November 30, 201015 yr http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101130&content_id=16228244&vkey=news_fla&c_id=fla
November 30, 201015 yr Love it. It would be awesome if we could swap Nunez for a lefty and get a power bat off the bench.
November 30, 201015 yr Love it. It would be awesome if we could swap Nunez for a lefty and get a power bat off the bench. What would be awesome is to do all of this for a $60 million payroll and keep Nunez. Having a ridiculous pen of Nunez, Hensley, Webb, Mujica, Sanches, Free Agent Lefty (not that deep, the best names are like Ohman, Feliciano, and Beimel once we ignore Scott Downs who will make a ton), and Mike Dunn. But I will settle turning Nunez into a lefty and two veteran outfielders for the bench.
November 30, 201015 yr I liked your idea about Hisanori Takahashi being added to the pen. A lefty who can also start and is effective against LH and RH hitters. Is old but think he would be a nice add.. also, like I just mentioned in the hawpe thread, I think Kotsay would be a nice add to the bench. Takahashi vs. the East: vs ATL: 10 IP, 0.90 ERA, 11 K/3 BB vs PHI: 13.1 IP, 0.68 ERA, 10 K/2 BB vs. WAS: 14.1 IP, 1.88 ERA, 16 K/4 BB The only team in the East he had a problem with was us (7.79 ERA in 17 IP)
November 30, 201015 yr Author I liked your idea about Hisanori Takahashi being added to the pen. A lefty who can also start and is effective against LH and RH hitters. Is old but think he would be a nice add.. also, like I just mentioned in the hawpe thread, I think Kotsay would be a nice add to the bench. Takahashi vs. the East: vs ATL: 10 IP, 0.90 ERA, 11 K/3 BB vs PHI: 13.1 IP, 0.68 ERA, 10 K/2 BB vs. WAS: 14.1 IP, 1.88 ERA, 16 K/4 BB The only team in the East he had a problem with was us (7.79 ERA in 17 IP) I know I mentioned him before, but it doesn't make much sense anymore. When I said that, the Marlins hadn't yet signed Javy Vazquez. The Marlins aren't going to pay Takahashi $5-6MM to be the bullpen lefty (in terms of being a LOOGY, Takahashi would probably be 2nd on the depth chart to Dunn because Dunn dominates lefties). Too much money, considering the way the team looks now. I was thinking of Takahashi back then more along the lines as a guy who could solidify the backend of the rotation (and be the lefty in the rotation). Takahashi for what he wants, and for what the Marlins currently need = way too much money. There are cheaper alternatives for the 2nd lefty role, who can be just as effective.
November 30, 201015 yr Love it. It would be awesome if we could swap Nunez for a lefty and get a power bat off the bench. What would be awesome is to do all of this for a $60 million payroll and keep Nunez. Having a ridiculous pen of Nunez, Hensley, Webb, Mujica, Sanches, Free Agent Lefty (not that deep, the best names are like Ohman, Feliciano, and Beimel once we ignore Scott Downs who will make a ton), and Mike Dunn. But I will settle turning Nunez into a lefty and two veteran outfielders for the bench. That would be awesome, too. Signing Hisanori Takahashi to be our lefty would make our bullpen ridiculously good.
November 30, 201015 yr I thought Mike Dunn was going to be our Loogy. That's why I liked the idea of Takahashi. A lefty could get both left and right handed hitters out.
November 30, 201015 yr I liked your idea about Hisanori Takahashi being added to the pen. A lefty who can also start and is effective against LH and RH hitters. Is old but think he would be a nice add.. also, like I just mentioned in the hawpe thread, I think Kotsay would be a nice add to the bench. Takahashi vs. the East: vs ATL: 10 IP, 0.90 ERA, 11 K/3 BB vs PHI: 13.1 IP, 0.68 ERA, 10 K/2 BB vs. WAS: 14.1 IP, 1.88 ERA, 16 K/4 BB The only team in the East he had a problem with was us (7.79 ERA in 17 IP) I know I mentioned him before, but it doesn't make much sense anymore. When I said that, the Marlins hadn't yet signed Javy Vazquez. The Marlins aren't going to pay Takahashi $5-6MM to be the bullpen lefty (in terms of being a LOOGY, Takahashi would probably be 2nd on the depth chart to Dunn because Dunn dominates lefties). Too much money, considering the way the team looks now. I was thinking of Takahashi back then more along the lines as a guy who could solidify the backend of the rotation (and be the lefty in the rotation). Takahashi for what he wants, and for what the Marlins currently need = way too much money. There are cheaper alternatives for the 2nd lefty role, who can be just as effective. Being 35 years old, I didn't think he would cost nearly that much. But if that is his price, I would agree.
November 30, 201015 yr Author I thought Mike Dunn was going to be our Loogy. That's why I liked the idea of Takahashi. A lefty could get both left and right handed hitters out. Takahashi is not super awesome against righties or anything. I mean, he wants Scott Downs money because he had a good year last year, but he's not Scott Downs. He had a 4.36 FIP against righties last year. Not bad, but not shutdown bullpen guy great, either. Not worth the money, especially considering the Marlins history/payroll budget/they still have bigger areas of need on the team...LIKE CF. Also...regarding Dunn, he's not Taylor Tankersley. He's not a guy who just gets hit like crazy everytime he faces a righty. The problem with Dunn last year against righties was his 10.61 BB/9 rate. He has control issues, but I highly doubt the BB/9 # will be that bad next year, as the sample sizes become more telling. In terms of stuff, Dunn can get anyone out. He held righties to a .210 batting average with a 8.68 K/9, which indicates that the stuff is certainly there. As of right now, he's just a guy who can dominate lefties, but I personally think he can be more than that in the future. He's one of those guys who'll get labeled as having "closer stuff;" he just needs to get the walks down to a non-laughable rate.
November 30, 201015 yr Author I liked your idea about Hisanori Takahashi being added to the pen. A lefty who can also start and is effective against LH and RH hitters. Is old but think he would be a nice add.. also, like I just mentioned in the hawpe thread, I think Kotsay would be a nice add to the bench. Takahashi vs. the East: vs ATL: 10 IP, 0.90 ERA, 11 K/3 BB vs PHI: 13.1 IP, 0.68 ERA, 10 K/2 BB vs. WAS: 14.1 IP, 1.88 ERA, 16 K/4 BB The only team in the East he had a problem with was us (7.79 ERA in 17 IP) I know I mentioned him before, but it doesn't make much sense anymore. When I said that, the Marlins hadn't yet signed Javy Vazquez. The Marlins aren't going to pay Takahashi $5-6MM to be the bullpen lefty (in terms of being a LOOGY, Takahashi would probably be 2nd on the depth chart to Dunn because Dunn dominates lefties). Too much money, considering the way the team looks now. I was thinking of Takahashi back then more along the lines as a guy who could solidify the backend of the rotation (and be the lefty in the rotation). Takahashi for what he wants, and for what the Marlins currently need = way too much money. There are cheaper alternatives for the 2nd lefty role, who can be just as effective. Being 35 years old, I didn't think he would cost nearly that much. But if that is his price, I would agree. He won't be cheap. I forgot the exact number, but I've seen rumors saying that he's looking for like $5-6MM per year (multi-year deal). The Phillies probably get him; they're desperate for lefty relief help, and seem to be the main team rumored to get him this offseason.
November 30, 201015 yr I thought Mike Dunn was going to be our Loogy. That's why I liked the idea of Takahashi. A lefty could get both left and right handed hitters out. Takahashi is not super awesome against righties or anything. I mean, he wants Scott Downs money because he had a good year last year, but he's not Scott Downs. He had a 4.36 FIP against righties last year. Not bad, but not shutdown bullpen guy great, either. Not worth the money, especially considering the Marlins history/payroll budget/they still have bigger areas of need on the team...LIKE CF. Also...regarding Dunn, he's not Taylor Tankersley. He's not a guy who just gets hit like crazy everytime he faces a righty. The problem with Dunn last year against righties was his 10.61 BB/9 rate. He has control issues, but I highly doubt the BB/9 # will be that bad next year, as the sample sizes become more telling. In terms of stuff, Dunn can get anyone out. He held righties to a .210 batting average, with a 8.68 K/9, which indicates that the stuff is certainly there. As of right now, he's just a guy who can dominate lefties, but I personally think he can be more than that in the future. He's one of those guys who'll get labeled as having "closer stuff;" he just needs to get the walks down to a non-laughable rate. Not super dominant, but effective. But yeah, for that money he's just too expensive. So I guess we might have to hope Dunn takes the next step and give him a more advanced role in the bullpen.
November 30, 201015 yr Author I thought Mike Dunn was going to be our Loogy. That's why I liked the idea of Takahashi. A lefty could get both left and right handed hitters out. Takahashi is not super awesome against righties or anything. I mean, he wants Scott Downs money because he had a good year last year, but he's not Scott Downs. He had a 4.36 FIP against righties last year. Not bad, but not shutdown bullpen guy great, either. Not worth the money, especially considering the Marlins history/payroll budget/they still have bigger areas of need on the team...LIKE CF. Also...regarding Dunn, he's not Taylor Tankersley. He's not a guy who just gets hit like crazy everytime he faces a righty. The problem with Dunn last year against righties was his 10.61 BB/9 rate. He has control issues, but I highly doubt the BB/9 # will be that bad next year, as the sample sizes become more telling. In terms of stuff, Dunn can get anyone out. He held righties to a .210 batting average, with a 8.68 K/9, which indicates that the stuff is certainly there. As of right now, he's just a guy who can dominate lefties, but I personally think he can be more than that in the future. He's one of those guys who'll get labeled as having "closer stuff;" he just needs to get the walks down to a non-laughable rate. Not super dominant, but effective. But yeah, for that money he's just too expensive. So I guess we might have to hope Dunn takes the next step and give him a more advanced role in the bullpen. It's not as if the Marlins need a lefty who can get both lefties and righties out, effectively (those guys are rare...would be nice if Dunn lowered his walk rate and became one of those guys, but whatever). Dunn being an effective LOOGY + another LOOGY would be fine, really. In terms of righties, the Marlins are absolutely fine in the bullpen. Webb is like a ROOGY (if such a term existed...he dominates righties), and Hensley and Mujica are guys who can get both righties/lefties out. Brian Sanches is also a guy who can be effective, and has much better looking peripherals against righties than he does against lefties. The bullpen projects to be top-tier, especially if Edwin Rodriguez manages it, effectively.
November 30, 201015 yr I think you guys don't quite get the concept of a LOOGY. It's not a lefty reliever, it's literally a lefty reliever who can only get 1 freaking guy out and they are not to be desired. It's a player of last resort when you can't get find a left hander who can get out a righty, but god damn can they come in on left handers. You don't fill or save a spot on the roster with this guy. You fill a roster with that guy if you can't fill a need otherwise and that's all you can get out of that spot. The Marlins need a left handed reliever, not a LOOGY. And we have no idea what Dunn is going to become yet to typecast him like this. I'm just going to ignore someone typed ROOGY. I'm just going to close my eyes, and hope to god I never see that again.
November 30, 201015 yr what does Ohman figure to make? I'd be just fine bringing him back. He hasn't exactly been a model of consistency last two years, (1.62, 1.50.... whips not era), and made $1.3 last year. My guess is he tries to get a 2 year, $2-3 total, type contract. If no one bites, he will settle on a 1 year $1-1.5. I'd be open to bringing him back LATER in the offseason. We have to much time to bring in a better left hander through trade or free agency or ruleV or all the other fun things that can happen in the baseball offseason. If we fail to do this, and it's late January, it might be time to go look for a lefty on a low rent deal just to have one. Not there yet, unless the Marlins are convinced he is going to pitch like his 12 innings as a Marlin over 60 innings in 2011. I find that doubtful.
November 30, 201015 yr ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
December 1, 201015 yr ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Who let dim out without supervision?
December 1, 201015 yr Author The Marlins need a left handed reliever, not a LOOGY. I disagree. And the candidates you mentioned (like Feliciano) are LOOGY's, not lefty relievers. How many true lefty relievers are there, really? Not many. Certainly not for the amount of money the Marlins would be willing to give up. The only guy who really fits your description is Scott Downs. Seriously, the candidates you mentioned are not lefty relievers; they're all LOOGY's. As for ROOGY, it was a joke on my part. Fact of the matter is, Ryan Webb is dominant against righties, and not nearly as good against lefties. That was the point I was trying to prove.
December 1, 201015 yr Author Love it. It would be awesome if we could swap Nunez for a lefty and get a power bat off the bench. What would be awesome is to do all of this for a $60 million payroll and keep Nunez. Having a ridiculous pen of Nunez, Hensley, Webb, Mujica, Sanches, Free Agent Lefty (not that deep, the best names are like Ohman, Feliciano, and Beimel once we ignore Scott Downs who will make a ton), and Mike Dunn. But I will settle turning Nunez into a lefty and two veteran outfielders for the bench. Those all are LOOGY's.
December 1, 201015 yr I think you guys don't quite get the concept of a LOOGY. It's not a lefty reliever, it's literally a lefty reliever who can only get 1 freaking guy out and they are not to be desired. It's a player of last resort when you can't get find a left hander who can get out a righty, but god damn can they come in on left handers. You don't fill or save a spot on the roster with this guy. You fill a roster with that guy if you can't fill a need otherwise and that's all you can get out of that spot. The Marlins need a left handed reliever, not a LOOGY. And we have no idea what Dunn is going to become yet to typecast him like this. I'm just going to ignore someone typed ROOGY. I'm just going to close my eyes, and hope to god I never see that again. Which is why I kind of mentioned the fact that I like Hisanori Takahashi before I found out how much money he's demanding. But, unless we can afford Scott Downs, I think we have to settle with Dunn pitching in a more advanced role and signing a LOOGY.
December 1, 201015 yr The Marlins need a left handed reliever, not a LOOGY. I disagree. So, what you're saying is, you want someone who can only do one thing versus doing two things. You want a specialist, and not an all around player. Noted.
December 1, 201015 yr Author The Marlins need a left handed reliever, not a LOOGY. I disagree. So, what you're saying is, you want someone who can only do one thing versus doing two things. You want a specialist, and not an all around player. Noted. Never said that. 1. I WANT a lefty reliever; don't necessarily think we NEED a lefty reliever. I'm pretty sure everyone WANTS a legit, all-around proven lefty reliever. Too bad those don't grow on trees. 2. You're still ignoring the fact that there is no lefty reliever on the market...unless if you're willing to pay Scott Downs (which is unrealistic). It seems like you're not recognizing an important fact. Most lefty relievers are LOOGY's. There are only about seven or eight legit, all-around lefty relievers in the big leagues; all-around lefty relievers are rare/not cheap. You either have to give up something significant to get them, pay them lots of money in FA, or develop them in the farm system. If you want a Feliciano, Ohman, Beimel type...you want a LOOGY, not a lefty reliever. It seems like you're the one who's confusing the two.
December 1, 201015 yr Love it. It would be awesome if we could swap Nunez for a lefty and get a power bat off the bench. What would be awesome is to do all of this for a $60 million payroll and keep Nunez. Having a ridiculous pen of Nunez, Hensley, Webb, Mujica, Sanches, Free Agent Lefty (not that deep, the best names are like Ohman, Feliciano, and Beimel once we ignore Scott Downs who will make a ton), and Mike Dunn. But I will settle turning Nunez into a lefty and two veteran outfielders for the bench. Those all are LOOGY's. That doesn't mean it's ideal. It means we're settling. What don't you get?
December 1, 201015 yr Author Love it. It would be awesome if we could swap Nunez for a lefty and get a power bat off the bench. What would be awesome is to do all of this for a $60 million payroll and keep Nunez. Having a ridiculous pen of Nunez, Hensley, Webb, Mujica, Sanches, Free Agent Lefty (not that deep, the best names are like Ohman, Feliciano, and Beimel once we ignore Scott Downs who will make a ton), and Mike Dunn. But I will settle turning Nunez into a lefty and two veteran outfielders for the bench. Those all are LOOGY's. That doesn't mean it's ideal. It means we're settling. What don't you get? My point is that it's irrelevant to say that we need a lefty reliever when you're mentioning LOOGY's; if we truly NEED a lefty reliever then we're screwed because we're not going to get one. There's a better chance of Dunn developing into an all-around lefty reliever than those guys becoming anything more than LOOGY's.
December 1, 201015 yr As for ROOGY, it was a joke on my part. Fact of the matter is, Ryan Webb is dominant against righties, and not nearly as good against lefties. That was the point I was trying to prove. Oh if that doesn't bring me back to Optimist Leagues when kids were trying to pitch... Nobody could throw a strike to a left handed batter! Not in the strike zone anyways, they usually got themselves out... Ha.
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