October 1, 201411 yr Author He was named a NL comeback finalist! Good for him and all those ground balls that found holes in the first half of the season.
October 1, 201411 yr Good for him and all those ground balls that found holes in the first half of the season. mehhhh bahumbug
October 4, 201411 yr What is it as a starter? Erick, since you never addressed this and we have nothing to talk about... Bour as a starter: 62 PA (I know...) .333 BA, .388 OBP, .467 SLG, .855 OPS I think his season in NO combined with this audition should earn him a shot.
October 5, 201411 yr So what would it take to acquire this guy? http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post/_/id/8223 Eovaldi + Heaney + Capps + Conley + Dietrich? I doubt we have many pieces that Beane would want, but with his track record young pitching can make it happen. But I would hope Jennings/Hill would at least put themselves out there if Donaldson becomes available...
October 5, 201411 yr Erick, since you never addressed this and we have nothing to talk about... Bour as a starter: 62 PA (I know...) .333 BA, .388 OBP, .467 SLG, .855 OPS I think his season in NO combined with this audition should earn him a shot. Small sample/inflated .BABIP. Look, I have no problem with Bour. I just think that the team should try to...win now. There is a good core in place and signing a legit, proven bat is a need. I'm personally not counting on Bour to be the lineup's savior next year. Some might disagree, but I'd much rather see the front office do something like spend some money on a proven bat. Over time, I think we'd see that Bour isn't much better than Garrett Jones. The only reason we hate Jones so much more is because he had more opportunities to fail.
October 5, 201411 yr So what would it take to acquire this guy? http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post/_/id/8223 Eovaldi + Heaney + Capps + Conley + Dietrich? I doubt we have many pieces that Beane would want, but with his track record young pitching can make it happen. But I would hope Jennings/Hill would at least put themselves out there if Donaldson becomes available... No thanks.
October 5, 201411 yr Well Eovaldi's on a down year, so you would be stupid to trade him when his value is lowest. Heaney's the prize of the offer given his potential and Eovaldi's a nice piece, but Capps/Conley/Dietrich are kind of filler. You could probably find those kind of guys in any team's system. Not saying the offer isn't feasible (although it isn't. It'll take two or three of Javier Baez caliber prospects to get Donaldson), but getting Donaldson means dealing with Beane, and thus we'd have to give up more than just Eovaldi, Heaney and filler for a guy who has put up back to back 7+ WAR seasons. He's also arbitration eligible in 2015, which means a heavy pay raise. We're not the kind of team that needs to be going after Donaldson. I understand you are always looking to reach for the sky, but we are the Marlins not the Yankees/Red Sox/etc... Put your goal target lower than one of if not the best 3B in baseball currently. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the debate you bring with you, but sometimes the guys you talk about just make it sound like you don't understand how the Marlins have conducted business for many many years or about baseball economics. I'm fairly confident Casey is our 3B next season, so the goal would be to look for possible 1st basemen and maybe some cheap 2nd basemen in the free agent or trade market to target. Those are the positions that this team needs to and likely will look to improve on this offseason.
October 5, 201411 yr So what would it take to acquire this guy? http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post/_/id/8223 Eovaldi + Heaney + Capps + Conley + Dietrich? I doubt we have many pieces that Beane would want, but with his track record young pitching can make it happen. But I would hope Jennings/Hill would at least put themselves out there if Donaldson becomes available... Honestly.... Don't lie- Are you fucking stupid? Who in their right mind would trade two top shelf pitching prospects, a top 3 starter who has potential, a MR prospect who can close (it previously said start because immatard) and a 2b with pop for a 3B? Billy Beane would jump so fast at that you'd think he loaded up the Soda machine again. Two SP and Dietrich is enough. Three in a pitching starved league is murder.
October 5, 201411 yr This is fun. Dim thinks my proposal is too little, Piazza thinks it's a huge over pay. Erick, you?
October 5, 201411 yr Honestly.... Don't lie- Are you fucking stupid? Who in their right mind would trade two top shelf pitching prospects, a top 3 starter who has potential, a MR prospect who can start and a 2b with pop for a 3B? Billy Beane would jump so fast at that you'd think he loaded up the Soda machine again. Two SP and Dietrich is enough. Three in a pitching starved league is murder. You are pretty damn wrong on this one. Heaney's potential could go either way, Eovaldi hasn't put together a consistent season outside of 2013, and the Capps/Dietrich/Conley trio aren't guys who would be thought highly of by other teams. Just because you throw a lot of players together doesn't mean it's a good offer. Heaney would be the one piece Beane would want in the trade, and maybe Eovaldi but Beane has all the leverage to get him at a low rate given this past season. So basically it comes down to the fact that there are multiple players like Eovaldi/Capps/Dietrich/Conley in minor league and major league systems around the league, and none of these guys are going to be superstars (Eovaldi being the one guy with #2 potential if it all goes right). There's only been one Josh Donaldson, who has put up OMG style play and numbers the last two years. Basically Oakland A's fans will view Donaldson how we look at Stanton. Now think to yourself whether or not you'd take Heaney/Eovaldi/Capps/Dietrich/Conley for Stanton. The answer is no and it's not even close. This trade would never happen, and Beane would laugh on the phone and hang up. If I had to guess, Beane would ask for Heaney/Eovaldi/Kolek/Romero/German for Donaldson. It'll take an MLB caliber player (Eovaldi), a current top prospect (Heaney), a future top prospect (Kolek), and, and two guys who are young but have the potential to be great prospects (Romero and German). This offer may seem a bit heavy, and the Marlins would no doubt reject it, but this is what I think it would take to actually get Donaldson away from Oakland. Definitely not worth it.
October 5, 201411 yr Well Eovaldi's on a down year, so you would be stupid to trade him when his value is lowest. Heaney's the prize of the offer given his potential and Eovaldi's a nice piece, but Capps/Conley/Dietrich are kind of filler. You could probably find those kind of guys in any team's system. Not saying the offer isn't feasible (although it isn't. It'll take two or three of Javier Baez caliber prospects to get Donaldson), but getting Donaldson means dealing with Beane, and thus we'd have to give up more than just Eovaldi, Heaney and filler for a guy who has put up back to back 7+ WAR seasons. He's also arbitration eligible in 2015, which means a heavy pay raise. We're not the kind of team that needs to be going after Donaldson. I understand you are always looking to reach for the sky, but we are the Marlins not the Yankees/Red Sox/etc... Put your goal target lower than one of if not the best 3B in baseball currently. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the debate you bring with you, but sometimes the guys you talk about just make it sound like you don't understand how the Marlins have conducted business for many many years or about baseball economics. I'm fairly confident Casey is our 3B next season, so the goal would be to look for possible 1st basemen and maybe some cheap 2nd basemen in the free agent or trade market to target. Those are the positions that this team needs to and likely will look to improve on this offseason. Well, like I mentioned, we probably don't have the farm to get a bat like Donaldson without giving up something like this. Eovaldi is high risk, high reward as is Heaney. Capps could be their future closer with club control. Conley is a throw in, as is Dietrich, but Dietrich is actually a very Billy Beane-type hitter. It's not a perfect package for them, but it's enough talent and club control to probably make Beane happy.
October 5, 201411 yr From a player value standpoint, I think it's about right. I said "no thanks" because I don't think it makes this team much better. Dim already mentioned Donaldson's contract status. If we're making such a trade, we'd have to sign a couple of pitchers to fill the gap which I don't see the Marlins doing. I wouldn't be interested in making a deal that requires us to give up a large portion of our pitching depth. I've said it plenty of times before already, but I simply don't think that we're in a position to do such a thing. And if I'm nitpicking Donaldson's game (which is probably dumb because he's really good), I'll add that he's rather mediocre against right-handed pitching.
October 5, 201411 yr You are pretty damn wrong on this one. Heaney's potential could go either way, Eovaldi hasn't put together a consistent season outside of 2013, and the Capps/Dietrich/Conley trio aren't guys who would be thought highly of by other teams. Just because you throw a lot of players together doesn't mean it's a good offer. Heaney would be the one piece Beane would want in the trade, and maybe Eovaldi but Beane has all the leverage to get him at a low rate given this past season. So basically it comes down to the fact that there are multiple players like Eovaldi/Capps/Dietrich/Conley in minor league and major league systems around the league, and none of these guys are going to be superstars (Eovaldi being the one guy with #2 potential if it all goes right). There's only been one Josh Donaldson, who has put up OMG style play and numbers the last two years. Basically Oakland A's fans will view Donaldson how we look at Stanton. Now think to yourself whether or not you'd take Heaney/Eovaldi/Capps/Dietrich/Conley for Stanton. The answer is no and it's not even close. This trade would never happen, and Beane would laugh on the phone and hang up. If I had to guess, Beane would ask for Heaney/Eovaldi/Kolek/Romero/German for Donaldson. It'll take an MLB caliber player (Eovaldi), a current top prospect (Heaney), a future top prospect (Kolek), and, and two guys who are young but have the potential to be great prospects (Romero and German). This offer may seem a bit heavy, and the Marlins would no doubt reject it, but this is what I think it would take to actually get Donaldson away from Oakland. Definitely not worth it. There are very few players who are worth that type of return. There is no way that it would require all 4 of Heaney/Eovaldi/Kolek/German to get a deal done for Donaldson. That would be absurd.
October 5, 201411 yr So Dim thinks it's too little, Piazza says too much, and Erick and I are at "about right". I agree with you 100%, Erick, that it would make sense only if they were able to commit to a FA starter as well. This kind of deal would only make sense of Loria wanted to go balls out payroll wise to win, with Donaldson heading into arb, FA SP, Stanton extension, etc. But if they would spend that money, having Yelich/Ozuna/Stanton/Donaldson in a lineup would be pretty damn nice. If you want to improve your IF, getting the best 3B in the game will certainly help. And if Loria thinks they're close enough, he'll go for it. ESPECIALLY if he plans to sell the team in the next 2 years... Why not?
October 5, 201411 yr There are very few players who are worth that type of return. There is no way that it would require all 4 of Heaney/Eovaldi/Kolek/German to get a deal done for Donaldson. That would be absurd. I was thinking this when I was writing it, but I also think that would be what Billy Beane would ask for in a return. I think ultimately if you replace Kolek with a guy like Dietrich the deal would still get done in theory. So let me put this here Heaney would be the headline for Beane. A guy with Ace or more likely #2 potential at a very young age. Eovaldi would be like the second headliner, given his 2013 season, his still young age, experience and pure stuff. I also see Beane as seeing Eovaldi as one of those good "buy low" candidates. I still believe German and Romero would need to be added. Beane would want a good minor league pitcher at the low minors to stash, and German has real MLB potential even if he is a few years away. Romero is similar in that he'll need two to two and a half years, but has a great deal of potential and his position is still somewhat yet to be decided. When you throw in the fact that the A's started Alberto Callaspo all year, who posted a .580 (!!!!!!) OPS this year, I'm sure Beane would love love LOVE to get a guy like Dietrich who has real potential to be a .780 or so OPS guy with good power in the majors, plus he could start right away. I think Eovaldi/Heaney/Dietrich/German/Romero gets the job done. Would I personally be willing to do that deal? When I think about it without Kolek I'd actually be willing to consider trading these guys for Donaldson just because I think Donaldson is the real deal, but the Marlins would never do it given Donaldson's future contract situation. But it's definitely interesting to consider prospect wise, although in reality this isn't even going to be anywhere near the Marlins mind.
October 5, 201411 yr Let me also point out that trading for Donaldson would also mean going into 2015, the Marlins would not have the money to get anything close to a good free agent starting pitcher or to even resign Stanton to the deal he deserves at this point. The team with Donaldson/Stanton/good FA starting pitcher/current squad would have a team payroll of at least $85 million, could very easily reach the $100 million range. There's no chance in gods green earth Loria will field a team with a team payroll over $60-65 million ever again as long as he is owner.
October 5, 201411 yr Let me also point out that trading for Donaldson would also mean going into 2015, the Marlins would not have the money to get anything close to a good free agent starting pitcher or to even resign Stanton to the deal he deserves at this point. The team with Donaldson/Stanton/good FA starting pitcher/current squad would have a team payroll of at least $85 million, could very easily reach the $100 million range. There's no chance in gods green earth Loria will field a team with a team payroll over $60-65 million ever again as long as he is owner. Like I mentioned, it only makes sense if he will commit the money to get to the next level. If he were willing, ideally you would extend Stanton AND Donaldson if acquired. Having two players of that caliber locked up long term could also make the team more valuable if he decides to sell the team after a post season run or two...
October 5, 201411 yr So Dim thinks it's too little, Piazza says too much, and Erick and I are at "about right". I agree with you 100%, Erick, that it would make sense only if they were able to commit to a FA starter as well. This kind of deal would only make sense of Loria wanted to go balls out payroll wise to win, with Donaldson heading into arb, FA SP, Stanton extension, etc. But if they would spend that money, having Yelich/Ozuna/Stanton/Donaldson in a lineup would be pretty damn nice. If you want to improve your IF, getting the best 3B in the game will certainly help. And if Loria thinks they're close enough, he'll go for it. ESPECIALLY if he plans to sell the team in the next 2 years... Why not?
October 5, 201411 yr Heaney, Eovaldi and another guy (from our system, probably German) would get it done. Very few players are worth five guys like that. Billy Beane is about to lose Jon Lester and Jason Hammel, and he's going to lose Samardzjija (SP?) after next year (if he doesn't decide to trade him this offseason). When the A's lose in the fashion they did this year, Beane usually goes crazy and changes the team completely. Considering that he gave away his farm system to go all-in this year, he's probably going to want to build his farm system up again as he did when he traded Gio, Cahill, etc. and no one knew wtf he was doing. If a team were to offer something similar to Heaney/Eovaldi/German for Donaldson, Beane would probably take it.
October 5, 201411 yr Heaney, Eovaldi and another guy (from our system, probably German) would get it done. Very few players are worth five guys like that. Billy Beane is about to lose Jon Lester and Jason Hammel, and he's going to lose Samardzjija (SP?) after next year (if he doesn't decide to trade him this offseason). When the A's lose in the fashion they did this year, Beane usually goes crazy and changes the team completely. Considering that he gave away his farm system to go all-in this year, he's probably going to want to build his farm system up again as he did when he traded Gio, Cahill, etc. and no one knew wtf he was doing. If a team were to offer something similar to Heaney/Eovaldi/German for Donaldson, Beane would probably take it. I would make that deal in a heart beat. Throw in Dietrich for good measure, since the A's would need another bat and the Marlins are all but guaranteed to move him. I could live with a rotation of Alvarez/Cosart/Koehler/Nicolino/Hand until Jose gets back in order to have Donaldson.
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