Thing is, what can be done at this point? If Selig and MLB reviewed it and just said okay we're switching the call, I mean that would be absolutely stunning.

 

 

I don't think Cabrera was taking his time, he can't throw it 'til the pitcher is close to 1st.

 

MLB shouldn't overturn it. It was a judgment call. It will set a terrible precedent. I think Joyce should have a vacation while things settle down. He might even want to voluntarily.

 

agreed. The real shame is that most umps in that situation you'd imagine would probably going to give any even remotely close play to the pitcher in that situation.

 

it's like joyce was intentionally being a d*ck.

Yea now Im thinking of the close calls that Halladay got when Coghlan was at the plate. If Halladay gets bad calls going his way in the late stages of the game... how does Galarraga not get an obvious out call there? This MUST be reversed! I think its so blatant that nobody can say "oh now theyre gonna just reverse calls left and right?" Thats not the case here... this is just horrendous and a disgrace.

 

Blown calls have affected playoff series and MLB has done nothing (rightfully so). There really isn't the capacity for MLB to step in here.

 

My argument here is that this is beyond a blown call, its just clearly wrong. A borderline pitch or a bang bang play are iffy calls and they can go either way. This, on the other hand, cannot go the other way unless Joyce just wanted to be a d***. This is so wrong on all levels, this has to be overturned! And my second point is, it doesnt change the final result of the game besides rewarding Galarraga with the perfect game that he so obviously rightfully pitched!

Thing is, what can be done at this point? If Selig and MLB reviewed it and just said okay we're switching the call, I mean that would be absolutely stunning.

 

 

I don't think Cabrera was taking his time, he can't throw it 'til the pitcher is close to 1st.

 

MLB shouldn't overturn it. It was a judgment call. It will set a terrible precedent. I think Joyce should have a vacation while things settle down. He might even want to voluntarily.

 

agreed. The real shame is that most umps in that situation you'd imagine would probably going to give any even remotely close play to the pitcher in that situation.

 

it's like joyce was intentionally being a d*ck.

Joyce umped during Braden's perfecto. He's been there and done that.

This is just an observation from that play. Miguel Cabrera should've let Carlos Guillen get that ball. Obviously you don't think like that in the heat of the moment of the play, but Guillen had his momentum to first base. Obviously the out was made, but just another thing to think about from that play.

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5244971&categoryid=2378529

 

Also, pause this video at 0:33, the disbelief went beyond just the Tigers. Donald was even shocked he was called safe. I think he felt just as horrible as every person in that stadium that he was called safe.

This is just an observation from that play. Miguel Cabrera should've let Carlos Guillen get that ball. Obviously you don't think like that in the heat of the moment of the play, but Guillen had his momentum to first base. Obviously the out was made, but just another thing to think about from that play.

 

http://espn.go.com/v...http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5244971&categoryid=2378529

 

Also, pause this video at 0:33, the disbelief went beyond just the Tigers. Donald was even shocked he was called safe. I think he felt just as horrible as every person in that stadium that he was called safe.

 

 

To me that was just a blown call, I don't care what the players did, I don't care how the play started or who should have made it, the point is the ball was in the glove and foot was on the bag before the runner got there, I don't care if Cabrera ran in circles and did two back flips and then made the throw, the point is, it wasn't even close.

This is just an observation from that play. Miguel Cabrera should've let Carlos Guillen get that ball. Obviously you don't think like that in the heat of the moment of the play, but Guillen had his momentum to first base. Obviously the out was made, but just another thing to think about from that play.

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5244971&categoryid=2378529

 

Also, pause this video at 0:33, the disbelief went beyond just the Tigers. Donald was even shocked he was called safe. I think he felt just as horrible as every person in that stadium that he was called safe.

 

 

I think the runner would have legitimately been safe had Cabrera not fielded that ball. It was a slow roller, so it would have taken longer to get to Guillen.

 

Regardless, the guy was out. It doesn't make sense to criticize Cabrera because he got the out. It was a horrible call, not a bad play.

quotes by Joyce after the game:

 

"I just cost that kid a perfect game," Joyce said. "I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay."

"It was the biggest call of my career," said Joyce, who became a full-time major league umpire in 1989.

 

 

About being confronted afterward: "I don't blame them a bit or anything that was said," Joyce said. "I would've said it myself if I had been Galarraga. I would've been the first person in my face, and he never said a word to me."

quotes by Joyce after the game:

 

"I just cost that kid a perfect game," Joyce said. "I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay."

"It was the biggest call of my career," said Joyce, who became a full-time major league umpire in 1989.

 

 

About being confronted afterward: "I don't blame them a bit or anything that was said," Joyce said. "I would've said it myself if I had been Galarraga. I would've been the first person in my face, and he never said a word to me."

 

 

Galarraga didnt say anything to you cause he's a professional... OR he just doesnt realize how bad the call really was.

 

And hey, if Joyce himself admits he made the wrong call... change it!

Great answer. It doesn't take away anything about the call, but at least he's not being a complete dick and staying by his horrible call.

 

Lets just hope we all move on within the next week, and let this all go in the back burner.

 

 

And I wasn't blaming Cabrera for anything, just making a comment on the play. I even stated there is no criticism at all on Cabrera, just something to think about.

At least he manned up. Still doesn't make up for the fact that he cost Galarraga a perfect game. I'm not sure there could be a situation where an ump could mess up more. Perhaps a blown safe call at the plate on a walk-off run in the bottom of the ninth of game 7.

Yea now Im thinking of the close calls that Halladay got when Coghlan was at the plate. If Halladay gets bad calls going his way in the late stages of the game... how does Galarraga not get an obvious out call there? This MUST be reversed! I think its so blatant that nobody can say "oh now theyre gonna just reverse calls left and right?" Thats not the case here... this is just horrendous and a disgrace.

 

Blown calls have affected playoff series and MLB has done nothing (rightfully so). There really isn't the capacity for MLB to step in here.

 

My argument here is that this is beyond a blown call, its just clearly wrong. A borderline pitch or a bang bang play are iffy calls and they can go either way. This, on the other hand, cannot go the other way unless Joyce just wanted to be a d***. This is so wrong on all levels, this has to be overturned! And my second point is, it doesnt change the final result of the game besides rewarding Galarraga with the perfect game that he so obviously rightfully pitched!

I take it you've never seen any video from the 1985 World Series.

 

This stuff happens. MLB has umpires so they don't have desk jockeys having to rule on controversial plays.

It's a stretch, but I think the only reversal that would be possible at this point would be for the official scorer to change the ruling from a hit to an error, to give him the no-hitter.

 

It sure didn't seem to be an errror, but the official scorer could throw him a bone and say the ball wasn't caught cleanly before tagging the base.

I completely agree with the above. I'm still so sick to my stomach over this (legitimately).

 

I would love to see MLB have some balls and grant him the perfect game. He even got the next out. I doubt they do it, but I wish they would.

Yea now Im thinking of the close calls that Halladay got when Coghlan was at the plate. If Halladay gets bad calls going his way in the late stages of the game... how does Galarraga not get an obvious out call there? This MUST be reversed! I think its so blatant that nobody can say "oh now theyre gonna just reverse calls left and right?" Thats not the case here... this is just horrendous and a disgrace.

 

Blown calls have affected playoff series and MLB has done nothing (rightfully so). There really isn't the capacity for MLB to step in here.

 

My argument here is that this is beyond a blown call, its just clearly wrong. A borderline pitch or a bang bang play are iffy calls and they can go either way. This, on the other hand, cannot go the other way unless Joyce just wanted to be a d***. This is so wrong on all levels, this has to be overturned! And my second point is, it doesnt change the final result of the game besides rewarding Galarraga with the perfect game that he so obviously rightfully pitched!

I take it you've never seen any video from the 1985 World Series.

 

This stuff happens. MLB has umpires so they don't have desk jockeys having to rule on controversial plays.

 

Wasn't that call in the 8th inning?

 

This call is final in the sense that it determined the outcome without a doubt.

If I were the scorekeeper I would just say f*k it and give the play an error.

I completely agree with the above. I'm still so sick to my stomach over this (legitimately).

 

I would love to see MLB have some balls and grant him the perfect game. He even got the next out. I doubt they do it, but I wish they would.

 

 

I'll be weird and reply to myself.

 

I don't thiknk it's necessarily a bad precedent. The game ended on the next batter regardless. The umpire has admitted he was wrong. Everyone knows he was wrong. It's a historic feat if he makes the right call. There aren't many situations like this. I would say only games in October can compare, and I think replay may even need to be expanded for the playoffs (I'm not sure if it goes beyond just home runs right now?).

Yea now Im thinking of the close calls that Halladay got when Coghlan was at the plate. If Halladay gets bad calls going his way in the late stages of the game... how does Galarraga not get an obvious out call there? This MUST be reversed! I think its so blatant that nobody can say "oh now theyre gonna just reverse calls left and right?" Thats not the case here... this is just horrendous and a disgrace.

 

Blown calls have affected playoff series and MLB has done nothing (rightfully so). There really isn't the capacity for MLB to step in here.

 

My argument here is that this is beyond a blown call, its just clearly wrong. A borderline pitch or a bang bang play are iffy calls and they can go either way. This, on the other hand, cannot go the other way unless Joyce just wanted to be a d***. This is so wrong on all levels, this has to be overturned! And my second point is, it doesnt change the final result of the game besides rewarding Galarraga with the perfect game that he so obviously rightfully pitched!

I take it you've never seen any video from the 1985 World Series.

 

This stuff happens. MLB has umpires so they don't have desk jockeys having to rule on controversial plays.

 

Of course I've seen the 85 World Series and that horrendous call too. Whats your point? That doesnt make either call right. And again, my argument that changing this doesnt change the final result of the game. Say what you want about the 85 series, but there was a game 7 too. Game 7 was at least a chance for the Cardinals to win again. Same concept as Bartman costing the Cubs the NLCS... thats monkey crap cause the Cubs also lost in Game 7. My point here is that Galaragga cant go out there tomorrow and try again. Joyce blew it and its a big deal.

 

All I want is for Galarraga to get the reward he deserves, which he was clearly robbed of.

Yea now Im thinking of the close calls that Halladay got when Coghlan was at the plate. If Halladay gets bad calls going his way in the late stages of the game... how does Galarraga not get an obvious out call there? This MUST be reversed! I think its so blatant that nobody can say "oh now theyre gonna just reverse calls left and right?" Thats not the case here... this is just horrendous and a disgrace.

 

Blown calls have affected playoff series and MLB has done nothing (rightfully so). There really isn't the capacity for MLB to step in here.

 

My argument here is that this is beyond a blown call, its just clearly wrong. A borderline pitch or a bang bang play are iffy calls and they can go either way. This, on the other hand, cannot go the other way unless Joyce just wanted to be a d***. This is so wrong on all levels, this has to be overturned! And my second point is, it doesnt change the final result of the game besides rewarding Galarraga with the perfect game that he so obviously rightfully pitched!

I take it you've never seen any video from the 1985 World Series.

 

This stuff happens. MLB has umpires so they don't have desk jockeys having to rule on controversial plays.

 

Wasn't that call in the 8th inning?

 

This call is final in the sense that it determined the outcome without a doubt.

It was the ninth inning (and a string of hits that followed directly led to KC winning), but the call certainly affected the outcome. I don't think the inning matters at all. Bad calls are bad calls and influence the outcome of the game at any point.

 

What makes Joyce's call more surprising is that he didn't give Gallaraga the courtesy of having the call for the 27th out go his way, which seems to be an unwritten rule in baseball. He had to have been pretty damn certain at the time that Donald beat the play.

Yea now Im thinking of the close calls that Halladay got when Coghlan was at the plate. If Halladay gets bad calls going his way in the late stages of the game... how does Galarraga not get an obvious out call there? This MUST be reversed! I think its so blatant that nobody can say "oh now theyre gonna just reverse calls left and right?" Thats not the case here... this is just horrendous and a disgrace.

 

Blown calls have affected playoff series and MLB has done nothing (rightfully so). There really isn't the capacity for MLB to step in here.

 

My argument here is that this is beyond a blown call, its just clearly wrong. A borderline pitch or a bang bang play are iffy calls and they can go either way. This, on the other hand, cannot go the other way unless Joyce just wanted to be a d***. This is so wrong on all levels, this has to be overturned! And my second point is, it doesnt change the final result of the game besides rewarding Galarraga with the perfect game that he so obviously rightfully pitched!

I take it you've never seen any video from the 1985 World Series.

 

This stuff happens. MLB has umpires so they don't have desk jockeys having to rule on controversial plays.

 

Of course I've seen the 85 World Series and that horrendous call too. Whats your point? That doesnt make either call right. And again, my argument that changing this doesnt change the final result of the game. Say what you want about the 85 series, but there was a game 7 too. Game 7 was at least a chance for the Cardinals to win again. Same concept as Bartman costing the Cubs the NLCS... thats monkey crap cause the Cubs also lost in Game 7. My point here is that Galaragga cant go out there tomorrow and try again. Joyce blew it and its a big deal.

 

All I want is for Galarraga to get the reward he deserves, which he was clearly robbed of.

If that call had been made correctly, the probability of St. Louis winning that series would have increased dramatically. The point is that MLB tries to maintain a policy of leaving this up to the umpires, as they should.

]

 

You're absolutely correct about St Louis... then again, they had 9 innings in game 7 to try and overcome the bad call. Galarraga's perfection was taken from him and he had ZERO opportunity to overcome it, period. Its not like Joyce can say, "hey I blew that call but if you get the next guy you get the perfect game." Joyce stole the feat from him and thats it, and thats not right.

 

And i understand and appreciate how MLB respects umpire's decisions... but this is just beyond that, when everyone knows the call was wrong, I dont get how MLB can sit back, cross their arms and somehow support that call.

The point is that all perfect games, no-hitters, and World Series victories need to be able to withstand the human element (umpiring of the game) until MLB actively changes the rules.

 

Overruling a call at this point is unprecdented and dangerous. Even if they do reserve the call (and I think they still might), this game will forever be shrouded with controversy even if it enters the history books as the 21st perfect game.

 

Keep in mind that you can't even protest games over judgment calls, even if they affect the outcomes. This would be incredibly unprecedented.

Controversy only because of the blown call, not because of the accomplishment. There is no controversy that Galarraga got a perfect game.

 

What precedent would this set? It's a special situation.

Controversy only because of the blown call, not because of the accomplishment. There is no controversy that Galarraga got a perfect game.

 

What precedent would this set? It's a special situation.

 

That's the point. Everyone already knows he retired 28 batters. It won't add anything at this point to reverse the call officially.

 

The precedent is that it could lead to retroactive overturned calls in judgment situations. Bad calls happen under the current rules. If MLB wants to do something they should put more pressure on the umpires or implement some sort of scenario where there is an umpire in a both looking at replays. It should not be the commissioner's office ruling on judgment calls.

At this point, the only thing upsetting me more than the blown call... is having to see Jorge Julio's ugly face so many times during this thread.

]

 

You're absolutely correct about St Louis... then again, they had 9 innings in game 7 to try and overcome the bad call. Galarraga's perfection was taken from him and he had ZERO opportunity to overcome it, period. Its not like Joyce can say, "hey I blew that call but if you get the next guy you get the perfect game." Joyce stole the feat from him and thats it, and thats not right.

 

And i understand and appreciate how MLB respects umpire's decisions... but this is just beyond that, when everyone knows the call was wrong, I dont get how MLB can sit back, cross their arms and somehow support that call.

 

 

 

It's not that they support the call. They will show support for Joyce because they have to, otherwise he would feel isolated.

 

If the MLB suddenly stepped in, then would you want them to step in every time a bad call was made? You can't just say that this was a special exception.

 

Part of the game of baseball is human error.