I'm part of the camp that wishes we had gotten more for him when we had the chance. I strongly advocated trading him in the 2006 offseason and before the deadline in 2007 when his value was relatively high.

 

I won't mention names but some of the people here did not treat my negative projections about Dontrelle's career too kindly.

 

Ultimately I'd like to see him do well with some team but it is foolish to bring this three legged horse back to the Marlins just because of some emotional attachment.

 

I disagree completely. If the Tigers release him at some point this season (which is a high possibility), I would absolutely JUMP at the chance to give him a shot. Wiley was the one who produced the best results out of D-Train, remember that. He had his only success here. His stats love Dolphin Stadium, and the Mets. Picking him up at the league minimum and trying to put him back together again like a re-arranged Mr. Potato Head would be worth every penny. You don't win 22 games on a fluke. It doesn't happen.

First of all, you can't readily correlate Willis' success to Wiley. I happen to think favorably of Wiley but Willis' rise and subsequent decline were considerably fluid and could easily dismissed on account of how he was perceived around the league. Simply, his success was attributed to an unorthodox delivery that enabled him to be on the cutting edge at the early part of his major league career. He won't be the first or last pitcher to find success this way. The fact that he can be a mental headcase on the mound that did not have the stomach to give a good start in the 2003 post-season only works against his recovery. In other words, I find it foolish to assume that Wiley or South Florida will solve this problem which is a combination of a lack of good "stuff," success based upon deception, and a subpar mental game. Not to pat myself on the back but I was one of the first people on this forum (along with Swift) to foresee this decline.

 

Secondly, I don't have any problem signing him to a minor league contract and inviting him to spring training. If he does well, let him pitch out of the bullpen on the big club. However, that is not what most of these people are referring to when they are talking about bringing him back. It would be foolish to sign him to a major league contract and offer him a rotation spot, especially since we have countless promising young arms already in our system. If I'm wrong about what everyone's expectations are, then I apologize.

 

His 22-win season wasn't really a fluke. There is a rational explanation as I've already outlined.

dontrelle is lucky that the detroit front office was dumber than dirt in giving him a long term contract after that 07 season.

First of all, you can't readily correlate Willis' success to Wiley. I happen to think favorably of Wiley but Willis' rise and subsequent decline were considerably fluid and could easily dismissed on account of how he was perceived around the league. Simply, his success was attributed to an unorthodox delivery that enabled him to be on the cutting edge at the early part of his major league career. He won't be the first or last pitcher to find success this way. The fact that he can be a mental headcase on the mound that did not have the stomach to give a good start in the 2003 post-season only works against his recovery. In other words, I find it foolish to assume that Wiley or South Florida will solve this problem which is a combination of a lack of good "stuff," success based upon deception, and a subpar mental game. Not to pat myself on the back but I was one of the first people on this forum (along with Swift) to foresee this decline.

 

Secondly, I don't have any problem signing him to a minor league contract and inviting him to spring training. If he does well, let him pitch out of the bullpen on the big club. However, that is not what most of these people are referring to when they are talking about bringing him back. It would be foolish to sign him to a major league contract and offer him a rotation spot, especially since we have countless promising young arms already in our system. If I'm wrong about what everyone's expectations are, then I apologize.

 

His 22-win season wasn't really a fluke. There is a rational explanation as I've already outlined.

 

You can't say his decline was due to the league figuring him out considering the fact that he got better and better for three years straight. Wiley was widely considered a HUGE reason for Dontrelle's success, and it isn't exactly a secret. That's also another reason why pretty much everyone (including the media) believed we brought Wiley back as our pitching coach for the 2008 season, almost soley to get Dontrelle back on track. I don't think the front office planned on dealing Dontrelle that off-season, and up until the trade itself the general opinion increasingly became that the Marlins were going to keep him. The only reason he was dealt was in order to bring over Maybin and Miller, which could not have been done with Cabrera alone.

 

And if you give Dontrelle a shot as a relief pitcher, you're making a huge mistake. You don't try and rebuild his career by wasting him in the bullpen. We're talking about a lefty that should have won a Cy Young, and pitched three straight seasons of 200+ innings. Why would you waste that potential and durability in the Bullpen? The guy is still just 27-years-old. I agree, nothing more than a minor-league deal and a dream in the clouds... But not as a LOOGY.

He did not "get better and better" over the first three years. He regressed considerably in 2004 so I have no idea where you are getting that from. While I admit this doesn't directly account for his 2005 season, I don't think the pitcher/batter dynamic follows any logically coherent trend. You essentially have a pitcher with unconventional means to success and inevitably he is going to go off of a cliff. How can you automatically assume Wiley was the reason that he improved from 2004 to 2005? What did he specifically do? Why did Willis have success in 2003 but decline in 2004? You are making a lot of assumptions regarding Wiley and not backing them up without any even real logical evidence. Everything you are basing this argument on can be boiled down to coincidence: Dontrelle had his best season in 2005...Wiley was pitching coach in 2005. That's incredibly superficial and you fail to take into account the type of pitcher Willis actually represents.

 

Even if the front office's motivations after the 2007 season were primarily to bring in a personal pitching coach for Willis, that hardly makes them justified. It could just as easily be dismissed as some perceived mental advantage.

 

He should only be handed a rotation spot after he can prove that he can actually pitch well. He hasn't been respectable since 2006. For his sake I hope he bounces back in 2009 but based on the subject matter of this thread, he isn't off to a good start. It doesn't matter if his body is capable of going nine innings every game if he continues to walk batters at the rate he did during his last season with us. You don't give pitchers like that starting spots when we have other guys lined up. You make Willis prove that he can actually still pitch at the major league level and proceed from there.

 

I just think too many people here are overrating his ability.

To those saying we should bring him back, we already have an inconsistent lefty in Miller who is likely to be much better. And I'm no fan of Miller in the short term either.

I would jump at the chance to sign him for the league minimum if he was released from the Tigers. I would stick him in the minors, possible AA and let him work stuff out by allowing him to use his natural motion and not tamper with it. Only if he shows good stuff then he could make an occasional spot start to see how he faces up to major league batters. By that point hopefully he would have regained his confidence to enable him to attack the strikezone and not nibble, which seemingly caused his walk rate to jump drastically in the last few years.

 

For some reason I think we are the only team he would be willing to go through the laborious process with of working for a while in the minors cos he knows our organisation and always had such energy about him here which seemed to disappear as soon as he went to Detroit.

If I say "Well, atleast it was only me in the car during my car accident and not me and my girlfriend", does that mean I am being a meanie head to myself? No, it's just thankful that, while something bad happened to me, it didn't happen to someone else as well.

 

You confused this by putting self-sacrifice in here...It's more like when your girlfriend has an accident and dies. Immediately after at her funeral, you say, well, I did get the best years out of her, and least I wasn't in that jalopy!

 

Even if its true that you are happy you didn't croak, is it really appropriate to talk about those things when more important issues are at stake?

 

Response to the other guy: Of course it matters that I like Dontrelle. No way I would deny this. There are a few players that are integral to the history of this club, and if you don't think Dontrelle is a good one to talk about, imagine doing this kind of grave stomping if Conine got hurt after we moved him to the Orioles.

 

Point of all this: it would be disingenuous to say I don't know where you are coming from. I do. I'm also glad he got paid. The point of this though is that it sucks, and maybe other people should express that instead of expressing the positive that we can take from a sh*tty situation.

 

After writing this, I think I'm realizing that I just hate that Dontrelle has fallen...I didn't mean to get on anyone else there, so sorry.

No, it's more like if you were a Jew living in the Rheinland who moved out when Hitler took power and said "Wow, good thing I left before it got really bad." I wouldn't be happy for those who died, but I would feel thanks that I got the best of it.

 

that's a shameful analogy.

I think he sould go to St. Louis with Dave Duncan that guy always seems to get pitchers back on track.

He did not "get better and better" over the first three years. He regressed considerably in 2004 so I have no idea where you are getting that from. While I admit this doesn't directly account for his 2005 season, I don't think the pitcher/batter dynamic follows any logically coherent trend. You essentially have a pitcher with unconventional means to success and inevitably he is going to go off of a cliff. How can you automatically assume Wiley was the reason that he improved from 2004 to 2005? What did he specifically do? Why did Willis have success in 2003 but decline in 2004? You are making a lot of assumptions regarding Wiley and not backing them up without any even real logical evidence. Everything you are basing this argument on can be boiled down to coincidence: Dontrelle had his best season in 2005...Wiley was pitching coach in 2005. That's incredibly superficial and you fail to take into account the type of pitcher Willis actually represents.

 

Even if the front office's motivations after the 2007 season were primarily to bring in a personal pitching coach for Willis, that hardly makes them justified. It could just as easily be dismissed as some perceived mental advantage.

 

He should only be handed a rotation spot after he can prove that he can actually pitch well. He hasn't been respectable since 2006. For his sake I hope he bounces back in 2009 but based on the subject matter of this thread, he isn't off to a good start. It doesn't matter if his body is capable of going nine innings every game if he continues to walk batters at the rate he did during his last season with us. You don't give pitchers like that starting spots when we have other guys lined up. You make Willis prove that he can actually still pitch at the major league level and proceed from there.

 

I just think too many people here are overrating his ability.

 

I completely agree that he should have to prove once again in the minor leagues that he can regain his composure. I'm not disputing this what so ever.

 

I guess I don't have any "proof" that Wiley was a big reason for his success, but again I don't think it was any secret that he was praised for his success handling Dontrelle, either. And again, it wasn't any secret that bringing back Wiley was almost solely for Dontrelle. As a pitching coach, he is considered a lefty "guru" of sorts, and I think that's a big reason why he is still around and is playing a HUGE part in Miller's development, more so than the development of ANY pitcher in the organization by far.

 

To put Wiley's success and reputation into perspective, his impact to left-handed pitchers is considered the equivilant to what Perry Hill's impact is to infielders.

 

And I also agree with Schnellders, that I don't think he'd be nearly as comfortable anywhere else but here rebuilding his career. He almost fit in as pefectly here as Jeter with the Yanks; a perfect match. I think this would be the only place that would "re-energize" him, and get him excited again.

If I say "Well, atleast it was only me in the car during my car accident and not me and my girlfriend", does that mean I am being a meanie head to myself? No, it's just thankful that, while something bad happened to me, it didn't happen to someone else as well.

 

You confused this by putting self-sacrifice in here...It's more like when your girlfriend has an accident and dies. Immediately after at her funeral, you say, well, I did get the best years out of her, and least I wasn't in that jalopy!

 

Even if its true that you are happy you didn't croak, is it really appropriate to talk about those things when more important issues are at stake?

 

Response to the other guy: Of course it matters that I like Dontrelle. No way I would deny this. There are a few players that are integral to the history of this club, and if you don't think Dontrelle is a good one to talk about, imagine doing this kind of grave stomping if Conine got hurt after we moved him to the Orioles.

 

Point of all this: it would be disingenuous to say I don't know where you are coming from. I do. I'm also glad he got paid. The point of this though is that it sucks, and maybe other people should express that instead of expressing the positive that we can take from a sh*tty situation.

 

After writing this, I think I'm realizing that I just hate that Dontrelle has fallen...I didn't mean to get on anyone else there, so sorry.

No, it's more like if you were a Jew living in the Rheinland who moved out when Hitler took power and said "Wow, good thing I left before it got really bad." I wouldn't be happy for those who died, but I would feel thanks that I got the best of it.

 

that's a shameful analogy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

I can't believe it took that long for someone other than TheAnswer to call me on it.

FYI, I asked Dontrelle's mom to forward on well wishes from myself and the site to Dontrelle and she said to thank the site for that so thanks from Dontrelle's mom.

FYI, I asked Dontrelle's mom to forward on well wishes from myself and the site to Dontrelle and she said to thank the site for that so thanks from Dontrelle's mom.

 

 

Well done Admin.... :thumbup

Anyone think he has a chance of coming back from this, or should he try at playing a position a l'Ankiel?

Poor guy. I really hope he gets his career back on track. He had some good season's in South Florida and was very popular.

D-Train pitched well last night in Lakeland, but lost going 7 innings, allowed 4ER 1HR struckout 2 and walked 0, he's supposed to pitch next in AA.

that's great news considering command was his big problem last year

I wish only the best for D-Train. I honestly think that if we got a stadium deal in place earlier, he would have become the face of the franchise, maybe even in place of Hanley. He was experiencing a downturn, but maybe it was due in part to an uncertain future regarding the team and him trying to step up and putting more pressure on himself. He seemed like a guy who always wants to do his best, and when that doesn't happen he overtries and further deviates. Basically, an unstable system. Just my opinion.

 

I would not be opposed to him returning and competing for a spot, or spending some time in the minors. He was always a joy to watch.

yeah great to see no walks but just 2 K's in 7 IP against A+ competition is pretty bad.

I read though that he was purposely pounding the strike zone as the Tigers staff weren't really concerned with his stats, they just wanted him to try and throw strike after strike (which he was mostly able to do), so that would probably explain the low K numbers / earned runs as he wouldn't have thrown that many balls off the plate for them to chase.

I read though that he was purposely pounding the strike zone as the Tigers staff weren't really concerned with his stats, they just wanted him to try and throw strike after strike (which he was mostly able to do), so that would probably explain the low K numbers / earned runs as he wouldn't have thrown that many balls off the plate for them to chase.

This was my understanding as well. When you're not trying to get anyone to chase, you're not going to get any strikeouts.

Oh word then.

well he was always kinda hyper on the mound, remember, they sometimes had to go out to the mound to calm him down. Remember that?

Well last night Dontrelle pitched like the D-Train of old going 6.1 scoreless innings with only 1 hit and I think 2 walks.

He retired 16 or 17 straight and one point.

All this against a potent Texas offense. Good to see!

Way to go D-Train, I hope he's back in a good place mentally and will do well in the future.