Erick, Volstad had a 4.34 FIP and a 4.44 xFIP last year. He wasnt that bad.

 

He's somewhere between average and not good, but god, hearing you talk about him, you'd think he was hopeless.

I don't think we should be scared of Javier Vasquez. If you watched his last game, you could see he was improving more and more each inning. Just a matter of time before he settles in.

 

As for Volstad, I do think he's regressing, which does scare me. However, like bobob1313 said, he's only 24. Although he's struggling now, he should be given time.

 

 

 

I could be wrong about Vazquez, but I don't see how he puts up anything better than an ERA in the low-to-mid 4's this year. Best case scenario. He's not the same guy; his fastball velocity has dropped and his stuff in general isn't as good as it once was. He was a guy who relied on the strikeout for his success, so he might have to re-invent himself at some point if he's going to have consistent success.

 

As for Volstad, I think it's irrelevant that he's 24. He might improve, but if he improves, his #'s indicate that his upside is limited, anyway. Andrew Miller was 24 once, as well; it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

 

I hate to do this, because I did this a lot for Andrew Miller, but at this stage of Volstad's career, it's very similar to Roy Halladay when he first came into the big leagues. Minor league numbers were similar, both had good rookie campaigns but then struggled. I just don't think it's appropriate to write off Volstad because he's struggling right now. Maybe a call down to the minors to work on something. But we shouldn't write off Volstad like Miller. Volstad has actually shown he can be good, both in the minors and Majors. Andrew Miller hasn't. Big difference.

 

 

Lets not do this, again.

 

Halladay's struggles in the big leagues came in his first few years in the big leagues when he didn't even know what his role was. By the time he was 24, he was already having success and he just continued it.

 

Halladay is also a rare case. He's now, arguably, the best in the game and he's clearly a rare exception, not a normality.

 

Expecting someone to magically turn their career around like Halladay did is basically being optimistically delusional.

 

I'm not saying Volstad won't improve; actually, I wouldn't doubt that he improves some. Certain parts of his game are improving (such as his walk rate, which has improved every year). However, when you look at his overall #'s, and his stuff for that matter, you basically see a guy who just is who he is.

 

Point is, he struggled like Volstad. And he wasn't very good. He needed a call down to the minors to revive his career.

 

But your right. Halladay is an exception and Volstad won't be another Halladay. It's just an example to prove that we shouldn't just toss Volstad aside and say he sucks. He's 24. We were all yelling and screaming to give Hermida chances. Volstad deserves the same patience.

Erick, Volstad had a 4.34 FIP and a 4.44 xFIP last year. He wasnt that bad.

 

He's somewhere between average and not good, but god, hearing you talk about him, you'd think he was hopeless.

 

 

 

I'm not saying he's the worst pitcher in the big leagues; I'm just saying that he's simply not good.

 

Also, the FIP/xFIP #'s wouldn't even be all that concerning to me, if his GB rates stayed steady. He's a groundball pitcher so his FIP/xFIP won't always be telling for overall results; Tim Hudson, for example, has a career FIP/xFIP near 4, but his career ERA is mid-3's.

 

The biggest concern I see with Volstad is that he's gone from getting groundballs 53% of the time his rookie year, to 49% his second year, to 47% last year. That constant regression leads me to believe that there's also a possibility that he might become worse.

 

For a guy who's below average at getting strikeouts, his GB% should be a lot better than 47%.

I don't think we should be scared of Javier Vasquez. If you watched his last game, you could see he was improving more and more each inning. Just a matter of time before he settles in.

 

As for Volstad, I do think he's regressing, which does scare me. However, like bobob1313 said, he's only 24. Although he's struggling now, he should be given time.

 

 

 

I could be wrong about Vazquez, but I don't see how he puts up anything better than an ERA in the low-to-mid 4's this year. Best case scenario. He's not the same guy; his fastball velocity has dropped and his stuff in general isn't as good as it once was. He was a guy who relied on the strikeout for his success, so he might have to re-invent himself at some point if he's going to have consistent success.

 

As for Volstad, I think it's irrelevant that he's 24. He might improve, but if he improves, his #'s indicate that his upside is limited, anyway. Andrew Miller was 24 once, as well; it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

 

I hate to do this, because I did this a lot for Andrew Miller, but at this stage of Volstad's career, it's very similar to Roy Halladay when he first came into the big leagues. Minor league numbers were similar, both had good rookie campaigns but then struggled. I just don't think it's appropriate to write off Volstad because he's struggling right now. Maybe a call down to the minors to work on something. But we shouldn't write off Volstad like Miller. Volstad has actually shown he can be good, both in the minors and Majors. Andrew Miller hasn't. Big difference.

 

 

Lets not do this, again.

 

Halladay's struggles in the big leagues came in his first few years in the big leagues when he didn't even know what his role was. By the time he was 24, he was already having success and he just continued it.

 

Halladay is also a rare case. He's now, arguably, the best in the game and he's clearly a rare exception, not a normality.

 

Expecting someone to magically turn their career around like Halladay did is basically being optimistically delusional.

 

I'm not saying Volstad won't improve; actually, I wouldn't doubt that he improves some. Certain parts of his game are improving (such as his walk rate, which has improved every year). However, when you look at his overall #'s, and his stuff for that matter, you basically see a guy who just is who he is.

 

Point is, he struggled like Volstad. And he wasn't very good. He needed a call down to the minors to revive his career.

 

But your right. Halladay is an exception and Volstad won't be another Halladay. It's just an example to prove that we shouldn't just toss Volstad aside and say he sucks. He's 24. We were all yelling and screaming to give Hermida chances. Volstad deserves the same patience.

 

The people who screamed to give Hermida a chance screamed because of his overall season in 2007, which was actually really impressive. His 2nd half, in particular, was rather great.

He obviously didn't pan out, but there were obvious signs to be optimistic about, at the time.

 

In comparison to Volstad who, as of right now, is just meh.

The current Volstad basically is to pitchers what the current Hermida is to hitters. Meh.

He had a good year in 07. In 08, however, he wasn't very good. Yet, we made the excuse that he's young and should be given one more chance. The same should apply to Volstad. He didn't have a very good second half like Hermida, but he's shown he can pitch up here.

 

And no, Volstad and Hermida aren't the same. Hermida isn't even on a major league roster right now. He's been given a chance by 5 teams and hasn't produced.

He had a good year in 07. In 08, however, he wasn't very good. Yet, we made the excuse that he's young and should be given one more chance. The same should apply to Volstad. He didn't have a very good second half like Hermida, but he's shown he can pitch up here.

 

And no, Volstad and Hermida aren't the same. Hermida isn't even on a major league roster right now. He's been given a chance by 5 teams and hasn't produced.

 

 

 

Hermida had more upside at the time than Volstad has now; that was probably the reason for some of the optimism, at the time (myself included).

 

Volstad's upside is limited, when you look at all of his peripherals. There's very little that "excites" you; it just leads you to say that "he can be/is a good #5." When the best thing you can say about a pitcher is that he can be a good #5 (maybe with the upside to be a #4, as of now, all things considered), that guy just isn't very good.

 

Also, for what it's worth, Volstad's "rookie year"/best year was just a sample of 84 innings. Not a very telling sample size, to be honest. Definitely not anywhere near a full season in the big leagues. Hermida had a rather impressive, full season in the big leagues at the time, for comparison's sake.

Volstad's upside or potential isn't as high as Hermida's, but he still as good upside and shouldn't be under the term "suck", as you like to put it. What he needs to do to be successful is produce GB, like he did when he was a rookie. It isn't that far fetched to think he can regain that form.

 

Hermida's "success" wasn't for a full year. It was for three months, like Volstad. He got hot in July, August and September. He had an average May and horrible June.

 

If you compare Volstad's WAR with Hermida, they are both identical. 3.2 WAR after 3 seasons.

speaking of volstad regressing, he just doesnt look like the same pitcher.

 

i remember a guy with a 91-93 mph fastball and sometimes a little bit more with a solid curveball and a good changeup.

 

now he throws 88-90 mostly, cant locate his curve, and often gets into trouble because he cant throw strikes and when he does its literally 90 down the heart of the plate.

 

so i dont know what to make of him but he honestly doesnt deserve to be in the rotation with what he has done since 2009.

 

he pitched a little bit better at the end of last year with tons of run support.

Just to confirm that I obviously DO watch the Marlins pitch aswell and LOVED watching JJ pitch last night. Some folk here cant detect sarcasm too well....

lets wait at least 4 starts before sending people down. The difference between this year from last year is if after 4 starts we decide vazquez isn't ready, we have pitchers that can pitch(we think) in the majors. Villanueva looks like he could do it, and koehler looks like he could work too, and once Sanabia comes off the DL we will have three viable options in the minors. and who knows maybe Sean west will figure things out.

JJ is an animal. His fastball seemed to be cutting a lot tonight.

 

Anyone else notice Hanley opened up his stance a pretty good amount?

 

I think me and Dim are the only ones who still like Uggla. Dont get me wrong I still don't want him to do well vs us but I still hope he plays well otherwise.

 

 

This what I have to say about that:

 

Dim and dom are dumb!

 

If you are gonna pile hate on Uggla for not wanting to stay here you will have to pile hate on every player that didn't want to stay or come here. That's a lot of hate to go around.

 

I don't blame Uggla for not wanting to stay. I understand his thinking. Just like some others before him, he got what he wanted. Now, just like some others before him, let's make him regret it.

5th starter. He's not good. He's not terrible. He's replaceable and we have replacements waiting. Its not a big deal.

 

 

Second this.

 

If he improves, and I do expect some improvement, he becomes a #4 starter. If not, there are others to fill in who hope to show they can be a #5 starter. Emphasis on "hope to show". Apparently right now he is the guy some want to dump on simply because they seem to need somebody to dump on.

lets wait at least 4 starts before sending people down. The difference between this year from last year is if after 4 starts we decide vazquez isn't ready, we have pitchers that can pitch(we think) in the majors. Villanueva looks like he could do it, and koehler looks like he could work too, and once Sanabia comes off the DL we will have three viable options in the minors. and who knows maybe Sean west will figure things out.

 

 

Suck or not, there is NO way Vasquez and his $7m is being sent down

lets wait at least 4 starts before sending people down. The difference between this year from last year is if after 4 starts we decide vazquez isn't ready, we have pitchers that can pitch(we think) in the majors. Villanueva looks like he could do it, and koehler looks like he could work too, and once Sanabia comes off the DL we will have three viable options in the minors. and who knows maybe Sean west will figure things out.

 

 

Suck or not, there is NO way Vasquez and his $7m is being sent down

 

And Elih and Koehler are really not blowing anyone away in the big leagues.

JJ is an animal. His fastball seemed to be cutting a lot tonight.

 

Anyone else notice Hanley opened up his stance a pretty good amount?

 

I think me and Dim are the only ones who still like Uggla. Dont get me wrong I still don't want him to do well vs us but I still hope he plays well otherwise.

 

 

This what I have to say about that:

 

Dim and dom are dumb!

 

If you are gonna pile hate on Uggla for not wanting to stay here you will have to pile hate on every player that didn't want to stay or come here. That's a lot of hate to go around.

 

I don't blame Uggla for not wanting to stay. I understand his thinking. Just like some others before him, he got what he wanted. Now, just like some others before him, let's make him regret it.

 

Alliteration, my dear BroncoBob. And even if I wasn't joking, I reserve the right to discriminate with my playa hatin.

Erick, Volstad had a 4.34 FIP and a 4.44 xFIP last year. He wasnt that bad.

 

He's somewhere between average and not good, but god, hearing you talk about him, you'd think he was hopeless.

 

 

 

I'm not saying he's the worst pitcher in the big leagues; I'm just saying that he's simply not good.

 

Also, the FIP/xFIP #'s wouldn't even be all that concerning to me, if his GB rates stayed steady. He's a groundball pitcher so his FIP/xFIP won't always be telling for overall results; Tim Hudson, for example, has a career FIP/xFIP near 4, but his career ERA is mid-3's.

 

The biggest concern I see with Volstad is that he's gone from getting groundballs 53% of the time his rookie year, to 49% his second year, to 47% last year. That constant regression leads me to believe that there's also a possibility that he might become worse.

 

For a guy who's below average at getting strikeouts, his GB% should be a lot better than 47%.

 

FWIW, groundball pitchers often overperform relative to their FIPs.

The starting poll would've been funnier with multiple iterations of JJ's name. :mischief

The starting poll would've been funnier with multiple iterations of JJ's name. :mischief

 

 

You suck. Also, you have used the mischief emoticon in the majority of your recent posts. What the?

:mischief

Question... I'm no good with baseball roster management but would it be possible to move Javy to the bullpen if he starts to really suck?

Question... I'm no good with baseball roster management but would it be possible to move Javy to the bullpen if he starts to really suck?

 

 

Who would you have replace him?

Erick, Volstad had a 4.34 FIP and a 4.44 xFIP last year. He wasnt that bad.

 

He's somewhere between average and not good, but god, hearing you talk about him, you'd think he was hopeless.

 

 

 

I'm not saying he's the worst pitcher in the big leagues; I'm just saying that he's simply not good.

 

Also, the FIP/xFIP #'s wouldn't even be all that concerning to me, if his GB rates stayed steady. He's a groundball pitcher so his FIP/xFIP won't always be telling for overall results; Tim Hudson, for example, has a career FIP/xFIP near 4, but his career ERA is mid-3's.

 

The biggest concern I see with Volstad is that he's gone from getting groundballs 53% of the time his rookie year, to 49% his second year, to 47% last year. That constant regression leads me to believe that there's also a possibility that he might become worse.

 

For a guy who's below average at getting strikeouts, his GB% should be a lot better than 47%.

 

FWIW, groundball pitchers often overperform relative to their FIPs.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I meant with the whole "his FIP isn't all that concerning to me."

I meant that his FIP and xFIP were fine. If he puts up a 4.34 ERA this year, nobody will have any right to complain.

Does Volstad even have any options left?

Does Volstad even have any options left?

 

 

Not sure about options but he does have an ultimatum - pitch well or bye bye.....