Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Yep, Jeter is a wonderful human being. This how you treat your MVP who has a NTC that he negotiated in his contract in good faith. This is the guy I want running the show. Not to mention that being a Marlin for the next ten years was supposed to be a threat? I guess we know Jeter's vision on his rebuild. Also, there's an opt out clause so the threat was stupid to begin with! #FuckJeter #noclass #douchebag #moreofthesame #stillacircus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Yep, Jeter is a wonderful human being. This how you treat your MVP who has a NTC that he negotiated in his contract in good faith. This is the guy I want running the show. Not to mention that being a Marlin for the next ten years was supposed to be a threat? I guess we know Jeter's vision on his rebuild. Also, there's an opt out clause so the threat was stupid to begin with! #FuckJeter #noclass #douchebag #moreofthesame #stillacircus you are analyzing everything with regards to this deal emotionally and therefore you cant see how off base you are on just about everything youve said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 So move on to another team. Nope. It's my prerogative to cheer for whomever I want in the way that I want. I just won't be a blind ass fan any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Nope. It's my prerogative to cheer for whomever I want in the way that I want. I just won't be a blind ass fan any longer. youre the opposite of a blind fan, youre emotional to the point of not understanding the reality of the situation at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 you are analyzing everything with regards to this deal emotionally and therefore you cant see how off base you are on just about everything youve said. At least I'm consistent in what I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 youre the opposite of a blind fan, youre emotional to the point of not understanding the reality of the situation at all. You're too busy worshiping Jeter to see all of the red flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 At least I'm consistent in what I say. consistently irrational. You're giving jeter shit for saying that if you dont help us out and waive it for the Giants or cardinals then we would just keep him for the rest of his contract. He was trying to gain any bit of leverage in a situation in which he had very little. Clearly they thought they had better offers from the Giants and Cardinals and were hoping to pressure him into taking a deal there because they knew he didnt want to rebuild which we had already communicated to him that we are going to do. That's not treating the mvp terribly, thats both sides trying to gain leverage and do the best for each side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 You're too busy worshiping Jeter to see all of the red flags. im not worshipping jeter, im giving him more than 3 moves and 2 press conferences to implement his plan before i jump all over him for making moves the previous ownership essentially forced him into making. Every single owner would have blown this team up because it is the only way to get finances under control and this team was nowhere near any viable path to contention anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Scott MillerVerified account @ScottMillerBbl 7m7 minutes ago More Stanton said that when he met with Derek Jeter he basically pleaded to get some pitching & keep everyday lineup together. "I thought our lineup was legit." But it was clear Marlins were going to subtract, not add. At that point, Stanton wanted out. Stanton is just as irrational as the rest of the fans. Our lineup was alright, but does anyone think our lineup was anywhere near top 5 in the league? We had career years from Ozuna and Stanton and Realmuto and very few injuries and im pretty sure we were not top 10 in any single offensive category. Just adding pitching is also not just something that you can do without continuing to add to how much money this team is losing or without losing a bat like Ozuna to add said pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 The guy demanded to be traded. Jeter worked out trades with 2 clubs. Telling Stanton to accept the trades or accept staying is perfectly rational and fair. He didn't demand a trade. He said it himself that he wanted a way forward with the Marlins. When they said rebuild he refused to be a part of it. That's a little different. Also, why bother working out trades with teams that weren't on his list? Again, he gave a list of 4 teams in good faith. Why threaten him? It makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 He didn't demand a trade. He said it himself that he wanted a way forward with the Marlins. When they said rebuild he refused to be a part of it. That's a little different. Also, why bother working out trades with teams that weren't on his list? Again, he gave a list of 4 teams in good faith. Why threaten him? It makes no sense. To gain leverage. The teams on his list werent offering anything of value at the time. He admitted he doesnt want to be part of a rebuild. Marlins were trying to get him to accept a deal to a team offering better deals than they thought were available with the teams on his list. And btw, refusing to be part of a rebuild when the only logical thing for the team to do is rebuild and the team has told him that they will be rebuilding is essentially demanding a trade without formally demanding a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Stanton is just as irrational as the rest of the fans. Our lineup was alright, but does anyone think our lineup was anywhere near top 5 in the league? We had career years from Ozuna and Stanton and Realmuto and very few injuries and im pretty sure we were not top 10 in any single offensive category. Just adding pitching is also not just something that you can do without continuing to add to how much money this team is losing or without losing a bat like Ozuna to add said pitching. Yes, you are the only rational person. Stanton is cluless also. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Yes, you are the only rational person. Stanton is cluless also. Got it. Here are the facts. This team was 11th in the league in scoring runs. 10th in OBP. 14th in slugging. That is with career years and no injuries from our top 5 hitters. Our lineup was solid, our lineup was not spectacular. We didnt have a great lineup and are an injury away at all times from being fucked because we have nothing in the way of minor league talent to come up and help out for a month when someone goes down. We also have no way of acquiring pitching without trading from that lineup (which would make our lineup worse) or signing 2 top pitchers (which isnt at all realistic). So yes, if Stanton is saying that we had an incredible lineup and just needed to add pitching he is irrational, which is normal for someone involved in the situation, but irrational nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Also, people do realize that as recently as like April we were discussing how fucked we were because of Stanton's contract and the fact that he wasnt playing to that contract's standards and had never made it through a season without being injured right? We might not have gotten MVP value, but gettng out from under that contract was the right thing to do given the moves loria has made the last 5 years to put us in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 You really did it this time guys, you have @fish20 and I on the same team and in agreement. I might have to change my opinion if this is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 To gain leverage. The teams on his list werent offering anything of value at the time. He admitted he doesnt want to be part of a rebuild. Marlins were trying to get him to accept a deal to a team offering better deals than they thought were available with the teams on his list. And btw, refusing to be part of a rebuild when the only logical thing for the team to do is rebuild and the team has told him that they will be rebuilding is essentially demanding a trade without formally demanding a trade. Trying to pigeon hole someone is not gaining leverage. It's building bad faith. Also, the only reason to use SF and STL is to try and use Giancarlo as a scapegoat. So, leverage means treating your MVP like shit and using two franchises to frame him. Jeter is building good faith everywhere. Good luck trying to trade with SF and STL going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 You really did it this time guys, you have @fish20 and I on the same team and in agreement. Maybe your reading comprehension skills improved. LOL Don't worry, the minute he realizes he was wrong he would have been on this side of the argument all along. Just wait for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Trying to pigeon hole someone is not gaining leverage. It's building bad faith. Also, the only reason to use SF and STL is to try and use Giancarlo as a scapegoat. So, leverage means treating your MVP like shit and using two franchises to frame him. Jeter is building good faith everywhere. Good luck trying to trade with SF and STL going forward. none of what you just said is accurate. No one is using those franchises as a scapegoat. They had deals with both of those teams that they liked more than the yankees deal. Stanton didnt accept them, but how could it hurt the marlins to try and get him to accept deals that they liked better? No one treated the MVP like shit nor did they use 2 franchises to frame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 none of what you just said is accurate. No one is using those franchises as a scapegoat. They had deals with both of those teams that they liked more than the yankees deal. Stanton didnt accept them, but how could it hurt the marlins to try and get him to accept deals that they liked better? No one treated the MVP like shit nor did they use 2 franchises to frame him. They knew there was no way he was going to go to those places so why waste their time and effort? Why waste the Giants and Cardinals time and effort? It was all a con. https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/940309351872548864 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 They new there was no way he was going to go to those places so why waste their time and effort? Why waste the Giants and Cardinals time and effort? It was all a con. https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/940309351872548864 They didnt know that. And it doesnt hurt to have other deals out there because if not the yankees are the only team negotiating and have no incentive to up their offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beinfest Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Ignoring the endless list of criticisms that have been stated about Jeter & Co. already... Doea *nobody* think their naive approach of "tear it down if you build it, they will come" is nothing more than the SAME exact thing the prior ownership implemented? It's the firesales that hurt fan confidence in the first place and make this method a bad idea. The team will continue to hemmorage money. The better approach was probably someone willing to take losses by shedding salaries on the outside of the core and within the organization and building fan confidence. In that mode, if you build it, they will come. Jeter/Sherman have the blessing of being able to blame their predecessors, but in fact they are no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYmarlins Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Trying to pigeon hole someone is not gaining leverage. It's building bad faith. Also, the only reason to use SF and STL is to try and use Giancarlo as a scapegoat. So, leverage means treating your MVP like shit and using two franchises to frame him. Jeter is building good faith everywhere. Good luck trying to trade with SF and STL going forward. Pretty sure Cardinals and Giants would like to acquire Yelich or Ozuna. Definitely the Cardinals would. There really is no winning this argument because each side will have their opinions on this matter. The fact is that he is gone and the page has turned. Yes, more losing seasons on the horizon. Yes, the team was poorly run and right now it is just too early to see the complete outcome. We lost the MVP. But besides 2014 with the freak accident he was getting hurt every season. If there was ever a time to get someone to pick up that contract, now was the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYmarlins Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 The better approach was probably someone willing to take losses by shedding salaries on the outside of the core and within the organization and building fan confidence. In that mode, if you build it, they will come. What contracts are you referring to? They are taking a loss no matter what right now. I agree this ownership financially is not in a good position right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Ignoring the endless list of criticisms that have been stated about Jeter & Co. already... Doea *nobody* think their naive approach of "tear it down if you build it, they will come" is nothing more than the SAME exact thing the prior ownership implemented? It's the firesales that hurt fan confidence in the first place and make this method a bad idea. The team will continue to hemmorage money. The better approach was probably someone willing to take losses by shedding salaries on the outside of the core and within the organization and building fan confidence. In that mode, if you build it, they will come. Jeter/Sherman have the blessing of being able to blame their predecessors, but in fact they are no different. Thats not accurate to say as of this time. I will join your side if they, like Loria, refuse to invest in IFA and the draft, but until then, you cant say that starting to rebuild the way just about every winning team does is the wrong thing simply because their predecessors did something similar to that. The problem with Loria was not that he traded stars for prospects, it's that that is all he did and he didnt supplement those stars we ended up getting in trades like the Beckett trade with spending in the draft and IFA. How many times did we go down to the exact last second with first round picks over minor sums of money? So im not gonna say they arent like Loria, but until they show that they refuse to spend on the minor leagues, you cannot fairly say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 They didnt know that. And it doesnt hurt to have other deals out there because if not the yankees are the only team negotiating and have no incentive to up their offer. Of course they knew that. They weren't on the list he gave them. Pretending to have leverage doesn't give you leverage. Do you think the Yankees or Cashman are stupid? Fish20 can see that STL and SF were a mere ploy to gain leverage but the Yankees somehow can't? LoL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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