Josh Johnson : 2.67 ERA, 8/10 QS, 6.7 IP/GS

Chris Volstad : 3.69 ERA, 6/10 QS, 6.1 IP/GS

 

Rest of starters : 7.35 ERA, 4/28 QS, 4.4 IP/GS

 

THIS is THE problem.

 

All this talk about Bonifacio(ut) & the lineup...

 

The bottom line is, you're not going anywhere when 60 % of your rotation has allowed 101 ER in 123.2 innings, has given you a quality start 14% of the time, averaging less than 5 innings per start.

 

No team wins games like that. That's not bad...that's just attrocious.

 

And not only is it hurting the team by not keeping it in games, but the bullpen is being overused b/c of this.

 

Someone has to step up, and realistically speaking, the way our rotation is set up right now, I really don't see how anyone can have confidence in Badenhop/Penn (those are 5th starters, at best, nothing more), and Sean West (the one who belongs in the minors & is not ready yet).

 

This leaves Andrew Miller...not to put pressure on the guy, but he realllyyyy has to step up. (along with Nolasco and Anibal making speedy returns, and coming back to their normal selves...especially Nolasco).

The pitching is the biggest problem no doubt, but that doesn't eliminate all the problems on both sides of the ball. Of course our starting pitching dwarfs the negative effect that Bonifacio has on our winning %, but our O has been putrid, so its going to come up.

The pitching is the biggest problem no doubt, but that doesn't eliminate all the problems on both sides of the ball. Of course our starting pitching dwarfs the negative effect that Bonifacio has on our winning %, but our O has been putrid, so its going to come up.

 

 

I understand perfectly, but fact is Bonifacio(ut) is actually getting more attention...and really, this should be getting the most attention. No team will be a winner under these circumstances, especially one that was built around pitching.

Our offense is third worst in the NL and our SP is second worst. I don't understand the constant arguing of which one is "worse", you can't win with either of those being that bad. Both need to improve. But blaming Bonifacio solely for our offensive problems is dumb, he's part of the problem but he's not the problem.

Getting Bonifacio out of the lineup would still help out alot.

 

But Erick is right. Andrew Miller has to step up, and it looks like he is. His last outing was magnificent. Let's hope he capitilizes on it and gives us another great performance. Lord knows that would do wonders for his confidence.

...most people were predicting our rotation to be awesome ("one of the best - if not THE best in the NL" I think a couple of guys said). Whilst Nolasco's troubles would have been admittedly difficult to predict, both Sanchez and Miller's potential woes and fragile bodies come as no surprise. However, it is much easier for these guys to say "I told you so" about Bonifacio than to admit they were wrong about the starting pitching.

 

Having said all this, this time last year ten over .500 with a rotation of Hendrickson, Nolasco, Olsen, Miller, and Vanderhurk/Badenhop/Tucker.

We have an immediate answer to the problem that is Bonifacio.... for the pitching though, we don't really have a solution... unless we make a trade or something.

Yes, he's a problem but is one of several problems. The hate he gets is ridiculous.

Well, he does lead the nl in outs.

That's because he has more PAs than others. He has a higher OBP than Ross, Maybin and Fredo and has pretty much the same OBP as Helms and Coglhan.

None of this guys has spent more than a couple of games at the leadoff spot. Bonifacio ranks 12 in plate appearances in baseball and first in outs. Hell, even the phillies moved a former MVP out of the leadoff spot when he sucked!

 

I agree they've all been bad. Bonifacio has been put into a position where his failings as a player are highlighted and the fo seems to not care about those failings because of his speed. If there seemed to be a more logical reason for him to continue where he is, i'd be more forgiving, but as is I haven't seen much to warrant him continuing to hold onto a spot he has not earned. Especially since even his legitimate skills aren't showing up lately, namely speed and defense.

 

I know I get grouped in with the 'haters' but I'd like to think I'm fairly reasoned in my posts about bonifacio. I'm no more a bonifacio hater than you are(were?) a hermida 'hater'.

I think it should be pointed out that the reason he leads the league in making outs is because the manager is a moron and not because he's the "best" player in the league in making outs.

He's also something like 12th worst among qualifying players at not making outs (OBP).

 

There's not much you can say to defend him, he's stunk. Is he made to look worse because of where's he's batting? Would there be less hitching if he had hit 8th all year like most wanted?

 

Absolutely. But the point remains that he's been nothing short of terrible for us, and this has been exasperated by hitting leadoff.

 

And I'm sure bronco will come in tomorrow morning and make reference to how he 'looks better,' and how he tries harder than anyone, and looked better than coghlan in st and all of that stuff that is ultimately meaningless because it is entirely unquantifiable(but will nonetheless be all he brings to the conversation) but it's amounted to a whole lot of nothing this season.

 

Move him out of the leadoff spot, if he's still emilio bonifacio when gaby is healthy and hitting in aaa, don't you have to make that move?

Is our SP worse than last years at this time? I think part of the reason Boni/offense gets crap is last year we had terrible starters yet we won by hitting and people feel the same should happen.

Is our SP worse than last years at this time? I think part of the reason Boni/offense gets crap is last year we had terrible starters yet we won by hitting and people feel the same should happen.

 

 

Probably right. We were smacking alot of HRs in the first half last year. We only had Nolasco pitching well and Olsen eating innings but the last three rotation spots were pretty bad. It seems like this year though our staff is giving up a lot of big innings: multi-run homers, two-out rallies, etc. Last year at least the long-ball bailed us out in some close games but this year it seems like we're letting the games get too far out of hand. Just my impression.

Whether Boni is the problem or not-basically, last night here is what you got with Helms there:

1. As good as if not better defense.

2. Professional at bats, clutch hits, power, RBI's

3. A more solid lineup top to bottom.

 

Sorry, no hate here, I just feel so much more comfortable with Wes batting in the lineup and watching Chris have quality at bats at the top. To me, that at bat the other day when he fouled off pitch after pitch was almost like the turning point for him, and the three foul ball bunt attempts by Boni was the opposite-just unacceptable.

I would have gone with Gaby over Boni out of ST so once Gaby is healthy I would give him a shot.

 

I don't know what is meant by a "professional at bat" but I know just about every "professional at batter" is a veteran media friendly white guy who can't hit. Helms had a great game but one game doesn't undo the damage he has done the past 2+ years. I don't think he's good.

If your house is hit by a tornado, you don't ignore the fact most of your possessions have been destroyed just because the roof is gone and you have nowhere to sleep. They are both big problems that have to be dealt with sooner or later. And the same goes for Bonifacio and our SP situation.

I would have gone with Gaby over Boni out of ST so once Gaby is healthy I would give him a shot.

 

I don't know what is meant by a "professional at bat" but I know just about every "professional at batter" is a veteran media friendly white guy who can't hit. Helms had a great game but one game doesn't undo the damage he has done the past 2+ years. I don't think he's good.

 

How about the term "a good piece of hitting".

Seriously? Helms has one good game, and you lavish him with praise? Did you miss all of those professional at bats where he struck looking completely clueless? He's not really any of the things you mentioned especially at his age.

Bonifacio's main (only?) asset is his speed.

Does this "asset" not become null and void by the fact that he is a terrible base runner? I wouldn't be surprised if he leads the league in getting picked off, and he gets caught stealing way too often for someone with that much speed. For "one of the fastest guys in baseball" shouldn't he almost never get thrown out? See: Crawford, Carl; Beltran, Carlos hell even david wright (who is not half as fast as Bonifacio, and gets 'lowercased')

I know pitching has been the main problem so far, but your lead-off hitter should have a higher OBP than .296, which is what I think Bonifacio's was as of Sunday if I recall the scoreboard stats correctly

This team's strength was supposed to be its starting pitching.

 

The front office said it, baseball "experts" said it, most of us said it.

Bonifacio (based on past #'s) was expected to suck.

 

As of right now, the bigger problem is the pitching b/c with the lineup we have some options/platoon choices to use.

 

Our pitching depth simply sucks right now.

 

As I said, for those who haven't found out...just like Bonifacio wasn't/isn't the answer...Sean West will not be the answer this year, either.

 

Right now, we're relying on an inconsistent Andrew Miller to step up & Ricky Nolasco to comeback (which should at least take a couple weeks, I'm sure).

 

Our lineup might be very mediocre looking at the moment, but to me, it's quite irrelevant when 60% (3-5 starters) don't even give this team a CHANCE to win.

 

And if they continue to suck, the bullpen will only be worse...which makes things worse.

Removing Bonifast and sending him to AAA to work on going deeper into counts is something that is in the team's power to immediately correct without going outside the organization, without spending a ton of money on a dubious free agent veteran, and without more than the price of a plane ticket. Getting Nolasco back on track is not. Getting Anibal back from the DL is not.

 

So Bonifacio is THE problem you can fix right now. And you can talk about the lineup not being "THE" problem all you want, but it was all together there would be 4-5 more wins which would have this team in first or right there, which is what a good lineup could do for you while your other problems get straightened out.

Exactly.

 

Erick, you aren't saying anything that is incorrect, it's just not relevant. For the most part, our teams major struggles have to correct themselves if we are going to improve. You can reasonably expect ricky, danny, Cody and miller and anibal (to a much lesser degree) to improve at least somewhat.

 

The same cannot really be said for emilio. This is probably what he is right now. We can expect to improve on that with any number of players.