I can really care less who our manager is. Our players are not getting the job done. We had opportunities to win the game tonight, and we didn't.

Although, the IBB to Bako was just retarded. My friend, who doesn't even like baseball that much, told me isn't that a stupid decision. I told him he's doing it to get a force out at every base, lol.

I want billy martin hung up on strings in the dugout calling the game with a ouija board--

One of these things--

Niner would look badass as the Fish's skipper. And he's just the type of baseball person I like, tough and no-nonsense BS, not soft like Fredi. Sometimes its good to kick the player's butts every once in a while.

What the hell was up with Bonifacio trying to bunt for a basehit with 2 outs and runners at the corners? Cantu HAD to bunt in the 9th with 2 on and no outs. It doesn't matter if EB would score from second on a hit. But he definitely wouldn't score from second on a wild pitch or fly out. Heck, even a grounder could score EB from third. The Phils would have had to bring the infield in and any bloop would have done the trick. Freddy screwed up trying to play big, when the team isn't hitting. Also, the runners were very stationary. If the team isn't hitting, you have to try to create something. I rather go down trying, then go down bending over to a rival.

Who cares who manages when we have hermida and uggla in the lineup. How you all think he is so important is beyond me. Switch uggla for freddy sanchez and we win tjat game last night twice

What the hell was up with Bonifacio trying to bunt for a basehit with 2 outs and runners at the corners? Cantu HAD to bunt in the 9th with 2 on and no outs. It doesn't matter if EB would score from second on a hit. But he definitely wouldn't score from second on a wild pitch or fly out. Heck, even a grounder could score EB from third. The Phils would have had to bring the infield in and any bloop would have done the trick. Freddy screwed up trying to play big, when the team isn't hitting. Also, the runners were very stationary. If the team isn't hitting, you have to try to create something. I rather go down trying, then go down bending over to a rival.

 

Dude face it. Everything is fredis fault. If he bunts there then he's the bad guy for taking the bat out of cantus hand,

No one is saying that the players didn't have a hand in this loss. But the manager isn't asked to do all that much, and Fredi is clearly blowing the few things that he actually does have to do during a game. Again, whether you think it effected the outcome of the game DOESN'T MATTER....its still stupid. How anyone can trust this guy to manage anything beyond McDonald's is mind boggling.

Werth wasn't exactly lighting it up so I can understand it. Dumb move, but that game should be over 2 times had any type of big hit

No one is saying that the players didn't have a hand in this loss. But the manager isn't asked to do all that much, and Fredi is clearly blowing the few things that he actually does have to do during a game. Again, whether you think it effected the outcome of the game DOESN'T MATTER....its still stupid. How anyone can trust this guy to manage anything beyond McDonald's is mind boggling.

 

 

It is still stupid, but if it didn't affect the game or he doesn't affect most games, then it isn't an immediate concern. I think pondering over whether or not it affected the game is a valid point. Doesn't make the decision less stupid, but it puts it in context, and can either magnify or minimize the problem. If he didn't affect the game, then why focus on him?

 

It is like you have an old jalopy. Its engine is failing, one of its tires is flat, and its air conditioning (Fredi) doesn't work. Yeah, not having AC when its hot out sucks, but it is not the main reason why you can't get to work.

 

Again, I ask, if Fredi is such a piss-poor manager, how were/are we still in contention for the NL East and the wildcard? Yes, the NL East stinks a bit this year, but we are still in second place, where if Fredi was so poor, we could be at the bottom. How are we a .500 team, especially with our starting pitching troubles from earlier in the year and our offense? Fredi might not ever get us to the playoffs, but he isn't actively keeping us out of contention and in the cellar. He is, at the end of the day, probably an average manager. And all managers, good or bad, make boneheaded decisions sometimes, especially in hindsight.

What the hell was up with Bonifacio trying to bunt for a basehit with 2 outs and runners at the corners? Cantu HAD to bunt in the 9th with 2 on and no outs. It doesn't matter if EB would score from second on a hit. But he definitely wouldn't score from second on a wild pitch or fly out. Heck, even a grounder could score EB from third. The Phils would have had to bring the infield in and any bloop would have done the trick. Freddy screwed up trying to play big, when the team isn't hitting. Also, the runners were very stationary. If the team isn't hitting, you have to try to create something. I rather go down trying, then go down bending over to a rival.

 

 

They wanted to get Hanley to the plate with the bases loaded in hopes he would not only knock in a run by hit or walk (because they certainly wouldn't be throwing him anything they *thought* he could drive) but knock in enough runs to put the game out of reach.

 

But once again let's just blame Bonifacio for everything because it's so convenient and plays so well here at MB.com.

The manager's job is to impart knowledge to his players. Its one thing to fail at physical aspects of the game, such as getting a hit. Its another thing to be beaten by Jamie Moyer so many times because the hitters are TOLD BY THE HITTING COACH (obviously with Fredi's blessing) not to change their approach.

 

 

 

The manager's job is to put his team in the best position to win.

Something Fredi has failed to do several times this year...tonight, he just took it to another level of stupidity.

 

Everyone is still overlooking the main problem. We had two runners on with no outs in the ninth and didn't score when it would have ended the game. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with that?

 

Well if I was the Manager and we are facing a team that leads our division by 4 or 5 games with the winning run on 2nd with 0 outs no matter whose hitting you bunt him over to 3rd.

 

Then you have men on 2nd and 3rd with one out there's a 66% chance that the runner scores. Plus with Bonifacio on 3rd a groundball might even score him or a decently hit fly ball.

 

Then after that if we don't end up scoring I wouldn't be mad because he made the smart move instead of just letting his hitters go down 1,2,3 with Boni and Hanley on.

 

Another thing he could have done is another one of those hit and runs he had been doing throughout the game.

he's not going anywhere because they just signed him to an extension. and i've always said this guy was a piece of sh*t and is only sticking around because he's the FO's bitch. i've hated him since he didn't argue that call last season when victorino hit a clear foul ball and they called a homerun and he didn't do anything. the guy doesn't stand up for his players and will never earn respect.

No one is saying that the players didn't have a hand in this loss. But the manager isn't asked to do all that much, and Fredi is clearly blowing the few things that he actually does have to do during a game. Again, whether you think it effected the outcome of the game DOESN'T MATTER....its still stupid. How anyone can trust this guy to manage anything beyond McDonald's is mind boggling.

 

 

It is still stupid, but if it didn't affect the game or he doesn't affect most games, then it isn't an immediate concern. I think pondering over whether or not it affected the game is a valid point. Doesn't make the decision less stupid, but it puts it in context, and can either magnify or minimize the problem. If he didn't affect the game, then why focus on him?

 

It is like you have an old jalopy. Its engine is failing, one of its tires is flat, and its air conditioning (Fredi) doesn't work. Yeah, not having AC when its hot out sucks, but it is not the main reason why you can't get to work.

 

Again, I ask, if Fredi is such a piss-poor manager, how were/are we still in contention for the NL East and the wildcard? Yes, the NL East stinks a bit this year, but we are still in second place, where if Fredi was so poor, we could be at the bottom. How are we a .500 team, especially with our starting pitching troubles from earlier in the year and our offense? Fredi might not ever get us to the playoffs, but he isn't actively keeping us out of contention and in the cellar. He is, at the end of the day, probably an average manager. And all managers, good or bad, make boneheaded decisions sometimes, especially in hindsight.

 

 

The Marlins are a .500 team b/c of the talent they have.

A manager's job isn't to win or lose a ballgame. It's to put his players in the best position to win. There have been plenty of times where Fredi Gonzalez hasn't done that this year. Period. The only significant positive thing that Fredi Gonzalez has done this year is the fact he's given Brett Carroll a chance against lefties...something I probably never would've done. Aside from that, he's been garbage.

And btw...bunting with Cantu is not a good idea. I guess I take back what I said about the majority of the board managing better than him (Fredi).

And btw...bunting with Cantu is not a good idea. I guess I take back what I said about the majority of the board managing better than him (Fredi).

 

 

 

yea lets bunt with are clean up hitter the guy who is ....supposed to drive the runs in. some people on here really need to think before they post

And btw...bunting with Cantu is not a good idea. I guess I take back what I said about the majority of the board managing better than him (Fredi).

 

 

 

yea lets bunt with are clean up hitter the guy who is ....supposed to drive the runs in. some people on here really need to think before they post

 

It also would have been to set up a guy (Cody Ross) who strikes out 1 in every 4 and has a contact rate of 77% which is below league average. In other words, not a contact hitter, which is what you want with a guy at 3 and less than two outs.

 

There are only two people on the team who IMO you bunt a position player with to set up a guy at 3 and less than two outs with: Hanley and Cantu. And considering the fact that Hanley hits infront of Cantu, and you damn sure don't bunt with him, that means that the only practical time would be to set up Hanley. They're the only guys that strike out under 20% out of the starters, and those two and CC and Baker are the only ones with contact rates above 80% (league average). However, I question CC's and Baker's power too much to trust them to drive a run in.

And btw...bunting with Cantu is not a good idea. I guess I take back what I said about the majority of the board managing better than him (Fredi).

 

 

 

yea lets bunt with are clean up hitter the guy who is ....supposed to drive the runs in. some people on here really need to think before they post

 

It also would have been to set up a guy (Cody Ross) who strikes out 1 in every 4 and has a contact rate of 77% which is below league average. In other words, not a contact hitter, which is what you want with a guy at 3 and less than two outs.

 

There are only two people on the team who IMO you bunt a position player with to set up a guy at 3 and less than two outs with: Hanley and Cantu. And considering the fact that Hanley hits infront of Cantu, and you damn sure don't bunt with him, that means that the only practical time would be to set up Hanley. They're the only guys that strike out under 20% out of the starters, and those two and CC and Baker are the only ones with contact rates above 80% (league average). However, I question CC's and Baker's power too much to trust them to drive a run in.

 

Yeah but Cody is also a fly ball hitter when he does make contact, and with Bonifacio at third it wouldn't have taken much. And I would say a hitter is a lot less likely to strike out if he knows he just has to go up there and get the ball in the air, instead of having to get a hit.

 

However that reminds me that Bonifacio really should have tried to grab third on that deep Cantu fly. I realize it was to LF but with his speed and the fact that he would be in sac fly range, it was the type of chance you should really take.

Even if Cantu lays the bunt down (which is a big if, considering he's not very experienced at it, I'm sure)...there's no reason to believe the Phillies pitch to Cody Ross with 1B open.

Even if Cantu lays the bunt down (which is a big if, considering he's not very experienced at it, I'm sure)...there's no reason to believe the Phillies pitch to Cody Ross with 1B open.

 

 

True, but walking Cody wouldn't take the winning run off third.

I'm bunting anyone in the league in that situation except for Albert Pujols because if the bunt is successful then the options to score and conclude the game are: single, pass ball, sac fly, wild pitch, balk, plus the double play is not in effect. Hell anything would of been better than what they did last night.

No one is saying that the players didn't have a hand in this loss. But the manager isn't asked to do all that much, and Fredi is clearly blowing the few things that he actually does have to do during a game. Again, whether you think it effected the outcome of the game DOESN'T MATTER....its still stupid. How anyone can trust this guy to manage anything beyond McDonald's is mind boggling.

 

 

It is still stupid, but if it didn't affect the game or he doesn't affect most games, then it isn't an immediate concern. I think pondering over whether or not it affected the game is a valid point. Doesn't make the decision less stupid, but it puts it in context, and can either magnify or minimize the problem. If he didn't affect the game, then why focus on him?

 

It is like you have an old jalopy. Its engine is failing, one of its tires is flat, and its air conditioning (Fredi) doesn't work. Yeah, not having AC when its hot out sucks, but it is not the main reason why you can't get to work.

 

Again, I ask, if Fredi is such a piss-poor manager, how were/are we still in contention for the NL East and the wildcard? Yes, the NL East stinks a bit this year, but we are still in second place, where if Fredi was so poor, we could be at the bottom. How are we a .500 team, especially with our starting pitching troubles from earlier in the year and our offense? Fredi might not ever get us to the playoffs, but he isn't actively keeping us out of contention and in the cellar. He is, at the end of the day, probably an average manager. And all managers, good or bad, make boneheaded decisions sometimes, especially in hindsight.

 

 

The Marlins are a .500 team b/c of the talent they have.

A manager's job isn't to win or lose a ballgame. It's to put his players in the best position to win. There have been plenty of times where Fredi Gonzalez hasn't done that this year. Period. The only significant positive thing that Fredi Gonzalez has done this year is the fact he's given Brett Carroll a chance against lefties...something I probably never would've done. Aside from that, he's been garbage.

 

I don't think he is garbage, though he does make some boneheaded decisions at times. But all managers do that.

 

In my opinion, the talent has been struggling this year, from the starting pitching to the starting lineup. That's why I find it hard to say he is garbage. The team is Jekyll and Hyde. It is hard to judge how well he is giving chances to win when those other factors are interfering.

 

Note: this does not excuse decisions like last night. But may excuse some of his lineup decisions and other pitching choices.