Makes sense since we have Coghlan waiting in the wings. I will sure miss Uggla's power, but Coghlan will make up for it with his plate discipline. We should probably trade him this July while his value is high. Giants say they're interested? Give us Madison Bumgarner :mischief I wish

Here is the problem. If all other teams know that we want to move Uggla pretty badly, why would they give their best offer? I think this backfired with the Cabrera/Willis trade.

Ahh this sucks, I love Dan. Can we not pay one more guy, Just a 3 year contract and for 25 mil. If he keeps producing like he has we can still trade him easily with that contract. ( Just a side note I know nothing about what uggla could get or what he would want in a contact or our payroll)

Here is the problem. If all other teams know that we want to move Uggla pretty badly, why would they give their best offer? I think this backfired with the Cabrera/Willis trade.

 

This has some merit, but I feel like there would be enough teams interested so that this effect would be limited. In reality, I would expect the teams to bid up the price amongst themselves.

By Tim Dierkes [January 21, 2009 at 11:57am CST]The Marlins are less than a million bucks apart with second baseman Dan Uggla; the full list shows that this gap is toward the low end. No matter what happens, Uggla will be the team's second highest-paid player (Hanley Ramirez will earn $5.5MM in '09).

 

Uggla's agent, Jeff Borris, explained that the Fish are not looking to sign his client long-term:

 

"The Marlins are not interested in signing Daniel Uggla to a multiyear contract. We always would be open to listen to anything, but they made it very clear to us they were only going to sign Hanley and Hanley alone."

 

Regarding new acquisition Emilio Bonifacio, Borris noted that "his price is right for the Marlins." The author of the blog post, Mike Berardino, suspects Uggla could be traded by the July deadline if not sooner.

 

Uggla, 29 in March, provides a blast of right-handed power at second base. He hit .260/.360/.514 in 619 plate appearances. His defense was well below-average in '07 but slightly above par in '08, according to John Dewan's plus/minus system. Uggla could be a candidate to play third base if traded. He is under team control through 2011. Teams such as the Twins, Angels, and Giants could make sense.

 

What's your opinion on all this?

 

I think we can disregard the Angels from any potential trade discussions because as far as I know, they are still slightly pissed at us regarding the whole Cabrera deal

Here is the problem. If all other teams know that we want to move Uggla pretty badly, why would they give their best offer? I think this backfired with the Cabrera/Willis trade.

Because Dan Uggla is posting .850+ OPS at 2B and 21 other teams in baseball had sub .760 OPS at 2B in 2008. We're going to have no problem moving Dan when the Marlins do it, and it is the correct organizational decision. It's better to get rid of Uggla a year early than a year late, and the fact we have two good young players at the position makes it easier. There are major red flags with Dan's contact rates, average potential, and all of a sudden not hitting lefties. He isn't 25-26 like Hermida or Cantu where we can expect gains. Dan is older, and will be exiting his prime instead of entering it through the length of any hypothetical deal. We control his rights through 2011, and at this point saving $2-3 million over the span of a three year deal (which is all you get at this stage in savings), isn't worth Uggla potentially falling apart and posting his 2nd half OPS over the course of a season. There is no need to guarantee him money.

 

Ahh this sucks, I love Dan. Can we not pay one more guy, Just a 3 year contract and for 25 mil. If he keeps producing like he has we can still trade him easily with that contract. ( Just a side note I know nothing about what uggla could get or what he would want in a contact or our payroll)

You answered your own complaint with what I bolded. After 2009, the Marlins should see who the gems are from Maybin, Volstad, A. Miller, and Baker for arbitration buyouts, and then 3-4 year deals for Johnson, Nolasco, or Anibal. Those are the only guys we need to lockdown if they are awesome in 2009.

 

Your 3/$25 roundball number is also exactly what Utley got for years 4-6. That is a very reasonable estimate, and something Dan would take if offered. I'd say the Marlins could probably get down to $22ish and he'd probably still do it just to get the longterm security and never have to worry about money again in his life. I still say no to that for the above reasons.

Coghlan's rap is that his defense is shaky especially around the base and no amount of singles and doubles is going to offset what he'd cost in the field nevermind offsetting the loss of production. (That said, I'd give my left n*t to have been as good as CC for even one day).

 

I think one also has to consider this is Berardino's slant on things. He's a columnist not a reporter, he has no ethical obligation to present the whole picture, which is not to say his quotes are inaccurate but there's a contextual issue with columnists generally that brings into question anything they write anytime they cherry-pick quotes. This was a blog, Berardino was not constrained to offer a fuller recounting of his conversation with Dan's agent and I'm left thinking a lot (good and bad) was probably left on the cutting room floor.

Here is the problem. If all other teams know that we want to move Uggla pretty badly, why would they give their best offer? I think this backfired with the Cabrera/Willis trade.

Because Dan Uggla is posting .850+ OPS at 2B and 21 other teams in baseball had sub .760 OPS at 2B in 2008. We're going to have no problem moving Dan when the Marlins do it, and it is the correct organizational decision. It's better to get rid of Uggla a year early than a year late, and the fact we have two good young players at the position makes it easier. There are major red flags with Dan's contact rates, average potential, and all of a sudden not hitting lefties. He isn't 25-26 like Hermida or Cantu where we can expect gains. Dan is older, and will be exiting his prime instead of entering it through the length of any hypothetical deal. We control his rights through 2011, and at this point saving $2-3 million over the span of a three year deal (which is all you get at this stage in savings), isn't worth Uggla potentially falling apart and posting his 2nd half OPS over the course of a season. There is no need to guarantee him money.

 

Ahh this sucks, I love Dan. Can we not pay one more guy, Just a 3 year contract and for 25 mil. If he keeps producing like he has we can still trade him easily with that contract. ( Just a side note I know nothing about what uggla could get or what he would want in a contact or our payroll)

You answered your own complaint with what I bolded. After 2009, the Marlins should see who the gems are from Maybin, Volstad, A. Miller, and Baker for arbitration buyouts, and then 3-4 year deals for Johnson, Nolasco, or Anibal. Those are the only guys we need to lockdown if they are awesome in 2009.

 

Your 3/$25 roundball number is also exactly what Utley got for years 4-6. That is a very reasonable estimate, and something Dan would take if offered. I'd say the Marlins could probably get down to $22ish and he'd probably still do it just to get the longterm security and never have to worry about money again in his life. I still say no to that for the above reasons.

 

 

Well he hasnt given us any reason to think he wont keep producing plus hes durable. IMO hes a gem who we should keep. Id love to keep JJ and Ricky but Im still not sold on either of them like am with Dan . As for anibal i have no confidence in him right now and ill be surpriesd if hes still in the rotation at the AS break. If JJ and Ricky Do great this year then ill part with Dan.

Coghlan's rap is that his defense is shaky especially around the base and no amount of singles and doubles is going to offset what he'd cost in the field nevermind offsetting the loss of production. (That said, I'd give my left n*t to have been as good as CC for even one day).

Get over the fact he made some errors in Carolina already. It's basically universal in the scouting world he is going to be neutral or better at 2B.

 

This is a direct quote from John Sickels 2008 book about Chris Coghlan's defense.

 

"He converted to second base in '07, and made a reasonably smooth adjustment defensively. The glove won't be a problem at higher levels."

 

From last year's BA handbook.

 

"After playing mostly 3b in college, Coghlan adapted well to second. He has improved his pivot and footwork around the bag, and his aptitude an work habits are excellent."

 

And if that is 'to old,' from this year's BA handbook.

 

"Predominantly a 3b in college, he has made himself into a solid second baseman. His baseball smarts and work ethic bode well for him." and

"He has/had an average arm for a 3b, thus being above average for a 2b."

 

 

He's going to be neutral at worst out there. This is the majority opinion and not a big deal. The main concern with Coghlan is going to be the slugging percentage. Is it going to be .400, or is it going to be closer to .450. That's what will make or break him as an above average starter, or just more of an ordinary scrappy hitter.

Well he hasnt given us any reason to think he wont keep producing plus hes durable. IMO hes a gem who we should keep. Id love to keep JJ and Ricky but Im still not sold on either of them like am with . As for anibal i have no confidence in him right now and ill be surpriesd if hes still in the rotation at the AS break. If JJ and Ricky Do great this year then ill part with Dan.

He is a complete pull-streak hitter that whiffs an abnormal amount of times that didn't hit lefties in 2008, and fell apart after the all star break. He also is average defensively at best, but is probably slightly below average looking at his trends for the previous 3 years. He's good and certainly one of the better 2B around, but he's not someone you build around like Hanley, Maybin, or the starting pitchers. He's probably worth the $5.3 he's going to make this year when he wins arbitration, but when that number gets to $8-9, it's just not going to be worth it compared to playing Coghlan, getting a top pitching prospect and more for Uggla, and using that money to retain all of our pitching or buyout Maybin.

Man i just watched the some of the walkoffs in the other thread and dans in alomst every one. Well if he goes i hope Coghlan does great.

Well he hasnt given us any reason to think he wont keep producing plus hes durable. IMO hes a gem who we should keep. Id love to keep JJ and Ricky but Im still not sold on either of them like am with . As for anibal i have no confidence in him right now and ill be surpriesd if hes still in the rotation at the AS break. If JJ and Ricky Do great this year then ill part with Dan.

He is a complete pull-streak hitter that whiffs an abnormal amount of times that didn't hit lefties in 2008, and fell apart after the all star break. He also is average defensively at best, but is probably slightly below average looking at his trends for the previous 3 years. He's good and certainly one of the better 2B around, but he's not someone you build around like Hanley, Maybin, or the starting pitchers. He's probably worth the $5.3 he's going to make this year when he wins arbitration, but when that number gets to $8-9, it's just not going to be worth it compared to playing Coghlan, getting a top pitching prospect and more for Uggla, and using that money to retain all of our pitching or buyout Maybin.

My main problem is trading him this year, I can understand when it gets to the point where he wants some of the numbers you listed.

I cant really argue any of that but I still feel he wasnt all the way back from the ankle injury right before the AS break. Also a team needs one guy who just hits hits bombs its a probelm when you have alot of guys like uggla.

 

Your that positive Maybin is going to be a stud like hanley? I loved what he did in his breif stint up hear last year but he still has alot to prove.

The only way I see Uggla being moved before the AS break is if 1) we are completely out of contention or 2) it's part of a deal that makes this years team better as a whole, at which point it wasn't about moving Uggla but about improving the team.

 

I wouldn't really listen to an agent ranting.

The only way I see Uggla being moved before the AS break is if 1) we are completely out of contention or 2) it's part of a deal that makes this years team better as a whole, at which point it wasn't about moving Uggla but about improving the team.

 

I wouldn't really listen to an agent ranting.

 

Agreed. I tried to revive a thread about Matt Kemp because I think he is a player that could help us NOW. Notwithstanding our young talent in the minors, as far as proven MLB OFs right now we really only have Cody Ross... :confused

Coghlan committed 18 errors at 2nd last year for a .968 not counting his multiple errors throughout the playoffs including two in the last game. He's a helluva prospect but not without his flaws.

 

He has a long way to go defensively, if you think I'm down on the guy I'm not. But at the same time let's not pretend he's ready for play at the major league level defensively, especially for a team who's avowed purpose in 2009 is defense.

Coghlan and hanley up the middle would kill our pitchers espcially guys like Volstad and JJ.

I think that Uggla's agent is correct. I have no doubt that the Marlins will now be shopping Uggla, since he's going to make over $5 million (probably). That's how this team has operated recently with the notable exception of Hanley.

 

My concern right now is that Coghlan has no MLB experience yet. You never know what will happen with these guys, and whether they actually will become MLB quality players, or just players that bounce between AAA and the majors. If the franchise believes that Coghlan can replace Uggla, he needs to SHOW us something in the majors first.

I think that Uggla's agent is correct. I have no doubt that the Marlins will now be shopping Uggla, since he's going to make over $5 million (probably). That's how this team has operated recently with the notable exception of Hanley.

 

My concern right now is that Coghlan has no MLB experience yet. You never know what will happen with these guys, and whether they actually will become MLB quality players, or just players that bounce between AAA and the majors. If the franchise believes that Coghlan can replace Uggla, he needs to SHOW us something in the majors first.

 

A bit of a Catch-22, eh? He won't show us anything until he gets significant playing time, and he won't get significant playing time until Uggla is gone. But Uggla can't go until Coghlan has shown us something in the majors first.....C:/Run/InfiniteLoop

This is for those people who criticized me for the idea of trading Uggla this past July...when his value was at its highest.

 

I never viewed Danny Boy as a long-term guy for this franchise...that's not a knock on him either. The problem with this is that the team seems to really like Emilio Bonifacio...a little too much.

 

This whole "speed and defense" philosophy is getting a little over the top / ridiculous.

This is for those people who criticized me for the idea of trading Uggla this past July...when his value was at its highest.

 

I never viewed Danny Boy as a long-term guy for this franchise...that's not a knock on him either. The problem with this is that the team seems to really like Emilio Bonifacio...a little too much.

 

This whole "speed and defense" philosophy is getting a little over the top / ridiculous.

 

Agreed, but trading him in July would have been suicide with the fan base, and that has to be a legitimate concern. It would've signaled a salary dump, as well as giving up on the season (assuming they would've gotten MiLB prospects) to nearly all but the most knowledge and least far-sighted fans.

It's no secret that we have a crowded IF. It's also no secret that Uggla was never seen as a long term solution at 2B considering Coghlan grooming himself to be the replacement AND the attainment of Bonifacio this offseason. I don't see how anyone who follows this team is surprised.

 

We WILL NOT sign anyone to Long Term deals till the stadium is built. Why don't people get it? Uggla is already approaching the $5 million mark and we are four years away from moving into our new stadium. Can we truly be naive enough to believe he is going to be around then? C'mon. Uggla is out of here no later than the next offseason. Let's not be that optimistic.

I guess next year we won't be soliciting his services. But at least we do get him for one more year...and for the right amount of $.

I think that Uggla's agent is correct. I have no doubt that the Marlins will now be shopping Uggla, since he's going to make over $5 million (probably). That's how this team has operated recently with the notable exception of Hanley.

 

My concern right now is that Coghlan has no MLB experience yet. You never know what will happen with these guys, and whether they actually will become MLB quality players, or just players that bounce between AAA and the majors. If the franchise believes that Coghlan can replace Uggla, he needs to SHOW us something in the majors first.

 

 

Well there really isnt room for him unless uggla goes.

Maybe the reason for signing Bonifacio clears up now. Trading Uggla would allow Bonifacio to play 2B, bringing up Coghlan to play off the bench this year and have him get some xp in the ML's. Just saying..... it could happen. :mis2

5.5 is really a steal if we sign him

 

A guy like Utley getting 85 Million and Uggla only wants 5.5 thats a difference of 79.5 million dollars for players that have had alomst the exact same sucess.

 

Its going to be extremly upsetting if we are not able to resign him.