Nathan Horton, Gregory Campbell traded

[jmenjes]

For Dennis Wideman, #15 pick in this year's draft, and a 3rd rounder in 2011.

[Erick]

To Boston: Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell

To Florida: Dennis Wideman, 15th pick in this year's draft, and a 3rd rounder in '11.

 

The Panthers now have the 3rd, 15th, 33rd, 36th, and 50th picks in this year's draft.

 

This was Tallon's first move, and he certainly has a lot of options once the NHL Draft rolls around (Friday, 7 PM EST).

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/22/1694743/florida-panthers-trade-nathan.html

[Anonymous]

Ok, I'm officially a Panthers fan, but I'm ignorant because I've never watched hockey before. So, can you explain this move?

[Dr Beinfest]

Ok, I'm officially a Panthers fan, but I'm ignorant because I've never watched hockey before. So, can you explain this move?

 

 

 

Okay, what's likely happening is that Tallon is pretty much shuffling the roster. Horton wasn't a salary dump (should have been in my eyes). But essentially what happened here is that Dale Tallon sent out an email to all of the players as his first move as GM and asked them who honestly wants to be here. He got some responses (I'm sure much more than just this, more trades to come in the near future) and obviously Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell were two that said they'd like out. Thankfully we didn't re-sign Campbell because he's a waste of salary and a waste of a roster spot. He was good for a year, 2 seasons ago. Horton for Wideman and the 15th pick in the NHL draft was a move to get rid of a lazy Horton who established he didnt want to be here, and literally told the media just following the trade that he is finally going to give his best effort in Boston. Lol. Wideman, the defender we got in return, is a guy with a good amount of NHL experience, and proven at the all-star level once upon a time (not last year but the year before). I'm sure Tallon is hoping Wideman can revert to his 09 level of play, that way the Panthers will have a solid attack from the blue line. This may mean that Florida defender Kieth Ballard is on his way out as too much $$ is caught up in the defenders.

 

The 1st round pick (#15) is the real sweet part of the deal, however. With that, the Panthers now have picks #3, #15, #33, #36, #50, #92, #93, #123, #153, and #183 to use. That's 2 1st rounders, 3 2nd rounders, 2 4th rounders and 1 in the 5th, 6th, and 7th round.

 

Basically what this trade does is give Dale Tallon endless options. He can further dump salary by adding a player-pick combo such as a player like Cory Stillman to move up in the draft from any position. He can use the excess late picks to move up as well. He can trade the picks for other players to teams that are having severe cap difficulties (such as Chicago, Philly, or Washington).

 

I'm personally really excited for the draft because I know it's not like the past 4 years where 1 trade will be it for the Panthers... gonna be a lot of stuff going down between the draft and free agency. Hopefully re-modeling a new team!

[Anonymous]

So basically, we're rebuilding. Not so bad, I guess. Is our new GM an established GM, or is this is his first time?

[fauowls44]

So basically, we're rebuilding. Not so bad, I guess. Is our new GM an established GM, or is this is his first time?

 

 

He built the Blackhawks, so he knows what he is doing. Hopefully the Horton trade is just the start because now we are woefully thing up front. We just traded two forwards and we already couldn't score. We need to find at least 2 or 3 top 6 forwards this offseason.

[Dr Beinfest]

So basically, we're rebuilding. Not so bad, I guess. Is our new GM an established GM, or is this is his first time?

 

 

I want to stay away from the word rebuilding. I think of the many constrictions on our GM position, rebuilding is not a main option. We are more or less recycling to create a better structure (Which almost never works lol, it's why the Panthers have missed the playoffs for the past 10 years).

 

That's probably not Tallon's call. It's probably ownerships call, because they know if they dont at least make an effort at making the playoffs from now until they actually successfully make the playoffs, they are going to lose half of their season seat holders (which is already a small amount).

 

It's a half and half. It's not a rebuild because he is analyzing players to keep for this team, not for the future but now. It's why he is keeping Tomas Vokoun. If you were rebuilding, he's normally the first one out the door. Vokoun's staying, Weiss is probably staying, and Kulikov and Booth are staying. That's as much as we can promise from last years team, fortunately. And again, if the team were rebuilding, aquiring a guy like Wideman makes absolutely no sense. He's got the same exact contract as Horton (a tiny bit cheaper), and has the potential to be a very good defenseman once again.

 

He is definitely established. The Blackhawks refer to their team as "The team that Tallon built." so that is nice to know lol. Although dont expect the same exact stuff down here. In Florida, just like the Marlins, the Panthers have a self-imposed cap lower than the rest of the teams in the league. The only serious issue Tallon had in Chicago was cap-management. So now that he's not able to spend to the max, it'll be interesting to see how he handles free agency on July 1st.

[JetsMania]

So basically, we're rebuilding. Not so bad, I guess. Is our new GM an established GM, or is this is his first time?

 

 

They've been rebuilding since the 1995-1996 season...

 

 

If the Panthers miss the playoffs this upcoming season, which they almost certainly will, they will set an NHL record for most seasons in a row without making the playoffs.

[Dr Beinfest]

So basically, we're rebuilding. Not so bad, I guess. Is our new GM an established GM, or is this is his first time?

 

 

They've been rebuilding since the 1995-1996 season...

 

 

If the Panthers miss the playoffs this upcoming season, which they almost certainly will, they will set an NHL record for most seasons in a row without making the playoffs.

 

I think they already did set that record...

 

Anyways... they have been rebuilding since 2001-2002. That rebuilding process failed initially, as seen by the post-lockout Panthers. And from that point, around 2005, we never tried to rebuild again. Instead, we continued with the recycling process.

 

I wish they'd rebuild. I'd give up 2 more seasons. Although I know the rest of the fans wouldnt.

[MrMarlinPride]

Pretty good trade. Wideman is a pretty solid defenseman which we need.

I just hope we can get a solid offense player with that pick.

I'm gonna miss Nathan Horton as he was my favorite player when I 1st started watching hockey since he signed my shirt and hat after a game. Hope he does well.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info, Doc. lol

 

I thought Tallon was going to take over and rebuild the way Parcells did with Miami, but I guess not. It's nice to know he's established and is responsible for the Blackhawks winning the Stanley Cup, though.

[heat84]

@DR. Bienfest: How do you know that E-Mail thing happened? I would expect only 2 guys to say they DIDN'T want to leave. :lol

[Erick]

Ok, I'm officially a Panthers fan, but I'm ignorant because I've never watched hockey before. So, can you explain this move?

 

 

 

I'll be able to explain it further Friday night. This NHL Draft is crucial for the Panthers. 5 of the top 50 picks. 2 in the first round now. Basically, Tallon didn't want anyone who didn't want to be here; Horton was one of those guys. I think the trade = pretty much fair value, but we need offense. I expect a pick or two to be traded, and a well-known source among Panther fans has already stated on hfboards that one of our D men (who has complained about the organization not spending enough money) is likely to get traded, as well...thus making the acquisition of Wideman make some more sense, as well.

 

I'm just kinda pissed we let the Thrashers get Byfuglien from Chicago...hopefully we can get Versteeg from them. Or a player like that.

[Anonymous]

Damn, I need to get caught up on all these names.

[Dr Beinfest]

Pretty good trade. Wideman is a pretty solid defenseman which we need.

I just hope we can get a solid offense player with that pick.

I'm gonna miss Nathan Horton as he was my favorite player when I 1st started watching hockey since he signed my shirt and hat after a game. Hope he does well.

 

 

He also gave me the middle finger after a game on the team bus. His lazy ass can rott in hell for all I care. f***in ape lipped bastard.

 

@DR. Bienfest: How do you know that E-Mail thing happened? I would expect only 2 guys to say they DIDN'T want to leave. :lol

 

 

It was reported by Steve Gorten of the Sun Sentinel. I'm sure it's about half and half... there are two players we know who said want to be here. That would be Vokoun and Weiss, our two best players. And of course most likely Booth as well, he loves it here.

 

It doesnt matter if the rest of them want to be here or not because we dont need any of them they're all terrible. The email was more pertaining to important players who we'd actually want to keep ourselves. Horton and Campbell both obviously didnt want to be here. Horton was a lazy ghost and Campbell was a one-time has-been. Glad neither of them are Panthers, wish Campbell the better of luck in Boston and I hope Horton breaks his leg and ends his career

 

I'll be able to explain it further Friday night. This NHL Draft is crucial for the Panthers. 5 of the top 50 picks. 2 in the first round now. Basically, Tallon didn't want anyone who didn't want to be here; Horton was one of those guys. I think the trade = pretty much fair value, but we need offense. I expect a pick or two to be traded, and a well-known source among Panther fans has already stated on hfboards that one of our D men (who has complained about the organization not spending enough money) is likely to get traded, as well...thus making the acquisition of Wideman make some more sense, as well.

 

I'm just kinda pissed we let the Thrashers get Byfuglien from Chicago...hopefully we can get Versteeg from them. Or a player like that.

 

 

I'm honestly a fan of drafting with picks 2, 15, 33, and 36. If I were a GM I'd get rid of the rest of the picks, or use them to move my 33 or 15 up.

 

Send some of next year's picks too if the right offer pops up. Try and trade all of our expenses away. I want at least 3 of Allen, Ballard, Stillman, Olesz (if you can), Koistinen, and maybe even McCabe gone as part of a salary dump tomorrow. I'd even consider giving a team pick #50 to take Olesz. I mean I love Olesz but we could really use that cap space. Try not to take on any money... just free up roster spots and $$ to be able to buy into FA. But I want at least 4 picks to be made in the top 40.

[Erick]

Pretty good trade. Wideman is a pretty solid defenseman which we need.

I just hope we can get a solid offense player with that pick.

I'm gonna miss Nathan Horton as he was my favorite player when I 1st started watching hockey since he signed my shirt and hat after a game. Hope he does well.

 

 

He also gave me the middle finger after a game on the team bus. His lazy ass can rott in hell for all I care. f***in ape lipped bastard.

 

@DR. Bienfest: How do you know that E-Mail thing happened? I would expect only 2 guys to say they DIDN'T want to leave. :lol

 

 

It was reported by Steve Gorten of the Sun Sentinel. I'm sure it's about half and half... there are two players we know who said want to be here. That would be Vokoun and Weiss, our two best players. And of course most likely Booth as well, he loves it here.

 

It doesnt matter if the rest of them want to be here or not because we dont need any of them they're all terrible. The email was more pertaining to important players who we'd actually want to keep ourselves. Horton and Campbell both obviously didnt want to be here. Horton was a lazy ghost and Campbell was a one-time has-been. Glad neither of them are Panthers, wish Campbell the better of luck in Boston and I hope Horton breaks his leg and ends his career

 

I'll be able to explain it further Friday night. This NHL Draft is crucial for the Panthers. 5 of the top 50 picks. 2 in the first round now. Basically, Tallon didn't want anyone who didn't want to be here; Horton was one of those guys. I think the trade = pretty much fair value, but we need offense. I expect a pick or two to be traded, and a well-known source among Panther fans has already stated on hfboards that one of our D men (who has complained about the organization not spending enough money) is likely to get traded, as well...thus making the acquisition of Wideman make some more sense, as well.

 

I'm just kinda pissed we let the Thrashers get Byfuglien from Chicago...hopefully we can get Versteeg from them. Or a player like that.

 

 

I'm honestly a fan of drafting with picks 2, 15, 33, and 36. If I were a GM I'd get rid of the rest of the picks, or use them to move my 33 or 15 up.

 

Send some of next year's picks too if the right offer pops up. Try and trade all of our expenses away. I want at least 3 of Allen, Ballard, Stillman, Olesz (if you can), Koistinen, and maybe even McCabe gone as part of a salary dump tomorrow. I'd even consider giving a team pick #50 to take Olesz. I mean I love Olesz but we could really use that cap space. Try not to take on any money... just free up roster spots and $$ to be able to buy into FA. But I want at least 4 picks to be made in the top 40.

 

 

Yeah, I'd trade Olesz for just about anything.

As for the rest of the players being terrible/it doesn't matter if they want to be here, I certainly hope at least Frolik and Kulikov want to be a key part of the team's future. Especially Kulikov. I really hope he develops into the #1 D man; I think he can.

 

Also, I'm hoping either Edmonton or Boston makes a stupid move, and we're able to steal Seguin at #3. That would be too good to be true, though...

[Dr Beinfest]

Yeah lol, that would be too good to be true.

 

I've always been edgy about Kulikov. Not that I feel as though he isnt going to be good... but I feel that there were much safer picks. He started the season off very good, but post injury left him very dull and unexciting.

[Erick]

Solid night for the Panthers tonight. 4 2nd rounders tomorrow, as well, including 2 early in the 2nd. Tallon seems to know what he's doing.

[Dr Beinfest]

Being in Florida has a lot of downfalls. A lot of your guys dont get noticed, etc., and it's not a hot free agency spot. But... I just noticed a huge benefit after today. Man, nobody realized how bad Keith Ballard was last season. The fact that they are going to give us Grabner AND a 1st round pick for Ballard AND his fat contract? Boy do I feel good lol.

 

Oreskovich + Ballard = 4.975

Bernier(perfect 3rd liner) + Grabner = 2.765

 

Savings of 2.21 million.

 

Now what would be absolutely sick would be to see Cory Stillman get dealt for a pick in the 40s. Get us our 5th 2nd rounder. Unload 3.5 million.

 

Savings down to 5.71 million. That equals an Alex Frolov if you want.

 

Panthers have about 13 million in cap space as they stand right now. If they can unload on Stillman or Olesz and Allen or McCabe (one from each group) or maybe even 3 of the 4, they can save around 7 million more opening up about 20 million bucks. Granted the Panthers at most would only go to about 53 million, that still gives us about 14 million to spend. We are going to have defensemen in Gudbranson (maybe), Kulikov, Wideman, Clay Wilson, and one of either Allen or McCabe (hopefully one is gone), along with scraps like Koistinen who we probably cant get rid of. That pretty much leaves one free agent defenseman, maybe two if we can get rid of Koistinen. But lets stick with one.

 

And up front the Panthers have 12 forwards under contract, although one or two are gone. That leaves for one or two forward signings. Of course someone like Jeff Taffe could very well be waived.

 

So lets stick with about 14 million to spend, and 1 or 2 forwards and 1 or 2 defensmen.

 

dish 9 to Kovalchuk 5 to Frolov. Problem solved

 

Okay that's dreaming, but Frolov and a good center could be had for 10 million combined, plus another 4 million for a decent 2nd pairing defender.

 

I'm a Panthers fan. I'm allowed to dream.

[Erick]

Being in Florida has a lot of downfalls. A lot of your guys dont get noticed, etc., and it's not a hot free agency spot. But... I just noticed a huge benefit after today. Man, nobody realized how bad Keith Ballard was last season. The fact that they are going to give us Grabner AND a 1st round pick for Ballard AND his fat contract? Boy do I feel good lol.

 

Oreskovich + Ballard = 4.975

Bernier(perfect 3rd liner) + Grabner = 2.765

 

Savings of 2.21 million.

 

Now what would be absolutely sick would be to see Cory Stillman get dealt for a pick in the 40s. Get us our 5th 2nd rounder. Unload 3.5 million.

 

Savings down to 5.71 million. That equals an Alex Frolov if you want.

 

Panthers have about 13 million in cap space as they stand right now. If they can unload on Stillman or Olesz and Allen or McCabe (one from each group) or maybe even 3 of the 4, they can save around 7 million more opening up about 20 million bucks. Granted the Panthers at most would only go to about 53 million, that still gives us about 14 million to spend. We are going to have defensemen in Gudbranson (maybe), Kulikov, Wideman, Clay Wilson, and one of either Allen or McCabe (hopefully one is gone), along with scraps like Koistinen who we probably cant get rid of. That pretty much leaves one free agent defenseman, maybe two if we can get rid of Koistinen. But lets stick with one.

 

And up front the Panthers have 12 forwards under contract, although one or two are gone. That leaves for one or two forward signings. Of course someone like Jeff Taffe could very well be waived.

 

So lets stick with about 14 million to spend, and 1 or 2 forwards and 1 or 2 defensmen.

 

dish 9 to Kovalchuk 5 to Frolov. Problem solved

 

Okay that's dreaming, but Frolov and a good center could be had for 10 million combined, plus another 4 million for a decent 2nd pairing defender.

 

I'm a Panthers fan. I'm allowed to dream.

 

 

 

Reports are that the Panthers are going to be at or near the cap floor this year, so I'm not expecting big free agent signings. With that said, having cap room is never a bad thing, and all these picks...some of them are going to pan out and be a part of our future. Nice to have a GM willing to make significant changes, and actually not half-assing a rebuild, etc. Seems like Tallon understands the importance of building through the draft. Half credit goes to Sexton for giving us almost all these 2nd rounders, I guess.

[Anonymous]

About the NHL Draft, is it valuable like the NFL draft, or is it more like a NBA draft?

[Erick]

About the NHL Draft, is it valuable like the NFL draft, or is it more like a NBA draft?

 

 

 

 

 

It's more like the MLB draft. Only certain elites go straight to the NHL (Gudbranson, the Panthers 1st pick tonight will be one of them). Plenty go to develop elsewhere. This is unlike NFL/NBA where the majority of the players selected make the big team.

[Dr Beinfest]

About the NHL Draft, is it valuable like the NFL draft, or is it more like a NBA draft?

 

 

The NHL draft in my eyes is the ideal draft from all sports. Call me biased if you want, but baseball is too deep of a draft to fully grasp, and cannot really be approached much from a fans perspective. Basketball is too short, and a lot of players end up being 'undrafted' but still make the NBA. It's also college-only so players are NBA ready or just about there when they are drafted. In the NFL they've got the same number of rounds as the NHL, 7, although similarly to the NBA most players are NFL ready and are coming out of the draft at the age of 22, and their developmental aspects are near to none because the NFL draft is mostly about physique.

 

In the NHL draft, they've got the ideal amount of rounds, and prospective analysis and farm teams similar to that in baseball. So the best of both worlds in my eyes. But it's not complete hit or miss like I feel it can be in baseball. That's just my opinion, though.

 

Anyways, it's pretty valuable. There is no such thing as building a team through free agency alone. You usually hit the cap before that happens, and in the NHL it has your typical cap, unlike the soft cap of the NBA or the varying uncapped years in the NFL. So breaking the cap really doesnt exist, unless you enter the season under it and aquire players which takes you over the cap. But anyways, the point is money is really restricted, and payroll plays little to no difference between teams, leaving two factors in building a team. Drafting/development of your players internally and attracting FAs in the offseason externally. All teams are on the same general playing field.

 

That being said, with picks 1-4 you usually have NHL ready players. The rest of the players, barring an anomoly such as Dimitry Kulikov, usually return to their respective junior program, and spend about a year there. Depending on talent level and position, they may take 1 year or 2 years in the AHL, and more for less talented players. Typically defensemen take longer to develop, although considering the Panthers probably dont want to send Gudbranson back to his junior team and at the same time are not eligible to place him in the AHL (must be 20 years of age), he'll probably find his way onto the NHL roster.

 

The fact that the Panthers picked 3 times in the 1st round means a lot. The fact that they are going to pick 4 times in the 2nd round is also a lot. The 3rd round is where talent starts to drop off, and it starts to become much more hit-or-miss. Depending on how deep the draft is, of course. Honestly if I were a GM, I'd prefer shipping off anything past the 4th round if it could move up my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round picks, but that's just me. Very few guys actually make it out of those rounds, but it happens for sure.

 

Also, look out for the Chicago Blackhawks who pick 5 times in the 2nd round. 8 teams in the NHL hold 22 picks in the 2nd round (Panthers hold 4, you get the idea). This smells for a busy day tomorrow in terms of trades.

[Erick]

I still see the Panthers getting a center tomorrow, at some point. I highly doubt they're going with Reinprecht as the 2nd line C, again. I'm sure Tallon wants to get bigger, and despite these moves; I don't think he's tanking next year, as he's keeping Vokoun.

 

The Ballard trade was a steal for us. A 1st round pick + Grabner who could probably score 20-30 goals for us this year. He has potential. Bernier is just a salary dump to me, but considering he's the worst player, at the very least we got a big body willing to go to the front of the net. All of that for Ballard and Oreskovich, who is probably a career AHL'er when all is said and done.

[Dr Beinfest]

Reports are that the Panthers are going to be at or near the cap floor this year, so I'm not expecting big free agent signings. With that said, having cap room is never a bad thing, and all these picks...some of them are going to pan out and be a part of our future. Nice to have a GM willing to make significant changes, and actually not half-assing a rebuild, etc. Seems like Tallon understands the importance of building through the draft. Half credit goes to Sexton for giving us almost all these 2nd rounders, I guess.

 

 

Who reported this?

 

Honestly it wouldnt upset me... except for the fact that Vokoun is in net and purposely not paying to win is foolish because he wont allow you to be last. Honestly, though, whoever said it is probably more speculative. Either way, I'm happy with cap space right now because next season our payroll falls tremendously to 23 million (with the need of a goalie, Markstrom, on a rookie contract), 2 rookie contract defensemen, a Bryan McCabe who will be much, much, cheaper, Stillman dump, just leaves about 30 million from the cap. That's disgusting.

 

Anyways, I think the Panthers are pretty much done in this draft. I'm sure Tallon was listening to offers but it was stupid offers like "top 2 2nd rounders for Versteeg" when in reality Versteeg could get 36 or 50 if Chicago's lucky.