May 29, 201214 yr It's only been 4 years since i've started a topic on here but I find this to be a fairly interesting discussion. Following Juan Rodriguez on twitter, a lot of people seem to be calling for Brett Hayes to get more playing time over John Buck, with his abysmal average... But just in doing some quick research I found these statistics, which prove quite interesting. Focusing strictly on marlins win-loss record and runs allowed. In Brett Hayes' last 8 games, Marlins pitchers have allowed 56 runs. Marlins are 3-5 in those games. In John Buck's last 8 games, Marlins pitchers have allowed 29 runs. Marlins are 6-2 in those games... Small sample size, but i think it's part of the reason JB is still getting the playing time that he is.. Discuss!
May 29, 201214 yr It's only been 4 years since i've started a topic on here but I find this to be a fairly interesting discussion. Following Juan Rodriguez on twitter, a lot of people seem to be calling for Brett Hayes to get more playing time over John Buck, with his abysmal average... But just in doing some quick research I found these statistics, which prove quite interesting. Focusing strictly on marlins win-loss record and runs allowed. In Brett Hayes' last 8 games, Marlins pitchers have allowed 56 runs. Marlins are 3-5 in those games. In John Buck's last 8 games, Marlins pitchers have allowed 29 runs. Marlins are 6-2 in those games... Small sample size, but i think it's part of the reason JB is still getting the playing time that he is.. Discuss! I think those numbers are circumstantial, I still belive we need to give Hayes more playing time, at least 5 games in a row to gauge him
May 29, 201214 yr Brett Hayes doesn't start because he consistently strikes out ~29% of the time, walks at a below average rate, and once that .429 .BABIP of his goes down, he pretty much is what he is...............a backup catcher. He's a career .239/.292/.410 hitter in over 290 plate appearances. Not sure why you or anyone else thinks he's not starting because of what the pitcher has done in each of their respective 5 games caught. Brett Hayes track record suggests that he's not good at all. Their current peripherals indicate that Brett Hayes' success (which isn't really that successful) will revert back to mediocrity with more playing time, while John Buck's #'s should trend upward at some point. Not that the Marlins, as an organization, are really advanced in their thinking this way, but it's true. To the Marlins, John Buck is currently playing more because he makes more money. It's the same reason why Heath Bell is still closing games.
May 29, 201214 yr Alot can be said for the way a catcher can manage a game from behind the plate and with his pitch selections. I had that conversation with Buck and Baker last spring. Both admired how well Piazza called a game and made an impact on it that wasn't seen by many or made an impact on his offensive stats. That's why buck is valuable. If he can call the right pitch at the right time and notice when his pitcher has the right command of his stuff, he's been utilizing it. Nothing ive seen of Hayes suggests he has the ability to control a game when he goes 0-5 with 2 K's. Buck has. And I respect him for it.
May 29, 201214 yr For once I have done SOME research. Hayes is a part of the issue in my mind. Bell seems to be okay during his actual completed saves since Buck seems to be behind the plate. With Hayes back there, we have 4/8 meltdown Blown Save Loss against CIN 4/14 BS L vs Hou 4/26 BS L vs NYM 5/13 BS 2ER Win vs NYM And with Buck we have from what I saw 5/25 1/3 inning hold 5/26 Hold I think bucks relaying to Ozzie when bell does and doesn't have it. That's just what I've seen. My worst Nightmare now is Bell/ Hayes pitching battery From what I saw Bucks caught the majority of Bells saves this year.
May 29, 201214 yr For once I have done SOME research. Hayes is a part of the issue in my mind. Bell seems to be okay during his actual completed saves since Buck seems to be behind the plate. With Hayes back there, we have 4/8 meltdown Blown Save Loss against CIN 4/14 BS L vs Hou 4/26 BS L vs NYM 5/13 BS 2ER Win vs NYM And with Buck we have from what I saw 5/25 1/3 inning hold 5/26 Hold I think bucks relaying to Ozzie when bell does and doesn't have it. That's just what I've seen. My worst Nightmare now is Bell/ Hayes pitching battery From what I saw Bucks caught the majority of Bells saves this year. Or maybe Buck has nothing to do with that and the reason Ozzie's pulled Bell is because the two under Buck are the most recent and we've already seen Bell f*** it up enough times.
May 29, 201214 yr I really have no opinion on Hayes or Buck, except to say that you won't win a championship with either one of em. But for those who think Buck will improve, I'm curious as to how much you think he will?
May 30, 201214 yr I really have no opinion on Hayes or Buck, except to say that you won't win a championship with either one of em. But for those who think Buck will improve, I'm curious as to how much you think he will? To at least back to his career average numbers, that sort of area.
May 30, 201214 yr I really have no opinion on Hayes or Buck, except to say that you won't win a championship with either one of em. But for those who think Buck will improve, I'm curious as to how much you think he will? This way of thinking is wrong.
May 30, 201214 yr Yeah, John Buck is not holding this team back. Best record in the month says otherwise. Could it be upgraded? Yes. But neither catcher is really that good, so it doesn't matter.
May 30, 201214 yr For once I have done SOME research. Hayes is a part of the issue in my mind. Bell seems to be okay during his actual completed saves since Buck seems to be behind the plate. With Hayes back there, we have 4/8 meltdown Blown Save Loss against CIN 4/14 BS L vs Hou 4/26 BS L vs NYM 5/13 BS 2ER Win vs NYM And with Buck we have from what I saw 5/25 1/3 inning hold 5/26 Hold I think bucks relaying to Ozzie when bell does and doesn't have it. That's just what I've seen. My worst Nightmare now is Bell/ Hayes pitching battery From what I saw Bucks caught the majority of Bells saves this year. Or maybe Buck has nothing to do with that and the reason Ozzie's pulled Bell is because the two under Buck are the most recent and we've already seen Bell f*** it up enough times. Show me with statistics. Don't tell me with hyperbole.
May 30, 201214 yr For once I have done SOME research. Hayes is a part of the issue in my mind. Bell seems to be okay during his actual completed saves since Buck seems to be behind the plate. With Hayes back there, we have 4/8 meltdown Blown Save Loss against CIN 4/14 BS L vs Hou 4/26 BS L vs NYM 5/13 BS 2ER Win vs NYM And with Buck we have from what I saw 5/25 1/3 inning hold 5/26 Hold I think bucks relaying to Ozzie when bell does and doesn't have it. That's just what I've seen. My worst Nightmare now is Bell/ Hayes pitching battery From what I saw Bucks caught the majority of Bells saves this year. Or maybe Buck has nothing to do with that and the reason Ozzie's pulled Bell is because the two under Buck are the most recent and we've already seen Bell f*** it up enough times. Show me with statistics. Don't tell me with hyperbole. That's something that doesn't really need stats ...
May 30, 201214 yr For once I have done SOME research. Hayes is a part of the issue in my mind. Bell seems to be okay during his actual completed saves since Buck seems to be behind the plate. With Hayes back there, we have 4/8 meltdown Blown Save Loss against CIN 4/14 BS L vs Hou 4/26 BS L vs NYM 5/13 BS 2ER Win vs NYM And with Buck we have from what I saw 5/25 1/3 inning hold 5/26 Hold I think bucks relaying to Ozzie when bell does and doesn't have it. That's just what I've seen. My worst Nightmare now is Bell/ Hayes pitching battery From what I saw Bucks caught the majority of Bells saves this year. Or maybe Buck has nothing to do with that and the reason Ozzie's pulled Bell is because the two under Buck are the most recent and we've already seen Bell f*** it up enough times. Show me with statistics. Don't tell me with hyperbole. That's something that doesn't really need stats ... Yes, it does. The facts prove that Hayes cannot call a decent inning for Bell and doesn't understand his pitchers strengths and weaknesses. Thats' where a veteren catcher comes in handy. I do not believe Bell has blown a save with Buck behind the plate- be it by blind luck or gulliens yankings.
May 30, 201214 yr ZOMG were talking about this AGAIN. People, we're beating a dead horse here. While we're at it, let's bring back the trade Hanley discussion. And what do the two fingers by the eye after hits mean? ARE YOU WORRIED YET? This is retarded.
May 30, 201214 yr Worst hitting catcher in baseball vs the worst fielding catcher in baseball. If Buck continues to suck ass, something has to be done to straighten him out. He isnt making any adjustments right now and he may need a trip to minors sooner or later if his average drops below 150.
May 30, 201214 yr Worst hitting catcher in baseball vs the worst fielding catcher in baseball. If Buck continues to suck ass, something has to be done to straighten him out. He isnt making any adjustments right now and he may need a trip to minors sooner or later if his average drops below 150. If a guy is batting 150.000, I don't think he gotta do anything different. But in all seriousness, I don't think he CAN be sent down. Something about options. Can someone clarify for me? Anyways, I've got a feeling about Buck. We all know he's long, long, long overdue. He's gonna get over the .200 hump in June and to .225+ at the all-star break.
May 30, 201214 yr The facts prove that Hayes cannot call a decent inning for Bell and doesn't understand his pitchers strengths and weaknesses.. This post very badly misunderstands the difference correlation and causation. The facts, as they are, do not prove anything.
May 30, 201214 yr Trip to the minors? He may need one, but the only way he's going is if he agrees to it. Which he might, being a "team player" kind of guy, but who knows? He gets paid his full agreed salary for all 3 contract years whether he agrees or not. Like Bell, he has the 5+ years of MLB service that means the player's consent is required. Nothing to do with options.
May 30, 201214 yr For once I have done SOME research. Hayes is a part of the issue in my mind. Bell seems to be okay during his actual completed saves since Buck seems to be behind the plate. With Hayes back there, we have 4/8 meltdown Blown Save Loss against CIN 4/14 BS L vs Hou 4/26 BS L vs NYM 5/13 BS 2ER Win vs NYM And with Buck we have from what I saw 5/25 1/3 inning hold 5/26 Hold I think bucks relaying to Ozzie when bell does and doesn't have it. That's just what I've seen. My worst Nightmare now is Bell/ Hayes pitching battery From what I saw Bucks caught the majority of Bells saves this year. N No offense, but this is a pretty good example of why stats are flawed. Those two Holds are the games he was pulled because he wasn't throwing strikes. Nothing to do with who was behind the plate. Just reading the quotes and watching the games, I doubt very much whichever catcher is really calling the pitches. Bell shakes off alot of signals until he apparently gets the sign he wants. Part of a catcher signaling a pitcher is so they are on the same page as to what is coming next so the catcher can be ready for it. As in...high outside to low inside (just as an example). I also doubt either catcher is relaying to Ozzie when and if Bell isn't on. We all can see when he isn't. Ozzie has Bell on a short leash and when his pitches aren't working he has been pretty quick to yank him. That said, I do think Buck is the better catcher mainly because I think he calls a better all around game. As in with all the pitchers. That could be that he studies hitters more and their tendancies, he knows all the pitchers better and their tendancies, or maybe he just has a better head for the game. Probably the latter, but I don't know for sure.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.