Hai guys,

I wuz thinkin- why not trade for Tulo and Cargo? Both are coming off injuries and would be cheap.

 

Let's send them Solano and Eovaldi

 

In all seriousness, Tulo and Cargo would both be rather unimpressive in Miami in comparison to Denver. Tulo would still be the best SS in the game, but not 1.000+ OPS good, and CarGo is actually way below average outside of Colorado.

 

 

In all seriousness, Tulo and Cargo would both be rather unimpressive in Miami in comparison to Denver. Tulo would still be the best SS in the game, but not 1.000+ OPS good, and CarGo is actually way below average outside of Colorado.

 

 

 

Please....

Sabathia sucked last year. He may never be good again. I don't really understand how you guys see him as equal to tulo or cargo?

 

 

Eovaldi is more expendable than Koehler IMO, considering Koehler just had a far superior season and has more club control. It's an added bonus IMO that Eovaldi probably has more value, because I'd rather have Koehler anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

Please....

 

 

Look at their splits... it's kinda cray.

 

 

 

 

I don't really follow why this is so funny considering how much better Koehler was than Eovaldi this year. It wasn't even close, really.

 

 

Look at their splits... it's kinda cray.

 

 

 

I don't really follow why this is so funny considering how much better Koehler was than Eovaldi this year. It wasn't even close, really.

 

 

 

It's because the jokes on you.

Eovaldi is more expendable than Koehler IMO, considering Koehler just had a far superior season and has more club control. It's an added bonus IMO that Eovaldi probably has more value, because I'd rather have Koehler anyway.

 

 

 

Look at their splits... it's kinda cray.

 

I don't really follow why this is so funny considering how much better Koehler was than Eovaldi this year. It wasn't even close, really.

 

 

 

Because obviously Eovaldi's body of work is much greater and more impactful than Koehler's in the majors. It's like the Tigers wouldn't be jumping to replace Justin Verlander with Aaron Harang (let me preface this by stating the obvious. NO, I am not saying Verlander and Eovaldi are equal pitchers). On the surface Harang had a better ERA and on basic counting stats had a better season than Verlander, but are you seriously going to convince yourself that Harang is again going to have a better statistical season than Verlander because it happened in one player's career year and another player's career down year?

 

You basically are trying to make the point that Koehler is better than Eovaldi based on numbers produced in Koehler's best season ever and Eovaldi's worst. It is quite obvious to those following the team day in and day out, watching both these pitchers actually pitch that Eovaldi is capable of getting hitters out at a better rate than Koehler. Koehler relies WAY too much on fly ball outs and any kind of out that is made on hard contact. If you are going to survive long term pitching the way Koehler does, he needs to be consistent in his ball placement. While I do like the idea of Koehler as our #5 pitcher next season, calling him better than Eovaldi is absolutely ridiculous. His season was fueled by a very luck based start, and while he improved as a pitcher from what he used to be and settled in at the end of last season, there's a very high likelihood he isn't going to be a mid to high 3 ERA guy next season given how to goes about his business.

 

 

Koehler is 4 years older than Eovaldi too

Because obviously Eovaldi's body of work is much greater and more impactful than Koehler's in the majors. It's like the Tigers wouldn't be jumping to replace Justin Verlander with Aaron Harang (let me preface this by stating the obvious. NO, I am not saying Verlander and Eovaldi are equal pitchers). On the surface Harang had a better ERA and on basic counting stats had a better season than Verlander, but are you seriously going to convince yourself that Harang is again going to have a better statistical season than Verlander because it happened in one player's career year and another player's career down year?

 

You basically are trying to make the point that Koehler is better than Eovaldi based on numbers produced in Koehler's best season ever and Eovaldi's worst. It is quite obvious to those following the team day in and day out, watching both these pitchers actually pitch that Eovaldi is capable of getting hitters out at a better rate than Koehler. Koehler relies WAY too much on fly ball outs and any kind of out that is made on hard contact. If you are going to survive long term pitching the way Koehler does, he needs to be consistent in his ball placement. While I do like the idea of Koehler as our #5 pitcher next season, calling him better than Eovaldi is absolutely ridiculous. His season was fueled by a very luck based start, and while he improved as a pitcher from what he used to be and settled in at the end of last season, there's a very high likelihood he isn't going to be a mid to high 3 ERA guy next season given how to goes about his business.

 

 

Eovaldi's body of work?

 

Total Innings: 460

 

Career ERA: 4.07

 

Career GB%: 44.5

 

Career K/9: 6.28

 

Career WHIP: 1.38

 

Koehler's body of work

 

Total Innings: 347.2

 

Career ERA: 4.12

 

Career GB%: 44.3

 

Career K/9: 6.68

 

Career WHIP: 1.32

 

I'm not taking one good season and comparing it to one bad one. That's their careers, both of which started in 2012, so that's a completely level playing field and that's literally their "whole body of work".

 

First, Eovaldi is not "capable of getting hitters out at a better rate" based on their career WHIP. And Eovaldi is not really any better at getting ground ball outs, either, considering their GB% is almost identical.

 

I never said Koehler was "better than Eovaldi" (I said he was better this year), but based on the numbers above, if I did say that, it would not be "absolutely ridiculous". Instead, it looks to me like over the last 3 years they're basically the same flyball, hard contact pitcher you described. Except Koehler is taking steps forward and Eovaldi is going backward considering the most relevant season is 2014.

 

 

Koehler is 4 years older than Eovaldi too

 

 

This is true. And obviously this fact tells us he absolutely has a much higher ceiling, which makes him much more valuable than Koehler. It all depends on how the Marlins feel about Eovaldi internally, because considering service time if they don't believe he's going to be more than a #4-5 within the next 2 years, it's time to move him while he's still valuable. He certainly could become that frontline arm by his age 27 season, where with Koehler we know what he is at 27. But along that journey, is he going to be better than Koehler? If so, will he be much better? Because a 27 year old Eovaldi is irrelevant to the Marlins; for better or worse he will not be here by then. His ceiling is only relevant to us if he is going to get there by 2016.

 

 

Eovaldi's body of work?

 

Total Innings: 460

Career ERA: 4.07

Career GB%: 44.5

Career K/9: 6.28

Career WHIP: 1.38

 

Koehler's body of work

 

Total Innings: 347.2

Career ERA: 4.12

Career GB%: 44.3

Career K/9: 6.68

Career WHIP: 1.32

 

I'm not taking one good season and comparing it to one bad one. That's their careers, both of which started in 2012, so that's a completely level playing field and that's literally their "whole body of work".

 

First, Eovaldi is not "capable of getting hitters out at a better rate" based on their career WHIP. And Eovaldi is not really any better at getting ground ball outs, either, considering their GB% is almost identical.

 

I never said Koehler was "better than Eovaldi" (I said he was better this year), but based on the numbers above, if I did say that, it would not be "absolutely ridiculous". Instead, it looks to me like over the last 3 years they're basically the same flyball, hard contact pitcher you described. Except Koehler is taking steps forward and Eovaldi is going backward considering the most relevant season is 2014.

 

 

 

This is true. And obviously this fact tells us he absolutely has a much higher ceiling, which makes him much more valuable than Koehler. It all depends on how the Marlins feel about Eovaldi internally, because considering service time if they don't believe he's going to be more than a #4-5 within the next 2 years, it's time to move him while he's still valuable. He certainly could become that frontline arm by his age 27 season, where with Koehler we know what he is at 27. But along that journey, is he going to be better than Koehler? If so, will he be much better? Because a 27 year old Eovaldi is irrelevant to the Marlins; for better or worse he will not be here by then. His ceiling is only relevant to us if he is going to get there by 2016.

 

 

 

Is this your argument?

 

It's invalid.

Is this your argument?

 

It's invalid.

 

 

 

Lel

Just created a bot for this forum to reply to all of wildcards posts with either a facepalm Godzilla or a response completely dismissing him. This will save everyone time.

 

Can you make it to where, after every 18th post, it says something good about him?

 

Like, "good job getting wild blue" or something?

 

 

Yes, let's just dismiss the numbers because I'm the one that posted them.

 

In fact, they must have been fictitious since Wild Card posted them. Yea, that's it! He made them up to make Koehler and Eovaldi APPEAR to be similar pitchers.

When people support Hech, others reply with numbers to prove he is terrible.

 

When Wildcard produces numbers to equate Eovaldi and Koehler, he is laughed at.

 

I know I am just a dumb Brit, but I don't get it.

 

 

See, I'm in the group that says Wild Card has potential and he shows it every so often. I was actually very surprised to see how similar the Koehler/Eovaldi numbers are. Eovaldi has better overall stuff, and he has a lot more innings, but mostly because Koehler can't seem to get past the sixth safely. That cost us a few games, too.

 

He put his time and effort into this, and personally I'm not going to just throw it out because he's the one that posted it. It was well constructed, and I'm fine with saying that he's got a point. They are rather similar in numbers.

 

Nate just has the edge, IMO, because he has the "stuff" and is 4 years younger, thus he has more time to improve.

 

 

When people support Hech, others reply with numbers to prove he is terrible.

 

When Wildcard produces numbers to equate Eovaldi and Koehler, he is laughed at.

 

I know I am just a dumb Brit, but I don't get it.

 

 

Stop sniggering, you racist twat!

 

 

See, I'm in the group that says Wild Card has potential and he shows it every so often. I was actually very surprised to see how similar the Koehler/Eovaldi numbers are. Eovaldi has better overall stuff, and he has a lot more innings, but mostly because Koehler can't seem to get past the sixth safely. That cost us a few games, too.

 

He put his time and effort into this, and personally I'm not going to just throw it out because he's the one that posted it. It was well constructed, and I'm fine with saying that he's got a point. They are rather similar in numbers.

 

Nate just has the edge, IMO, because he has the "stuff" and is 4 years younger, thus he has more time to improve.

 

 

I agree with Bender which means I sort of agree with WC. ugh.

 

 

You know you like it.

Yes, let's just dismiss the numbers because I'm the one that posted them.

 

In fact, they must have been fictitious since Wild Card posted them. Yea, that's it! He made them up to make Koehler and Eovaldi APPEAR to be similar pitchers.

 

 

 

You're starting to understand.

I just don't understand. Numbers are numbers, stats are stats and facts are facts people!!!!! Lay off Wild Card and find someone else to pick on, like Loria.. he just sucks. It was pretty shocking to see the similarities in Koehler and Eovaldi at the season's close. Is it just because Wild Card said it that everyone attacks it? Maybe I'm missing something..

 

I live with the guy. I bicker with him more than anyone and know how "out of left field" some of his thoughts are but debating facts is just retarded.

 

 

I just don't understand. Numbers are numbers, stats are stats and facts are facts people!!!!! Lay off Wild Card and find someone else to pick on, like Loria.. he just sucks. It was pretty shocking to see the similarities in Koehler and Eovaldi at the season's close. Is it just because Wild Card said it that everyone attacks it? Maybe I'm missing something..

 

I live with the guy. I bicker with him more than anyone and know how "out of left field" some of his thoughts are but debating facts is just retarded.

 

 

 

No.

 

You can lie with numbers.

See, I'm in the group that says Wild Card has potential and he shows it every so often. I was actually very surprised to see how similar the Koehler/Eovaldi numbers are. Eovaldi has better overall stuff, and he has a lot more innings, but mostly because Koehler can't seem to get past the sixth safely. That cost us a few games, too.

 

He put his time and effort into this, and personally I'm not going to just throw it out because he's the one that posted it. It was well constructed, and I'm fine with saying that he's got a point. They are rather similar in numbers.

 

Nate just has the edge, IMO, because he has the "stuff" and is 4 years younger, thus he has more time to improve.

 

 

This, 100%, and that's kind of my point. Koehler is already 27, we know he's a solid #4/5 starter and that's all he ever will be. He's like our new Ricky Nolasco. This makes him less valuable to other teams via trade, but due to his service time and minimum salary, he is valuable to the Marlins.

 

With Eovaldi, for now he's the same solid #4/5 guy. However, he's so much younger and has such good stuff, he certainly could reach that ceiling we project for him by the time he's Koehler's age. The BIG problem with that is he won't be here for us to enjoy it, no matter what. So if the Marlins are not VERY confident he can reach that potential soon, history says they should deal him or they risk losing that big time trade value.

 

Honestly, I would be content either way. Keep him, I'm OK with that, he solidifies the back of the rotation with TK next year with breakout potential. Deal him and he helps us legitimately fill a hole in the infield or something and hopefully Heaney steps up next year. That's exactly the way they leverage him to get back top dollar, too. "We love this guy, we're willing to be patient with him... but if you make a great offer we will listen". We'll see.

 

 

Tom Koehler is 28.

 

 

Also Eovaldi's more than a #5. F*ck last season he's still got #2 or 3 stuff written all over him.