Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.

They wanted him to work on his slider because it had no bite and even less control.

Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.

 

I think the difference is more easily noticed when you never use it. If they don't read fastball, they just don't even swing considering they know they can sit on that fastball 9 out of 10 times. If he used the slider more often, they can't sit on anything. If he can establish that pitch early on, everyone is off-balance. I think that's definitely something they're going to work with him on this spring going into the closer role.

Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.

 

I think the difference is more easily noticed when you never use it. If they don't read fastball, they just don't even swing considering they know they can sit on that fastball 9 out of 10 times. If he used the slider more often, they can't sit on anything. If he can establish that pitch early on, everyone is off-balance. I think that's definitely something they're going to work with him on this spring going into the closer role.

 

Even if they recognize it, the questions are: Can they hit it if they DO swing, and will it hurt them if they DON'T swing? With poor control, they know the answer to the 2nd question is usually "no", so they can lay off the slider. Knowing that it's a slider and not a fastball really isn't the problem.

 

Some guys make 2 pitches close to the same speed (and maybe look like they rotate similarly) but break differently, and that makes hitters have a harder time guessing what kind of pitch it is and how it might break, sure. But in that case, you lose the benefit of having pitches which move different speeds and throw off a batter's timing. I don't know which method is superior, but I think changing is speeds for a pitcher is certainly easier, and as a batter I've always felt that was more important and tougher to adjust to.

Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.

They wanted him to work on his slider because it had no bite and even less control.

 

I just remember rich and tommy saying the marlins wanted a harder slider from him which also means more bite like you said cause i do remember it hanging. From what i heard he changed his grip slightly on his slider to gain some control and more bite.

Id like to see one like lidge or broxton whos both bite hard.

Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.

They wanted him to work on his slider because it had no bite and even less control.

 

I just remember rich and tommy saying the marlins wanted a harder slider from him which also means more bite like you said cause i do remember it hanging. From what i heard he changed his grip slightly on his slider to gain some control and more bite.

Id like to see one like lidge or broxton whos both bite hard.

Lidge's slider isn't only hard, it also goes about 85 MPH, which makes it deadly. He has actually slowed his down over the last few years.

Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.

 

I think the difference is more easily noticed when you never use it. If they don't read fastball, they just don't even swing considering they know they can sit on that fastball 9 out of 10 times. If he used the slider more often, they can't sit on anything. If he can establish that pitch early on, everyone is off-balance. I think that's definitely something they're going to work with him on this spring going into the closer role.

 

Even if they recognize it, the questions are: Can they hit it if they DO swing, and will it hurt them if they DON'T swing? With poor control, they know the answer to the 2nd question is usually "no", so they can lay off the slider. Knowing that it's a slider and not a fastball really isn't the problem.

 

Some guys make 2 pitches close to the same speed (and maybe look like they rotate similarly) but break differently, and that makes hitters have a harder time guessing what kind of pitch it is and how it might break, sure. But in that case, you lose the benefit of having pitches which move different speeds and throw off a batter's timing. I don't know which method is superior, but I think changing is speeds for a pitcher is certainly easier, and as a batter I've always felt that was more important and tougher to adjust to.

 

I completely agree, that when a pitcher really messes up your timing I personally believe it is far superior.

 

From your first paragraph, that's the point I'm trying to make. I think when Lindstrom DOES throw the slider, when hitters recognize it they don't even bother swinging because it's likely it isn't going to be a strike, and it's very likely they're going to get cheese the rest of the AB. If Lindstrom worked on throwing the slider a little more, I think he'd gain more command of it and be able to throw hitters off balance a little more.

Exactly what i though too. Then i heard rich and tommy talking about matt when he was sent down to the minors that the marlins wanted him to work on his slider cause it was to easy for hitters to recognize the speed difference.

They wanted him to work on his slider because it had no bite and even less control.

 

I just remember rich and tommy saying the marlins wanted a harder slider from him which also means more bite like you said cause i do remember it hanging. From what i heard he changed his grip slightly on his slider to gain some control and more bite.

Id like to see one like lidge or broxton whos both bite hard.

Lidge's slider isn't only hard, it also goes about 85 MPH, which makes it deadly. He has actually slowed his down over the last few years.

 

 

Yeah but his fastball is also slower than matts. From what i saw of him last year he was usually around 94. Plus he can drop that thing in whenever he wants or throw it in the dirt. I think more than any thing id like to see Matt gain alot of control.

When Matty went to triple A he worked on throwing a harder slider there's no doubt. More importantly the triple A coach gave him some goals which were 1) don't ever let inherited runners score 2) always get the first batter out. Although he worked on his slider, he also got some mental coaching as well, which, for him, is a huge thing.

No, it's really not.

 

On a 97 MPH fastball, it takes 0.43 seconds for the pitch to arrive at home. For a 100 MPH fastball, it takes 0.41 seconds.

 

A batter only has about 62.5% of that time to decided whether or not to swing at that pitch. That means he has 0.266 seconds to hit a 97 MPH fastball and 0.258 seconds to hit a 100 MPH fastball.

 

That's a difference of about 0.008 seconds, or 8/1000th of a second. A batter has an extra 8/1000th of a second to decided how to swing at a 97 MPH instead of a 100 MPH.

 

All this is assuming that the ball travels 60.5 feet, which it doesn't, obviously. It's less than that.

 

 

But once again, the whole point is that it's negligible.

 

Have you ever stood in a batters box and looked at a 97 MPH fastball, and then a 100 MPH fastball?

 

I suggest you do, and then tell me there's no difference.

Ah...that's annoying....any idea how long that math took for you to just condescend through it?

 

Well, I say Erick asks his brother, a former Angels farmhand, if he could tell the difference. Help us settle this.

 

Well, I have had several conversations regarding this issue with my former 2nd Team All-State, D-I offered and MLB prospect brother who was one of the nations top hitters from the class of '06, and he has told me there's quite a difference. As well as several other D-I and minor league players I have grown up with my entire life. They all confirm this as well.

Joe Morgan was quoted as once saying that once you hit 97, it's all about the same.

 

That said, he was quoted as saying that he could tell the difference between a 100 MPH and a 101 MPH.

 

Biggio was also quoted as saying there was very little difference but his former teammate and fellow future HOFer Jeff Bagwell said it's much harder to hit a 100 MPH fastball.

 

That said, the eyes of a fighter pilot are said to be able to recognize pictures flashed at 1/220th. That's 4.5/1000ths of a second. So, I'll concede it is POSSIBLE that there is a difference to MLB hitters. To me, once you get as high as 90, I can't even tell.

 

I could see where there would be a difference. If nothing else it would be in the hitters head knowing this guy can hit triple digits. Remember an ASG a few years back with Randy Johnson on the mound?

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

Very well put. :thumbup

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

 

 

I'm glad you kept on going b/c the bolded part is quite easy to do.

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

 

 

I'm glad you kept on going b/c the bolded part is quite easy to do.

 

Way to bold part of a sentence and not even acknowledge the entire point. You're pretty good at that.

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

 

 

I'm glad you kept on going b/c the bolded part is quite easy to do.

There are better pitchers with better numbers bro and for whatever reason they declined or chose not to play. Why can't you accept the fact that he was invited (not that he will make the team) by the coaches who saw a fit for him? I would think a baseball guy and Florida Marlin fan like yourself would be more supportive of him, especially when he has a shot to be the closer this years team.

 

Go ahead and name the pitchers with better numbers and who have declined, however, that still is not going to change the facts. I think that if Lindstrom was in your situation and you were in his and he was a Marlins fan, he would be happy for you even if he thought you didn't deserve it. Let's see less criticizing and more support-you are better than that.

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

 

 

I'm glad you kept on going b/c the bolded part is quite easy to do.

There are better pitchers with better numbers bro and for whatever reason they declined or chose not to play. Why can't you accept the fact that he was invited (not that he will make the team) by the coaches who saw a fit for him? I would think a baseball guy and Florida Marlin fan like yourself would be more supportive of him, especially when he has a shot to be the closer this years team.

 

Go ahead and name the pitchers with better numbers and who have declined, however, that still is not going to change the facts. I think that if Lindstrom was in your situation and you were in his and he was a Marlins fan, he would be happy for you even if he thought you didn't deserve it. Let's see less criticizing and more support-you are better than that.

 

 

I never said I wasn't happy for Matt Lindstrom. I'd love to see him go...& just dominate. I'd love to see him dominate this year with the Marlins. I'd love for him to fall to the later rounds in my fantasy baseball draft, so I could draft him this year (I normally don't grab closers/saves early, so I might end up with someone like him).

 

Anyways, just b/c I disagree with the selection, doesn't mean I'm not happy for him. I just so happen to disagree.

I don't think erick is mad, upset, or wishes matt to fail.

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

 

 

I'm glad you kept on going b/c the bolded part is quite easy to do.

There are better pitchers with better numbers bro and for whatever reason they declined or chose not to play. Why can't you accept the fact that he was invited (not that he will make the team) by the coaches who saw a fit for him? I would think a baseball guy and Florida Marlin fan like yourself would be more supportive of him, especially when he has a shot to be the closer this years team.

 

Go ahead and name the pitchers with better numbers and who have declined, however, that still is not going to change the facts. I think that if Lindstrom was in your situation and you were in his and he was a Marlins fan, he would be happy for you even if he thought you didn't deserve it. Let's see less criticizing and more support-you are better than that.

 

 

I never said I wasn't happy for Matt Lindstrom. I'd love to see him go...& just dominate. I'd love to see him dominate this year with the Marlins. I'd love for him to fall to the later rounds in my fantasy baseball draft, so I could draft him this year (I normally don't grab closers/saves early, so I might end up with someone like him).

 

Anyways, just b/c I disagree with the selection, doesn't mean I'm not happy for him. I just so happen to disagree.

 

I know you support because I read your posts. I hope he does well too.

But back to the original topic...

 

Team USA has until the 19th of Jan to come up with as many as 45 guys on the roster. From that they have until Feb 24th to whittle that down to the 25 man roster, of that it is mandatory to have 13 pitchers. Mandatory. The current roster shows 11 pitchers on it. (From the WBC web site.) It isn't like pitchers are falling all over themselves to be included. Probably because they can't get permission for their current clubs. Also, read the article. A quote from Matt is something to effect they told him they aren't trying to put together an AS team, they are looking for pieces that fit. They asked Matt, he got permission, and he is on the team. Yes, he deserves the shot. To say differently, without providing a list of other pitchers with more experience and better numbers that have made it known they would be willing to sign and yet were not asked, would be a self-important, judgemental, unwarranted rant and should be taken no other way.

 

That was beautiful! Thanks for the eloquent post, and I'm glad others support him!

Does anyone really think Matt Lindstrom will make this team with the other relievers on the roster? It's unlikely...

It's probably unlikely, however that would be cool if he did. I hope he can go just to see how some of the best prepare before games. Who knows Joe Nathan could teach him a different grip on the off-speed pitches. Perhaps then he would gain the confidence to throw off-speed in any count. Plus, this would be a good experience and it would surely boost his confidence. Looking at the other relievers on the team it looks gloomy for him to make it IMO.

Does anyone really think Matt Lindstrom will make this team with the other relievers on the roster? It's unlikely...

 

My guess is, as long as he doesnt get hurt or anything to that extent before they trim the roster down, he will still be playing for them.

Does anyone really think Matt Lindstrom will make this team with the other relievers on the roster? It's unlikely...

 

My guess is, as long as he doesnt get hurt or anything to that extent before they trim the roster down, he will still be playing for them.

 

Because they are saying they aren't trying to put an AS team together, instead they are trying to put a team together to win this thing, I wouldn't have an educated answer to this question. I would think, first, they are going to look at the projected lineups of the other teams. Starting with Pool C and Pool D. Check to see if there is any history between those lineups and the pitchers available, have inside information on how they plan to "attack" those teams, and then see how all pitchers are doing in camp.

 

If I were forced to make a guess without all that information, I would have to say yes. As good a shot as any of the other pitchers on the roster. It has less to do with cheering on the "home team" as it is I just refuse to sell any of them short. Guess I'm just not that judgemental.

Erick sometimes I am sooo amazed about how negative you can get It is almost like you post things just to piss everyone off and just sit back to enjoy everyone's reaction. As a Marlin's fan we cannot be anything but happy that the selection committee thought highly enough of Lindstrom to include his name. You even crap on that! What the hell is wrong with you? What is the purpose anyway? Wanna show how much smarter you are than everyone else? Not this time, it actually makes you seem trivial and whiney. You Know what?, regardless if he is the worse or the best that is a huge honor that has been bestowed on him. We are all proud and happy for him. Doesn't matter if he makes the team or not he was asked to try out!

It's nice to see all the support from Marlins fans who believe in one of their players. :thumbup

It's nice to see all the support from Marlins fans who believe in one of their players. :thumbup

 

Yes it is. But for me it's not just that he is a Marlin. I would say the same thing about any player that was asked to compete for this team, regardless of the orginazation they played for, if someone went on a message board and said they didn't deserve the opportunity.

 

Compare lists of guys that weren't asked that have better numbers and were able, willing, and allowed by their home team to play. I keep hearing, "That is easy to do." Yet still nothing. Show us the scouting reports on the lineups of the other teams playing. Both the "stars" and the guys most of us have never seen or even heard of. Combine that with the guys we have and see what history, if any, there is. If no history, show us the scouting reports that tell what their weaknesses are and how the guys we opted for can or can not take advantage of those weaknesses over other guys from the first couple lists. Fill us in on the game plans this coaching staff is putting together for each team they are scheduled to play through the first two rounds at least. Show us.

 

Won't happen. Not because those lists don't exist, but because they aren't public knowledge. Our coaching staff has those lists and are using them right now. No one can possibly think they are just sitting around on their rumps thinking that just because we are Team USA that we will win this thing, so no planning and brainstorming is needed. Not after the last WBC. So like I said before, anyone that says a certain player dosen't deserve the shot or that he won't make the team is throwing an unwarranted, self-rightous, judgemental rant and should be taken no other way. And anyone that says "That isn't the way I would do it", is probably showing why he isn't doing it. They should send their resumes in for the next WBC. And I am 99.99% sure they will instead be right back here telling us all how someone dosen't deserve the shot at competeing for his home country because "He isn't the player I would pick."