, that he excels at?

 

 

Releaving in the middle innings such as say the 5th,6th or 7th where you wouldent want to use some one such as a lidge if you had him.

 

 

Ugh...why?

Joe Morgan was quoted as once saying that once you hit 97, it's all about the same.

 

Are you seriously going to quote Joe Morgan and expect us to take that as a valid statement? :lol

 

Sure he's probably the greatest 2nd baseman to ever play the game, but he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to analyzing baseball. Havn't you ever read FJM?

I showed it, he actually said both that they were about the same and that he could tell the difference.

I think both of you ar right about lindstrom. Are theyre better guys that could do the job who declined yeah but does lindstom also fit a role they were looking for yeah.

 

 

 

What's the role, though, that he excels at?

 

 

Releaving in the middle innings such as say the 5th,6th or 7th where you wouldent want to use some one such as a lidge if you had him.

 

 

Ugh...why?

 

Well if you had guys like lidge or paps you would obviously save them for the 8th ninth.

 

Just to let you know i agree with you that if all the guys who are american played lindstrom wouldnt make it. But I like trying to argue the other side a little.

I think both of you ar right about lindstrom. Are theyre better guys that could do the job who declined yeah but does lindstom also fit a role they were looking for yeah.

 

 

 

What's the role, though, that he excels at?

 

 

Releaving in the middle innings such as say the 5th,6th or 7th where you wouldent want to use some one such as a lidge if you had him.

 

 

Ugh...why?

 

Well if you had guys like lidge or paps you would obviously save them for the 8th ninth.

 

Just to let you know i agree with you that if all the guys who are american played lindstrom wouldnt make it. But I like trying to argue the other side a little.

 

 

Yeah, I know, but when you consider Nathan, + some of the relievers who are on the team already + other guys like Kerry Wood and Bobby Jenks...the U.S. is just loaded with arms. POWER arms, too.

So we complain that the Marlins never get any recognition, but when one of their players is recognized and honored with an invitation to represent the USA in the WBC we get upset because apparently he doesn't deserve to be on the team? I don't get it.

 

Somebody gets it. Teal glasses? Homer?? Nope. Just proud of all our guys that have been asked to represent whatever country they are from. I definetly don't see it as an opportunity to see how I can make myself feel superior over others that are in a position of authority by bashing them.

 

I would imagine most of the top of the line pitchers, relief or SPs, arent going because their teams don't want to risk it. And/or want them in ST for the "eyes on" work. I doubt very much if all the best players at every position are clammering for a spot on the their home team rosters. Matter of fact, we saw that in our own org the last time this event was held.

 

Same here. I'm happy for the guy, and proud one of our Marlins is going to be on the US team. I'd hate to have to root for Jeter....

Yeah, I know, but when you consider Nathan, + some of the relievers who are on the team already + other guys like Kerry Wood and Bobby Jenks...the U.S. is just loaded with arms. POWER arms, too.

 

 

I know the US has alot of power arms and lots of those guys also have better secondary pitches. Really I cant figure out why hes there, maybe somebody sees something. His fastball gets him noticed by lots of baseball people. I dont who averaged the fastest fastball this year but I know in 07 it was him at 98. When you can average 98 and do well like he did for us at the end of last year people will usually give you a shot.

 

I just hope this gives him a huge confidence boost and he comes out this year lights out.

Yeah, I know, but when you consider Nathan, + some of the relievers who are on the team already + other guys like Kerry Wood and Bobby Jenks...the U.S. is just loaded with arms. POWER arms, too.

 

 

I know the US has alot of power arms and lots of those guys also have better secondary pitches. Really I cant figure out why hes there, maybe somebody sees something. His fastball gets him noticed by lots of baseball people. I dont who averaged the fastest fastball this year but I know in 07 it was him at 98. When you can average 98 and do well like he did for us at the end of last year people will usually give you a shot.

 

I just hope this gives him a huge confidence boost and he comes out this year lights out.

 

Lindstrom's offspeed stuf is actually pretty good IMO. He just doesn't throw it as often as he should, and just has some issues controling it sometimes (but IMO would probably have a little better command if he DID throw it a little more).

Yeah, I know, but when you consider Nathan, + some of the relievers who are on the team already + other guys like Kerry Wood and Bobby Jenks...the U.S. is just loaded with arms. POWER arms, too.

 

 

I know the US has alot of power arms and lots of those guys also have better secondary pitches. Really I cant figure out why hes there, maybe somebody sees something. His fastball gets him noticed by lots of baseball people. I dont who averaged the fastest fastball this year but I know in 07 it was him at 98. When you can average 98 and do well like he did for us at the end of last year people will usually give you a shot.

 

I just hope this gives him a huge confidence boost and he comes out this year lights out.

 

Lindstrom's offspeed stuf is actually pretty good IMO. He just doesn't throw it as often as he should, and just has some issues controling it sometimes (but IMO would probably have a little better command if he DID throw it a little more).

 

 

I think its better than people realize its just sometimes like you said he cant control it. As far as I know he throws a fastball,slider, and split. The problem with his slider is that its drops to like 86 and hitters will lay off it or foul it off, he needs to get a harder one imo or get better control of the split which he doesnt always seem comfortable throwing.

Yeah, I know, but when you consider Nathan, + some of the relievers who are on the team already + other guys like Kerry Wood and Bobby Jenks...the U.S. is just loaded with arms. POWER arms, too.

 

 

I know the US has alot of power arms and lots of those guys also have better secondary pitches. Really I cant figure out why hes there, maybe somebody sees something. His fastball gets him noticed by lots of baseball people. I dont who averaged the fastest fastball this year but I know in 07 it was him at 98. When you can average 98 and do well like he did for us at the end of last year people will usually give you a shot.

 

I just hope this gives him a huge confidence boost and he comes out this year lights out.

 

Lindstrom's offspeed stuf is actually pretty good IMO. He just doesn't throw it as often as he should, and just has some issues controling it sometimes (but IMO would probably have a little better command if he DID throw it a little more).

 

 

I think its better than people realize its just sometimes like you said he cant control it. As far as I know he throws a fastball,slider, and split. The problem with his slider is that its drops to like 86 and hitters will lay off it or foul it off, he needs to get a harder one imo or get better control of the split which he doesnt always seem comfortable throwing.

 

I agree. A lot of it has to do with Baker calling for the fast ball all the time. I thought the promising thing with Lindstrom last year was when he threw David Wright 3 straight sliders when facing him in New York. Wright was way off balance and finally popped out to Uggla. Like you said if he throws the offspeed more, he will get more comfortable throwing it. I read somewhere that he once again had the fastest average fastball this year. Perhaps the reason he doesn't throw the offspeed as much is his fear of getting beat on his second best pitches. IMO the secondary pitches have to be thrown if he is going to have any success in this league as a closer. Good hitters can hit 98-100 if they are sitting on it. Anyways, I too hope this WBC bolsters his confidence. Then again, they might not even choose him to be on the team, who knows?

Yeah, I know, but when you consider Nathan, + some of the relievers who are on the team already + other guys like Kerry Wood and Bobby Jenks...the U.S. is just loaded with arms. POWER arms, too.

 

 

I know the US has alot of power arms and lots of those guys also have better secondary pitches. Really I cant figure out why hes there, maybe somebody sees something. His fastball gets him noticed by lots of baseball people. I dont who averaged the fastest fastball this year but I know in 07 it was him at 98. When you can average 98 and do well like he did for us at the end of last year people will usually give you a shot.

 

I just hope this gives him a huge confidence boost and he comes out this year lights out.

 

Lindstrom's offspeed stuf is actually pretty good IMO. He just doesn't throw it as often as he should, and just has some issues controling it sometimes (but IMO would probably have a little better command if he DID throw it a little more).

 

 

I think its better than people realize its just sometimes like you said he cant control it. As far as I know he throws a fastball,slider, and split. The problem with his slider is that its drops to like 86 and hitters will lay off it or foul it off, he needs to get a harder one imo or get better control of the split which he doesnt always seem comfortable throwing.

 

Whoa, there. Throwing an 86 MPH slider with a 98 MPH fastball is huge. He doesn't need to throw a harder one, he just needs to control it. The speed difference is what makes him so hard to time. If he can throw it for strikes, then an 86 MPH slider (which is still pretty hard), will make his fastball look like 110 MPH.

Yeah, I know, but when you consider Nathan, + some of the relievers who are on the team already + other guys like Kerry Wood and Bobby Jenks...the U.S. is just loaded with arms. POWER arms, too.

 

 

I know the US has alot of power arms and lots of those guys also have better secondary pitches. Really I cant figure out why hes there, maybe somebody sees something. His fastball gets him noticed by lots of baseball people. I dont who averaged the fastest fastball this year but I know in 07 it was him at 98. When you can average 98 and do well like he did for us at the end of last year people will usually give you a shot.

 

I just hope this gives him a huge confidence boost and he comes out this year lights out.

 

Lindstrom's offspeed stuf is actually pretty good IMO. He just doesn't throw it as often as he should, and just has some issues controling it sometimes (but IMO would probably have a little better command if he DID throw it a little more).

 

 

I think its better than people realize its just sometimes like you said he cant control it. As far as I know he throws a fastball,slider, and split. The problem with his slider is that its drops to like 86 and hitters will lay off it or foul it off, he needs to get a harder one imo or get better control of the split which he doesnt always seem comfortable throwing.

 

Whoa, there. Throwing an 86 MPH slider with a 98 MPH fastball is huge. He doesn't need to throw a harder one, he just needs to control it. The speed difference is what makes him so hard to time. If he can throw it for strikes, then an 86 MPH slider (which is still pretty hard), will make his fastball look like 110 MPH.

 

 

Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.