what are to's?

 

if you give johnson a 2 year 3.5 mill deal, then we should go for it and not look back. every team needs a guy like him in the 2 spot. and kiko probably wont stay, i know that.

 

 

why the hell would he take a paycut when he's having a good year and has been mostly injury-free. try 2 years and 10-12 million

 

 

if you were a gm and you offered nick johnson 10-12 million you would be fired on the spot

 

if you were an agent and advised nick johnson to take a 2 year 3.5 million deal you'd be fired.

 

you've got to be a total moron to believe he'd accept that kind of deal

what are to's?

 

if you give johnson a 2 year 3.5 mill deal, then we should go for it and not look back. every team needs a guy like him in the 2 spot. and kiko probably wont stay, i know that.

 

 

why the hell would he take a paycut when he's having a good year and has been mostly injury-free. try 2 years and 10-12 million

 

 

if you were a gm and you offered nick johnson 10-12 million you would be fired on the spot

 

 

NJ has the 2nd highest OBP in the majors (just behind Pujols) this season, and has been healthy nearly the entire season. He'll get AT LEAST 10-12 million in free agency.

 

And if guys like Cashman can keep a job after giving guys like Vazquez and Pavano the money they did, Beinfest would be praised for getting an awesome Nick Johnson for that kind of cash in today's baseball economy where player's look to get way overpaid in free agency after one good year.

this website should really acquire every member to take an IQ test before they can post

what are to's?

 

if you give johnson a 2 year 3.5 mill deal, then we should go for it and not look back. every team needs a guy like him in the 2 spot. and kiko probably wont stay, i know that.

 

I meant my sentence. I put the word "to" an almost uncomfortable amount of times in there.

 

And I'd love to keep NJ, I just don't think he'd get the best deal from us and think he's looking for safe money. Plus, He's going to get at LEAST 4 a year, if not more.

 

 

AND I don't think we're going to want him in 2011 but we could always trade him.

For starters, a managerial change.

i would say re sign nick johnson for a year and then not start jeremy hermida.

 

solidify the rotation and closer roles and bring back kiko brian and donnelly. hence keep the bullpen intact. it is very important.

 

with a strong rotation and cameron maybin coming around this team can win. they are not that far away.

 

def keep gload and i think it would also want to keep uggla he plays a solid second base and his on base is good with good power. but if we can get a lot in a trade then maybe that would work.

 

def bring back cantu as well. i know his home runs are down but hes on pace for over 90 rbi again.

 

and guys bobby abreu had a .300 avg and 100 rbi season last year and only got a 1 year 5 million dollar deal. nick johnson's production has not been nearly as good albeit his great on base% AND abreu has been consistently healthier than johnson as well.

 

a 2 year/5-6 mill deal for johnson is very possible.

i would say re sign nick johnson for a year and then not start jeremy hermida.

 

solidify the rotation and closer roles and bring back kiko brian and donnelly. hence keep the bullpen intact. it is very important.

 

with a strong rotation and cameron maybin coming around this team can win. they are not that far away.

 

def keep gload and i think it would also want to keep uggla he plays a solid second base and his on base is good with good power. but if we can get a lot in a trade then maybe that would work.

 

def bring back cantu as well. i know his home runs are down but hes on pace for over 90 rbi again.

 

and guys bobby abreu had a .300 avg and 100 rbi season last year and only got a 1 year 5 million dollar deal. nick johnson's production has not been nearly as good albeit his great on base% AND abreu has been consistently healthier than johnson as well.

 

a 2 year/5-6 mill deal for johnson is very possible.

 

 

Are you donating $30 million to the Marlins Salary Cap Fund?

Because otherwise there is no way we can afford that.

 

As an aside, is there any way we can backload JJ's contract extension (assuming we give him one) so that we maybe save a couple of million for 2010? By 2012 hopefully Loria won't mind ramping up the bucks.

i would say re sign nick johnson for a year and then not start jeremy hermida.

 

solidify the rotation and closer roles and bring back kiko brian and donnelly. hence keep the bullpen intact. it is very important.

 

with a strong rotation and cameron maybin coming around this team can win. they are not that far away.

 

def keep gload and i think it would also want to keep uggla he plays a solid second base and his on base is good with good power. but if we can get a lot in a trade then maybe that would work.

 

def bring back cantu as well. i know his home runs are down but hes on pace for over 90 rbi again.

 

and guys bobby abreu had a .300 avg and 100 rbi season last year and only got a 1 year 5 million dollar deal. nick johnson's production has not been nearly as good albeit his great on base% AND abreu has been consistently healthier than johnson as well.

 

a 2 year/5-6 mill deal for johnson is very possible.

 

 

Are you donating $30 million to the Marlins Salary Cap Fund?

Because otherwise there is no way we can afford that.

 

As an aside, is there any way we can backload JJ's contract extension (assuming we give him one) so that we maybe save a couple of million for 2010? By 2012 hopefully Loria won't mind ramping up the bucks.

 

 

I would give him the long-term contract as soon as he's ready to negotiate. Pitchers are always risky to give long-term contracts to, especially for small market teams...but there aren't too many Josh Johnson's in the big leagues.

 

Saving money is not a big deal, imo, b/c the core players (Hanley, Coghlan, Maybin, Morrison, Stanton, Dominguez, etc.) are here for the long-term (2012 and beyond). The key is to keep that core for a considerable amount of time, and build around it. The Marlins can find respectable cheap options, if need be, to fill other holes. They've proven it in the past, specifically with relievers.

i would say re sign nick johnson for a year and then not start jeremy hermida.

 

solidify the rotation and closer roles and bring back kiko brian and donnelly. hence keep the bullpen intact. it is very important.

 

with a strong rotation and cameron maybin coming around this team can win. they are not that far away.

 

def keep gload and i think it would also want to keep uggla he plays a solid second base and his on base is good with good power. but if we can get a lot in a trade then maybe that would work.

 

def bring back cantu as well. i know his home runs are down but hes on pace for over 90 rbi again.

 

and guys bobby abreu had a .300 avg and 100 rbi season last year and only got a 1 year 5 million dollar deal. nick johnson's production has not been nearly as good albeit his great on base% AND abreu has been consistently healthier than johnson as well.

 

a 2 year/5-6 mill deal for johnson is very possible.

 

 

Are you donating $30 million to the Marlins Salary Cap Fund?

Because otherwise there is no way we can afford that.

 

As an aside, is there any way we can backload JJ's contract extension (assuming we give him one) so that we maybe save a couple of million for 2010? By 2012 hopefully Loria won't mind ramping up the bucks.

 

 

I would give him the long-term contract as soon as he's ready to negotiate. Pitchers are always risky to give long-term contracts to, especially for small market teams...but there aren't too many Josh Johnson's in the big leagues.

 

Saving money is not a big deal, imo, b/c the core players (Hanley, Coghlan, Maybin, Morrison, Stanton, Dominguez, etc.) are here for the long-term (2012 and beyond). The key is to keep that core for a considerable amount of time, and build around it. The Marlins can find respectable cheap options, if need be, to fill other holes. They've proven it in the past, specifically with relievers.

 

I agree with nearly all of this. I'm just saying, for example, let's say the Marlins payroll max for next year is $40 million. Lou has JJ slated to make like $6 million, I think? If we do give him that extension, I'm wondering if we can pay him $4 million in 2010, for example, but add more later. Saving $2 million next year might be the difference in resigning NJ or something, whereas in 2012 $2 million should make a big difference to the product we ultimately put on the field.

i would say re sign nick johnson for a year and then not start jeremy hermida.

 

solidify the rotation and closer roles and bring back kiko brian and donnelly. hence keep the bullpen intact. it is very important.

 

with a strong rotation and cameron maybin coming around this team can win. they are not that far away.

 

def keep gload and i think it would also want to keep uggla he plays a solid second base and his on base is good with good power. but if we can get a lot in a trade then maybe that would work.

 

def bring back cantu as well. i know his home runs are down but hes on pace for over 90 rbi again.

 

and guys bobby abreu had a .300 avg and 100 rbi season last year and only got a 1 year 5 million dollar deal. nick johnson's production has not been nearly as good albeit his great on base% AND abreu has been consistently healthier than johnson as well.

 

a 2 year/5-6 mill deal for johnson is very possible.

 

 

Are you donating $30 million to the Marlins Salary Cap Fund?

Because otherwise there is no way we can afford that.

 

As an aside, is there any way we can backload JJ's contract extension (assuming we give him one) so that we maybe save a couple of million for 2010? By 2012 hopefully Loria won't mind ramping up the bucks.

 

 

I would give him the long-term contract as soon as he's ready to negotiate. Pitchers are always risky to give long-term contracts to, especially for small market teams...but there aren't too many Josh Johnson's in the big leagues.

 

Saving money is not a big deal, imo, b/c the core players (Hanley, Coghlan, Maybin, Morrison, Stanton, Dominguez, etc.) are here for the long-term (2012 and beyond). The key is to keep that core for a considerable amount of time, and build around it. The Marlins can find respectable cheap options, if need be, to fill other holes. They've proven it in the past, specifically with relievers.

 

I agree with nearly all of this. I'm just saying, for example, let's say the Marlins payroll max for next year is $40 million. Lou has JJ slated to make like $6 million, I think? If we do give him that extension, I'm wondering if we can pay him $4 million in 2010, for example, but add more later. Saving $2 million next year might be the difference in resigning NJ or something, whereas in 2012 $2 million should make a big difference to the product we ultimately put on the field.

 

 

In that case, yeah that would make sense. There a lot of contracts like that with incentives, etc.

i would say re sign nick johnson for a year and then not start jeremy hermida.

 

solidify the rotation and closer roles and bring back kiko brian and donnelly. hence keep the bullpen intact. it is very important.

 

with a strong rotation and cameron maybin coming around this team can win. they are not that far away.

 

def keep gload and i think it would also want to keep uggla he plays a solid second base and his on base is good with good power. but if we can get a lot in a trade then maybe that would work.

 

def bring back cantu as well. i know his home runs are down but hes on pace for over 90 rbi again.

 

and guys bobby abreu had a .300 avg and 100 rbi season last year and only got a 1 year 5 million dollar deal. nick johnson's production has not been nearly as good albeit his great on base% AND abreu has been consistently healthier than johnson as well.

 

a 2 year/5-6 mill deal for johnson is very possible.

 

 

Are you donating $30 million to the Marlins Salary Cap Fund?

Because otherwise there is no way we can afford that.

 

As an aside, is there any way we can backload JJ's contract extension (assuming we give him one) so that we maybe save a couple of million for 2010? By 2012 hopefully Loria won't mind ramping up the bucks.

 

 

I would give him the long-term contract as soon as he's ready to negotiate. Pitchers are always risky to give long-term contracts to, especially for small market teams...but there aren't too many Josh Johnson's in the big leagues.

 

Saving money is not a big deal, imo, b/c the core players (Hanley, Coghlan, Maybin, Morrison, Stanton, Dominguez, etc.) are here for the long-term (2012 and beyond). The key is to keep that core for a considerable amount of time, and build around it. The Marlins can find respectable cheap options, if need be, to fill other holes. They've proven it in the past, specifically with relievers.

 

Johnson is worth the investment. As crazy as it might seem, except for the Tommy John episode (which we can assume was really the problem in September 2006 and they just didn't get it right till the following year) he's actually been pretty durable. A guy like Ricky Nolasco, who has missed significant time with lingering issues (I believe the shoulder, which is much of a concern than one and done TJ) would be a much riskier bet, obvious talent differences aside.

 

And backloading the contract would make it easy for Loria to get a steal for a couple years, then deal him whenever he gets expensive.

We need a legitimate back of the bullpen guy so that our crop of solid set up men don't have to be abused and overused.

 

We need retain Uggla, play Coghlan in the IF and either suck it up with Cantu at 1B or try out Morrisson. I doubt Nick Johnson would stay for what we would pay, and I doubt that he fits into any long term plans anyhow.

 

Though I expect the team to move some of these guys anyhow I would like to see:

 

C: Baker

1B: Morrisson

2B: Uggla

3B: Coghlan

SS: Ramirez

LF: Hermida

CF: Maybin

RF: Ross

 

If the team moves Hermida (likely), then put Coghlan in LF and Cantu at 3B.

We need a legitimate back of the bullpen guy so that our crop of solid set up men don't have to be abused and overused.

 

We need retain Uggla, play Coghlan in the IF and either suck it up with Cantu at 1B or try out Morrisson. I doubt Nick Johnson would stay for what we would pay, and I doubt that he fits into any long term plans anyhow.

 

Though I expect the team to move some of these guys anyhow I would like to see:

 

C: Baker

1B: Morrisson

2B: Uggla

3B: Coghlan

SS: Ramirez

LF: Hermida

CF: Maybin

RF: Ross

 

If the team moves Hermida (likely), then put Coghlan in LF and Cantu at 3B.

 

 

 

God, I hope we don't waste money on one of those.

Eric, wouldn't it make more sense to keep Cantu, get the two first round picks after next season in compensation, while putting Morrison in LF? Other than that I like the lineup

This is how I see it

 

CF Maybin

2B Coghlan

SS Ramirez

1B Cantu

C John Baker/Paulino

RF Ross

LF Morrison

3B Sanchez

 

I don't believe the ownership views Sanchez as a long term starting piece at 3B, but with Nick Johnson probably gone, I see a big gap at 3B, where the choice will be between Boni (or putting Boni at 2B, Coghlan at 3B), or Sanchez. And I still believe this FO sees him as the super utility guy long term.

 

Uggla is a VERY good 2B who can OPS .800+ every year, but right now Uggla serves more use to us in using him as trade bait to rebuild our pretty much depleted minor league depth, especially since we already have Boni and Coghlan who can play 2nd.

 

Our starting rotation will VERY likely be JJ, Nolasco, Volstad, Miller, West. Just seems these guys are the in the plans for next season based on future with the team and production.

 

The bullpen will be built by pieces in free agency as we always do, and Nunez will be our closer next season going in.

 

Basically, very little change other than getting rid of Uggz and Hermida via trade. We will however need to get a cheap bench piece to replace Gload in the offseason (unless the team wants to use his $2.6 million option).. I'm cool with the team next season, and come September we should start to see the likes of Stanton/Dominguez getting some pinch hit opportunities.

 

And a disclaimer, this is not what I would WANT to happen, it is what I believe will happen. I would like to see Uggla stay, move Coghlan to 3B, keep Cantu at 1B, and have Morrison in 1B, but with Uggla making probably $8 million in arbitration next year, seems he's the odd man out.

Btw, for those people who want Logan Morrison to spend a couple months in AAA, to delay arbritration, etc.

...what about signing a guy like Eric Hinske (pretty cheap option who can get the job done) to a 1 year deal? Hinske is a career .800+ .OPS guy against righties, and he also provides some versatility...kinda like Gload in terms of versatility, except Hinske can also play some 3B, if need be.

 

C - John Baker/Ronny Paulino (platoon)

1B - Hinske/Gaby Sanchez (platoon)

2B - Coghlan

3B - Cantu

SS - Hanley

LF - Cousins (maybe sign another FA like Mark Kotsay, instead)/BC (platoon)

CF - Maybin

RF - Cody

 

Bench - Boni, Helms + the platoon options not starting on that day.

 

SP - JJ, Nolasco, Volstad, Miller, West (Anibal leaves, in my scenario)

 

Relievers - Nunez & Lindstrom can battle in Spring Training for the closer's role. Meyer & Pinto back. Hopper back. That leaves 2 relievers to battle it out in Spring Training. Hopefully we can find another steal in FA, much like we did with Kiko, this past offseason. A guy that would interest me (although he still has a club option, and who knows...he's 41 already, so he might retire, lol) is Brian Shouse. Not sure how much he'd cost, but it can't be much, and he's proven throughout his career that he's a fine lefty specialist, which is something it looks like the bullpen can use.

 

Those are the type of moves I expect, and personally...I'd have no problem with that type of team. I still believe that pitching staff can get it together, and lead us to a playoff berth. Volstad's had a very fluky year, Nolasco ever since his return from the minors (which is a pretty long sample now) has good enough #'s to say that he's a solid #2 (not to mention his great year last year...take away April, and he was one of the best in baseball last year). JJ is a #1, as we all know. Most teams would love to have him. And the backend, while not proven, is still 2 lefties with potential to be better. Not every team can say that.

Eric, wouldn't it make more sense to keep Cantu, get the two first round picks after next season in compensation, while putting Morrison in LF? Other than that I like the lineup

This is how I see it

 

CF Maybin

2B Coghlan

SS Ramirez

1B Cantu

C John Baker/Paulino

RF Ross

LF Morrison

3B Sanchez

 

I don't believe the ownership views Sanchez as a long term starting piece at 3B, but with Nick Johnson probably gone, I see a big gap at 3B, where the choice will be between Boni (or putting Boni at 2B, Coghlan at 3B), or Sanchez. And I still believe this FO sees him as the super utility guy long term.

 

Uggla is a VERY good 2B who can OPS .800+ every year, but right now Uggla serves more use to us in using him as trade bait to rebuild our pretty much depleted minor league depth, especially since we already have Boni and Coghlan who can play 2nd.

 

Our starting rotation will VERY likely be JJ, Nolasco, Volstad, Miller, West. Just seems these guys are the in the plans for next season based on future with the team and production.

 

The bullpen will be built by pieces in free agency as we always do, and Nunez will be our closer next season going in.

 

Basically, very little change other than getting rid of Uggz and Hermida via trade. We will however need to get a cheap bench piece to replace Gload in the offseason (unless the team wants to use his $2.6 million option).. I'm cool with the team next season, and come September we should start to see the likes of Stanton/Dominguez getting some pinch hit opportunities.

 

And a disclaimer, this is not what I would WANT to happen, it is what I believe will happen. I would like to see Uggla stay, move Coghlan to 3B, keep Cantu at 1B, and have Morrison in 1B, but with Uggla making probably $8 million in arbitration next year, seems he's the odd man out.

 

 

 

I don't know If it means much, but I think Cantu has to play as a third baseman in order for us to receive the two first round picks. I'm not sure though.

yeah, and even then it might be borderline

Btw, for those people who want Logan Morrison to spend a couple months in AAA, to delay arbritration, etc.

...what about signing a guy like Eric Hinske (pretty cheap option who can get the job done) to a 1 year deal? Hinske is a career .800+ .OPS guy against righties, and he also provides some versatility...kinda like Gload in terms of versatility, except Hinske can also play some 3B, if need be.

 

 

I hope we get Hinske, I wanted him last offseason to. Several other 3b's out there that should be cheap (1-2m+), allowing us to save several mil on trading Cantu

As for the bullpen, I'm not sure if we can afford to keep both Lindstrom and Nunez. Also, I would like to see RVH in the pen. So Lindy/Nunez, Hopper, RVH, Pinto, Meyer are the first 5 I'd like to see in the pen. A LOOGY type would be nice, as well as maybe a high-upside type at the 7th arm (although maybe RVH fits this role and we should just get a more proven middle-reliever in the other spot).

 

I'd almost rather keep Uggla for $8-9 million than Cantu for $6 million; however, Uggla should net more in a trade right now; keeping him another year might diminish his trade value because he'll be older and we'll have less leverage as his salary rises and he is closer to free agency and with less club-controlled years; Cantu should be a Type A after next season (instead of in 2 seasons), and we probably couldn't even risk offering Uggla arbitration for 2011 because he'd be quite expensive.

As for the bullpen, I'm not sure if we can afford to keep both Lindstrom and Nunez. Also, I would like to see RVH in the pen. So Lindy/Nunez, Hopper, RVH, Pinto, Meyer are the first 5 I'd like to see in the pen. A LOOGY type would be nice, as well as maybe a high-upside type at the 7th arm (although maybe RVH fits this role and we should just get a more proven middle-reliever in the other spot).

 

I'd almost rather keep Uggla for $8-9 million than Cantu for $6 million; however, Uggla should net more in a trade right now; keeping him another year might diminish his trade value because he'll be older and we'll have less leverage as his salary rises and he is closer to free agency and with less club-controlled years; Cantu should be a Type A after next season (instead of in 2 seasons), and we probably couldn't even risk offering Uggla arbitration for 2011 because he'd be quite expensive.

 

 

Well, we can keep Lindstrom and Nunez, while signing Brian Shouse, who Erick mentioned. This makes RVH as the high-upside type at the 7th arm, Shouse as our LOOGY, and Lindstrom as our proven middle relief arm.

 

Nunez, Lindstrom, Meyer, Pinto, Hopper, Shouse, and RVH sounds good.

Yeah, but it's a money thing. It all depends on the salary constraints we have. Hinske >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [the other 1 of] Lindstrom/Nunez, even if he only starts again RHP. If that's the decision, we have to trade one of them. I mean, I'd love to keep everyone, except for maybe Hermida and obviously Proctor, but that's not realistic.

As for the bullpen, I'm not sure if we can afford to keep both Lindstrom and Nunez. Also, I would like to see RVH in the pen. So Lindy/Nunez, Hopper, RVH, Pinto, Meyer are the first 5 I'd like to see in the pen. A LOOGY type would be nice, as well as maybe a high-upside type at the 7th arm (although maybe RVH fits this role and we should just get a more proven middle-reliever in the other spot).

 

I'd almost rather keep Uggla for $8-9 million than Cantu for $6 million; however, Uggla should net more in a trade right now; keeping him another year might diminish his trade value because he'll be older and we'll have less leverage as his salary rises and he is closer to free agency and with less club-controlled years; Cantu should be a Type A after next season (instead of in 2 seasons), and we probably couldn't even risk offering Uggla arbitration for 2011 because he'd be quite expensive.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm wondering that, as well. Not even sure if I want to keep both of them, but I think the organization will.

Yeah, but it's a money thing. It all depends on the salary constraints we have. Hinske >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [the other 1 of] Lindstrom/Nunez, even if he only starts again RHP. If that's the decision, we have to trade one of them. I mean, I'd love to keep everyone, except for maybe Hermida and obviously Proctor, but that's not realistic.

 

 

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you wanted us to sign Hinske.

As for the bullpen, I'm not sure if we can afford to keep both Lindstrom and Nunez. Also, I would like to see RVH in the pen. So Lindy/Nunez, Hopper, RVH, Pinto, Meyer are the first 5 I'd like to see in the pen. A LOOGY type would be nice, as well as maybe a high-upside type at the 7th arm (although maybe RVH fits this role and we should just get a more proven middle-reliever in the other spot).

 

I'd almost rather keep Uggla for $8-9 million than Cantu for $6 million; however, Uggla should net more in a trade right now; keeping him another year might diminish his trade value because he'll be older and we'll have less leverage as his salary rises and he is closer to free agency and with less club-controlled years; Cantu should be a Type A after next season (instead of in 2 seasons), and we probably couldn't even risk offering Uggla arbitration for 2011 because he'd be quite expensive.

 

 

Well, we can keep Lindstrom and Nunez, while signing Brian Shouse, who Erick mentioned. This makes RVH as the high-upside type at the 7th arm, Shouse as our LOOGY, and Lindstrom as our proven middle relief arm.

 

Nunez, Lindstrom, Meyer, Pinto, Hopper, Shouse, and RVH sounds good.

Them swear words 'round these parts!

It's so hard to speculate without knowing the exact salary cap. I'd rather have Uggla + one of them rather than Cantu + both. Especially so if Cantu may not be a Type A regardless of where he plays, since I can't imagine Uggla not being one.

 

And don't forget, Uggla's trade value is distinctly affected by the fact that he would (I'm assuming) be a Type A. Teams, especially ones with a good chunk of [near] ML-ready talent, are willing to give up much more for a guy like Uggla because he's basically guaranteed to bring back 2 top draft picks if he doesn't resign with you, and that's big. It's not like any team is going to trick any other team as to a player's worth just because draft picks are being considered.