Why does Freddy keep using Pinto with these meaningless lefty-lefty matchups? I rather have Cody up there with bases loaded!

 

JEEESH!!

 

 

Dunn was 2-16 career against Pinto, so I didn't hate that.

 

Dunn made me flippin' angry as heck.

 

I also agree about Petersen; I have no idea where his brain was.

 

Also agree with what 03 said about the extra outs........very frustrating. It's funny that we've also made a lot of spectacular plays (like Cantu's DP today), but we continue to struggle with the seemingly rudimentary ones.

 

Pinto can't pitch anymore, it doesn't matter if Dunn is 2-100 against him. I know Freddy is trying to minimize Pinto's appearances but dammit man, bases loaded in a pivotal part of the game!????

disregard :whistle :confused

Pinto is on the team, thus he can still pitch. Can't be hiding anyone. It was the right move; it's not Fredi's fault that Pinto's changeup hit Dunn, the AB was actually going perfectly before that. Pinto owns those types of hitters. I think he's had a good amount of success against Ryan Howard, too, not sure.

sanches should have started the 8th and Johnson should have gone out in the 7th innings. But nope fredi decides using badenhop for two innings is better.

 

Even against the Giants badenhop was going into his 3rd inning in a tie game...fredi just doesnt know when to not push his luck ....not that burke is bad at all but in a tie game you know at one point the guy is gonna tire.

 

We were down by 1 with only 3 innings left, JJ had to be lifted for a PHer. I don't know if I would have gone with Hopper given his recent struggles (though he didn't really pitch all that badly) but we had to PH for JJ. Sadly it didn't pan out but as they say, you can't play the result.

 

 

Also, I completely agreed with his move to walk Zimmerman and bring in the lefty to face Dunn, though I wish we had a LOOGY so that we didn't have to bring in Pinto.

 

Career-wise Dunn dosen't hit Pinto well at all. And Dunn was 0 fer 6 going into that AB. I'm not a huge Pinto fan, but that was the right move. Unfortunetly, like you said, you can't play the result.

I was mad that the umpire didn't say something about Dunn not moving on that pitch, and even MORE angry that Fredi just sat there like it didn't happen.

Don't the rules say you HAVE to make an effort to get out of the way?

 

 

Yes they do. But how many times have you ever seen it enforced? Heck, I've seen our guys do it numerous times as well and the opposing manager never comes out to argue it. It's a no-win argument. Strictly judgement call by the ump.

I was mad that the umpire didn't say something about Dunn not moving on that pitch, and even MORE angry that Fredi just sat there like it didn't happen.

Don't the rules say you HAVE to make an effort to get out of the way?

 

Rule 6.08(b)(2)6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when— He is touched by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless (1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball

That rule is very rarely enforced though, which kinda sucks.

 

 

As much as I think Bonifacio sucks at life, the team could really use him over seem of these guys like Lamb or Barden. The Marlins have had some close games in late innings and a pinch runner capable of stealing a base could have been useful.

 

Well, Lamb's gone but I think at this point I'm fine with Barden over Boni. Barden's got good speed and I don't know if I really want Boni trying to force himself on the bases when we're trying to rally. Boni's pretty good at running the bases when the ball's in play (and damn fast too) but he had 21 SB with 17 CS+PO. You don't want to risk killing a rally like that. Plus Barden has a good edge on him defensively.

 

And I would rather have Boni right where he is to get those ABs in. Bringing him up to be a PR or late defensive replacement would only hinder his progression.

I was mad that the umpire didn't say something about Dunn not moving on that pitch, and even MORE angry that Fredi just sat there like it didn't happen.

Don't the rules say you HAVE to make an effort to get out of the way?

 

 

Yes they do. But how many times have you ever seen it enforced? Heck, I've seen our guys do it numerous times as well and the opposing manager never comes out to argue it. It's a no-win argument. Strictly judgement call by the ump.

 

To me, the rule only gets called if the batter puts himself in the way of the ball intentionally. Thats not the way the rule is written but I think umpires look at it that way because, in Dunn's case, even if he tried to move, that ball was headed for the center of his body and was gonna hit him anyways unless he flat out laid down.

Wait, what? Dunn had zero chance of avoiding that ball. It's not his fault this time. Pinto just choked.

I was mad that the umpire didn't say something about Dunn not moving on that pitch, and even MORE angry that Fredi just sat there like it didn't happen.

Don't the rules say you HAVE to make an effort to get out of the way?

 

 

Yes they do. But how many times have you ever seen it enforced? Heck, I've seen our guys do it numerous times as well and the opposing manager never comes out to argue it. It's a no-win argument. Strictly judgement call by the ump.

 

To me, the rule only gets called if the batter puts himself in the way of the ball intentionally. Thats not the way the rule is written but I think umpires look at it that way because, in Dunn's case, even if he tried to move, that ball was headed for the center of his body and was gonna hit him anyways unless he flat out laid down.

 

That's about the only time I have seen it called. He could have gotten out of the way, but why? It was off speed, wasn't heading towards a spot where it would hurt much, and he got a go ahead ribbie. Same thing one of our guys would have done.

Wait, what? Dunn had zero chance of avoiding that ball. It's not his fault this time. Pinto just choked.

 

 

 

Yea. Okay.

Count me in as one who thinks Dunn couldn't have avoided that pitch. It didn't look different than any other HBP that impacts the torso.

I was mad that the umpire didn't say something about Dunn not moving on that pitch, and even MORE angry that Fredi just sat there like it didn't happen.

Don't the rules say you HAVE to make an effort to get out of the way?

 

Rule 6.08(b)(2)6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when— He is touched by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless (1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball

That rule is very rarely enforced though, which kinda sucks.

 

 

As much as I think Bonifacio sucks at life, the team could really use him over seem of these guys like Lamb or Barden. The Marlins have had some close games in late innings and a pinch runner capable of stealing a base could have been useful.

 

Well, Lamb's gone but I think at this point I'm fine with Barden over Boni. Barden's got good speed and I don't know if I really want Boni trying to force himself on the bases when we're trying to rally. Boni's pretty good at running the bases when the ball's in play (and damn fast too) but he had 21 SB with 17 CS+PO. You don't want to risk killing a rally like that. Plus Barden has a good edge on him defensively.

 

And I would rather have Boni right where he is to get those ABs in. Bringing him up to be a PR or late defensive replacement would only hinder his progression.

 

 

I'm happy to see you're still sticking to hoping he progresses...most of us have accepted that he's just not good. I'd much rather have Barden on the team, btw. Bonifacio might be fast, but he's also a dumbass who has proven to be a liability at times on the bases. The only thing he occasionally does really well is use his speed to score from 1B on a single. The lack of a pinch-runner isn't costing us games. Bonifacio shouldn't be in the big leagues. Bottom line.

Do you really think Brian Barden brings more than Boner? Brian Barden is worthless.

Do you really think Brian Barden brings more than Boner? Brian Barden is worthless.

 

 

 

So is Bonifacio.

If Bonifacio can improve in any way, it's base stealing. He obviously has the raw speed; he just needs to improve his technique.

Do you really think Brian Barden brings more than Boner? Brian Barden is worthless.

 

I think, right now, yes. Barden's not going to be picked off or thrown out (though Barden is slower) plus he's a better defender. I don't think Barden's any worse with the bat either. I think, in the long run, Boni's going to be the new Amezaga and be better on the basepaths as well.

Do you really think Brian Barden brings more than Boner? Brian Barden is worthless.

 

 

Barden is worthless, but Bonifacio had negative value.

If Bonifacio can improve in any way, it's base stealing. He obviously has the raw speed; he just needs to improve his technique.

 

 

 

Boni was improving on the K : AB ratio, but then he was putting the ball in the air. Now it looks like he is back to bad pitch selection. Watching him in the OF during ST he played it very well. And I do mean very well. Also not bad at SS and 2B. I especially liked him at 2B. Smooth actions is the best way I can put it. Base stealing is something that has to be learned. With the type of pitchers in AAA, it's as good a place as any.

 

Guys can get to the majors with a decent bat and not much glove. Baker and Gaby are good examples. But good defense and not much bat? Very rarely. Boni gets that light to go off in his head about pitch selection and he is going to be a handful for opposing teams.

[

 

I'm happy to see you're still sticking to hoping he progresses...most of us have accepted that he's just not good. I'd much rather have Barden on the team, btw. Bonifacio might be fast, but he's also a dumbass who has proven to be a liability at times on the bases. The only thing he occasionally does really well is use his speed to score from 1B on a single. The lack of a pinch-runner isn't costing us games. Bonifacio shouldn't be in the big leagues. Bottom line.

 

 

 

Patience is a virtue. The "most of us" would be the same ones that would have given up on alot of players that see-sawed from the majors to the minors at the start of their careers. I argued with those same type folks in the mid to late 90's about Castillo also. Means nothing. But then. neither does my opinion.

 

I just see the talent. If he can straighten out his bat.

[

 

I'm happy to see you're still sticking to hoping he progresses...most of us have accepted that he's just not good. I'd much rather have Barden on the team, btw. Bonifacio might be fast, but he's also a dumbass who has proven to be a liability at times on the bases. The only thing he occasionally does really well is use his speed to score from 1B on a single. The lack of a pinch-runner isn't costing us games. Bonifacio shouldn't be in the big leagues. Bottom line.

 

 

 

Patience is a virtue. The "most of us" would be the same ones that would have given up on alot of players that see-sawed from the majors to the minors at the start of their careers. I argued with those same type folks in the mid to late 90's about Castillo also. Means nothing. But then. neither does my opinion.

 

I just see the talent. If he can straighten out his bat.

 

Luis Castillo had much better minor league numebrs. Emilio had one campaign with a great average in A+, but looking at his numbers from that year (where he batted .321) he still struck out over 100 times and walked only 44 times in over 600 PAs. Luis Castillo was excellent at drawing walks and didn't strike out nearly as much. Those are the reasons why one had a successful career after struggling initially in the majors while one lacks the skills to ever become a great contact hitter because he just can't make contact enough or walk enough against advanced pitching.

[

 

I'm happy to see you're still sticking to hoping he progresses...most of us have accepted that he's just not good. I'd much rather have Barden on the team, btw. Bonifacio might be fast, but he's also a dumbass who has proven to be a liability at times on the bases. The only thing he occasionally does really well is use his speed to score from 1B on a single. The lack of a pinch-runner isn't costing us games. Bonifacio shouldn't be in the big leagues. Bottom line.

 

 

 

Patience is a virtue. The "most of us" would be the same ones that would have given up on alot of players that see-sawed from the majors to the minors at the start of their careers. I argued with those same type folks in the mid to late 90's about Castillo also. Means nothing. But then. neither does my opinion.

 

I just see the talent. If he can straighten out his bat.

 

 

Please lets not begin the Castillo-Bonifacio comparison again. Castillo's minor league #'s (like his BB:K ratio) gave reason for optimism. Bonifacio has never had plate discipline/good pitch selection...that's not something that's just easily fixed. Can't steal 1B. He's not really a prospect anymore...not that he ever was a big time prospect, anyway.

Yes, Castillo struggled for a bit when he was first called up, but that means nothing. Castillo was called up at the age of 20 after absolutely raking in A and AA. Castillo had an impressive minor league resume that warranted an early call up. By the time Castillo was only 23 he was OBPing in the .380s.

 

Bonifacio has had a mediocre minor league career and has a .308 OBP in AAA at age 25.

 

If you think Bonifacio is anything like Castillo, you have your head in the sand.

[

 

I'm happy to see you're still sticking to hoping he progresses...most of us have accepted that he's just not good. I'd much rather have Barden on the team, btw. Bonifacio might be fast, but he's also a dumbass who has proven to be a liability at times on the bases. The only thing he occasionally does really well is use his speed to score from 1B on a single. The lack of a pinch-runner isn't costing us games. Bonifacio shouldn't be in the big leagues. Bottom line.

 

 

 

Patience is a virtue. The "most of us" would be the same ones that would have given up on alot of players that see-sawed from the majors to the minors at the start of their careers. I argued with those same type folks in the mid to late 90's about Castillo also. Means nothing. But then. neither does my opinion.

 

I just see the talent. If he can straighten out his bat.

 

 

Please lets not begin the Castillo-Bonifacio comparison again. Castillo's minor league #'s (like his BB:K ratio) gave reason for optimism. Bonifacio has never had plate discipline/good pitch selection...that's not something that's just easily fixed. Can't steal 1B. He's not really a prospect anymore...not that he ever was a big time prospect, anyway.

 

The only comparison I'm making is how much Castillo was slammed by most fans when he came back up and beat out Craig for the starting job. Some had to do with how poorly he did in '97 to warrant that demotion and the trade that brought Craig here. It's been a while since that happened, and alot has happened since then, so maybe those facts are a little glazed over now.

 

There is no comparison bat-wise. Yet. The skills are there. Right now he's in AAA where he is seeing more seasoned pitchers, throwing alot more off speed stuff. The kind of stuff that has most of this team flailing away. Not using that as an excuse. Like I keep saying, he is right where he needs to be for now. If the bat comes around, and I think it will, then we will start on the comparisons.

The comparisons will fall flat because Bonifacio simply doesn't have the same skill set beyond "he can't hit the ball hard." castillo's approach at the plate wasn't even close to Bonifacio's. they really aren't similar.

This board didn't exist when Castillo was called up. Surely, you know this. Why are you seeming to insinuate that the posters here complaining about Bonifacio were the same ones complaining about Castillo?

 

You certainly could be embellishing something you heard 15 years ago for all we know. Or you could be talking about ignorant fans. Either way, this is a weak point.