Don't know if anyone posted this but. The Marlins and D-Backs are discussing a potential Derek Lee for Spivey and some young pitchers. A couple good pitchers than could be in this deal are Patterson and Good. I for one like this deal because Castillo may leave and if Spivey can regain his All Star form our team could once again be something special.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basebal...-sports-marlins

Pull the damn trigger Admin before the D-Backs put this deal off the table. I think Admin may be waiting to see if Castillo will accept his offer and if not he will pull the trigger.

Yes, if one of those 2 pitchers is involved, that's a trade I'd make.

 

I saw the topic and laughed, but with one of those guys, it's not a bad idea.

The Marlins are not interested in any of the other prominent free agents at the position. They are wary of Todd Walker's defense, Roberto Alomar's attitude and Japanese import Kaz Matsui's price tag.

count them out

little matsui is being pressured to stay in japan.

 

and if the spivey for lee deal goes down expect 1 or 2 starters to get the boot. patterson is a major league ready starter and good can start or relieve. Beinfest is keeping his options open and i love it :thumbup

BUT this is just a rumor and i believe nothing until its official.

Make that Deal Beinfest!

 

Getting Bautista back, he WAS one of our best prospects.

 

Andew Good and Junior Spivey! I remeber how good Junior did in his rookie season. That will be a good trade. Bring it on. We have a good replacement for lee if he goes. That will be conine but then what Outfielder do we put at LF? Encarnacion is not coming back.

There must a reason Arizona is willing to part with three pitchers and Junior Spivey in exchange for Lee, and whatever those reasons are you can be assured they have little to do with the Marlins best interest. With the possible exception of Patterson, none of the three exhibit any great upside. At least, one of three is a lefty, and they are early enough in their careers to have a cost benefit to the Fish, but at this point in their collective careers none of them will unseat our current crop of starting pitchers.

 

If the objective is to flood the bullpen with starters-in-waiting while throwing in yet another available RH .250 bat at second, then this deal works. If our goal is to be competitive in 2004 we can do better.

 

Personally, I want to trade DLee (or Mark Redman) to Baltimore for Jay Gibbons, but I've been saying that for six months. Gibbons, the O's MVP in 2003 is cheap (under $1 million), a lefty bat with 100 rbi, hit 20+ homers and plays RF and 1B. Sticking his LH bat in the middle of Rodriguez, Cabrera, Lowell and Conine would provide the Fish with a terrific offensive lineup and prove some balance to what is now a very unbalanced lineup.

 

I'd love to have Bautista back but were it up to me, Gibbons is the Oriole I want and the guy the Fish should build a trade around. The Orioles have coveted Lee for a year, it's time for them to step up and make a real offer, one that will help the Marlins in 2004, not just down the road. TNSTAAPP.

Does this mean the DBacks are giving up on Lyle Overbay??

 

If Spivey returns to 2002 form it will be fine, but he had a pretty down year last year.... too many strikeouts for a top-of-the-order type hitter.

 

These pitchers aren't anything special. I wonder if the Marlins couldn't do better.

"Castillo, the top second baseman on the free-agent market, is considering a three-year, $15.5 million offer from the Marlins but would prefer a four-year deal. For now, the Marlins are said to be unwilling to go that far with the two-time All-Star."

 

why not????

The Marlins feel players get complacent with long-term contracts with alot of 000 next to it. Its there policy, plus it would be easier to trade a player with two or one left on his contract then four or three. Three years is more manageable for them. In Luis case his hip didn't improve during the course of the year, so there's a ? there. It might be nothing or it could be another Albert Belle :confused

I'm going on the report that the Marlins already floated a 3-year 15 million deal. If 3 years is fine, then why not 4? Especially if its for less money.

This is what I think:

 

 

We know what we have in Luis right now. And so IF the deal falls through and Luis decides to look at other options and signs, then I think we should make the trade. I'm not exactly thrilled about giving up D-Lee and his amazing glove, but if it helps this team in the long run, then I say we should go for it.

This deal is balls. I'd be more comfortable getting our pitchers back from Baltimore plus one more prospect. These pitchers have put up some awful numbers and Spivey, like 03' said has awful plate discipline. I still can't believe some of you can't appreciate Lee's talents. Anyone read Hill's comments about Castillo and Lee providing "defensive RBIs?" We would have to get one of Villareal or Valverde + Spivey for this deal to work.

Spivey is solid, but too many strikeouts for my liking. He did have an OBP of .389 in '02 and has some pop (16, 13 HRs last 2 years). I dont know much about the D'Backs pitchers - so that cant be all good.

 

The fact is we are going to deal Lee. I dont think we re-sign him unless we lose Castillo. And at that point, we may have to trade Lee to get a replacement. Instead of trading for Spivey, we could just sign Reese or Eric Young. They are just as good and could be had for same price. And we dont have to use up Lee's value to do so.

 

I like Marlin2003's idea of trading with the Orioles for Gibbons. Mainly because I like the idea of getting Bautista back. Per the Sentinel article,If talks with Arizona collapse, the Marlins could ship Lee to the Giants, where he could play close to his Sacramento home, or Baltimore, where the Orioles nearly acquired him for Conine in July. The Orioles could be willing to include one of the two young right-handers they received in the Aug. 31 Conine deal, Denny Bautista or Don Levinski.

 

Get a deal for Gibbons and Bautista and you have something there. Gibbons is cheap, young, and has solid power - 20-30HR per. He doesnt strike out too much either, 66K and 89K vs. 45 and 49BB. Low K's with a low BA (.247 in '02, .277 last season) means he is making a lot of contact and those could turn into hits as he gets older/stronger. So I am not too concerned there. This also works because Conine shifts to 1B and Gibbons to RF (Cabs to LF) which also means we could trade Encarnacion. I dont know how Gibbons is defensively, and he doesnt seem to have much speed, but could be another solid choice here. Plus, we would get Bautista back and that would be a thrilling proposal on its own.

Gibbons isnt being shopped is he?

I don't want to see this deal done.

 

We can get better than that for Derrek.

Gibbons isnt being shopped is he?

 

He isn't being "shopped" per se but there's been a few comments in the Sun that have implied in the right situation the Orioles would move him.

I like Marlin2003's idea of trading with the Orioles for Gibbons. Mainly because I like the idea of getting Bautista back. Per the Sentinel article,If talks with Arizona collapse, the Marlins could ship Lee to the Giants, where he could play close to his Sacramento home, or Baltimore, where the Orioles nearly acquired him for Conine in July. The Orioles could be willing to include one of the two young right-handers they received in the Aug. 31 Conine deal, Denny Bautista or Don Levinski.

 

Get a deal for Gibbons and Bautista and you have something there. Gibbons is cheap, young, and has solid power - 20-30HR per. He doesnt strike out too much either, 66K and 89K vs. 45 and 49BB. Low K's with a low BA (.247 in '02, .277 last season) means he is making a lot of contact and those could turn into hits as he gets older/stronger. So I am not too concerned there. This also works because Conine shifts to 1B and Gibbons to RF (Cabs to LF) which also means we could trade Encarnacion. I dont know how Gibbons is defensively, and he doesnt seem to have much speed, but could be another solid choice here. Plus, we would get Bautista back and that would be a thrilling proposal on its own. I don't even think the orioles are willing to give away Gibbons for Lee straight up so they definetly wouldn't do it for Gibbons, Levinski and Bautista, but I am intrigued by the idea of getting those guys back, and they could maybe throw in another one of their young pitchers, also and I think that would be great.

I don't even think the orioles are willing to give away Gibbons for Lee straight up

They're crazy if they wouldn't trade Lee for Gibbons straight-up, despite the money factor.

I don't even think the orioles are willing to give away Gibbons for Lee straight up

They're crazy if they wouldn't trade Lee for Gibbons straight-up, despite the money factor. why is this?

I don't even think the orioles are willing to give away Gibbons for Lee straight up

They're crazy if they wouldn't trade Lee for Gibbons straight-up, despite the money factor. why is this? Are we going to have the same discussion in two different threads?

 

Lee is more productive. Period.

I don't even think the orioles are willing to give away Gibbons for Lee straight up

They're crazy if they wouldn't trade Lee for Gibbons straight-up, despite the money factor. why is this? Are we going to have the same discussion in two different threads?

 

Lee is more productive. Period. That doesn't mean they'll give up Gibbons for Lee when they can go after another 1b maybe not as good, but close to Lee's caliber and not have to give up Gibbons. Look I'd love to get Gibbons for Lee, but I'm just saying I think the deal for Bautista is more realistic.

That doesn't mean they'll give up Gibbons for Lee when they can go after another 1b maybe not as good, but close to Lee's caliber and not have to give up Gibbons. Look I'd love to get Gibbons for Lee, but I'm just saying I think the deal for Bautista is more realistic.

1) Guerrero will probably be manning RF for the O's next year.

 

2) The Bautista deal is not more likely, because the Marlins want to win now. That's the whole reason they traded him there in the first place (to get Conine, to win NOW).

 

Derrek Lee and Richie Sexon are really the only big bat 1B available (I won't count Nick Johnson, because I don't see NY trading him to divison-rival Baltimore) and the Sexon talks have suposedly fallen apart.

That doesn't mean they'll give up Gibbons for Lee when they can go after another 1b maybe not as good, but close to Lee's caliber and not have to give up Gibbons. Look I'd love to get Gibbons for Lee, but I'm just saying I think the deal for Bautista is more realistic.

1) Guerrero will probably be manning RF for the O's next year.

 

2) The Bautista deal is not more likely, because the Marlins want to win now. That's the whole reason they traded him there in the first place (to get Conine, to win NOW).

 

Derrek Lee and Richie Sexon are really the only big bat 1B available (I won't count Nick Johnson, because I don't see NY trading him to divison-rival Baltimore) and the Sexon talks have suposedly fallen apart. If I'm the marlins FO, I'm still looking for good young talent, because we gave up a lot to win the WS. Also, it's not like giving up Lee creates a huge whole in our lineup, we have Conine who can step right in for Lee at first, put Cabrera in Left, and have Encarnacion or a cheaper outfielder man rightfield. That is still a great lineup right there without Lee. Would I love to get Gibbons yes and if they offered him to us I would definetly take it, but I don't think the Orioles will because they can still play Gibbons in LF or DH him.

but I don't think the Orioles will because they can still play Gibbons in LF or DH him.

If they want a very productive 1B, they'll give him up.