October 10, 20187 yr Just a thought. The pool money is the total amount they can spend. If the team wants all 3 guys splitting $6 million on 3 guys wouldn't win out if Baltimore wants just one guy. So it becomes tricky. For example we may have a plan in mind to get all 3 but if Baltimore tells Victor Victor that he can have their entire 6.7 million pool we could be fucked.
October 10, 20187 yr Just a thought. The pool money is the total amount they can spend. If the team wants all 3 guys splitting $6 million on 3 guys wouldn't win out if Baltimore wants just one guy. So it becomes tricky. For example we may have a plan in mind to get all 3 but if Baltimore tells Victor Victor that he can have their entire 6.7 million pool we could be fucked. Well reportedly the Mesas are a package deal.
October 10, 20187 yr https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-the-mesa-gaston-workout/ Victor Victor Mesa, 22, looks to have retained the sort of physicality he possessed the last several years in Cuba. He ran his 60-yard dash in about 6.5 seconds (give or take a few hundredths of a second, depending on the stopwatch), which is in the 65-70 range on the 20-80 scale, and he’s a 60 runner in games as he was in the past, while his arm remains above average. Mesa hit some balls out to his pull side during batting practice, showing 50-grade raw power, but he has a linear, contact-oriented swing that we think will lead to below-average power output in games. There’s no question he can hit, defend, and add value on the bases, but there’s real doubt about the game application of his power. In aggregate, it looks like an average to slightly below-average offensive profile on an above-average defender at a premium position. Scouts think Mesa is a low-risk, moderate impact prospect who should be ready for the big leagues relatively soon. He garners frequent comparisons to Cubs CF Albert Almora. There’s a chance Mesa has a three-win season or two at peak, but expectations are more of a solid 1.5- to 2.0-win type player. He’s a 45+ FV on our July 2nd version of THE BOARD, which would be somewhere in the 130 to 175 range overall in the minors. Mesa’s talent would typically be valued between $5 million and $10 million (depending on market conditions when he became a free agent) in the prior, non-pooled international environment, and that would come with a matching tax for exceeding pool limitations, so call it about $15 million in a total outlay. That kind of money isn’t available on the July 2 market anymore. The lack of comparable talents still available at this point, however, could help Mesa earn a larger bonus than Shohei Ohtani ($2.3 mil) did last year, even though Mesa isn’t nearly as talented, because everyone with money left wants to land him. We consider the Marlins the favorites to do so.
October 10, 20187 yr https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-the-mesa-gaston-workout/ Cuban righty Sandy Gaston, just 16, ranked 20th on our July 2nd board as the lowest 40 FV, and he was the clear second-most interesting prospect at the event. Kiley saw him in February when he topped out at 97 mph and flashed an average curve and change, but Gaston also sent four balls to the backstop in a one-inning showcase against other 16-year-olds. Last Friday, Gaston worked 94-97 with similar secondary stuff, but with better feel, particularly in his first inning. There’s still a reliever look to him due to his delivery and mature physicality, but at age 16, so much will change that you can’t project that with certainty at this point, and Gaston has one of the most talented pure arms in the world at his age. There generally is not a market for $2-plus million bonuses for 16-year-old pitchers, as teams tend to spend more on hitters. The track record of flame-throwing teenagers is not good. We consider Gaston to be a seven-figure talent but think many teams probably have him valued a bit lower than that because of the risk associated with his demographic. New Phillies RHP Starlyn Castillo is pretty similar to Gaston (we ranked Castillo 18th in the most recent July 2nd class) and he got $1.5 million, which is close to where we think Gaston’s bonus will be if teams engage in a bidding war for him after Mesa signs. Gaston was rumored to have a deal for that much or more with the Marlins around July 2nd, but it never materialized. Victor Mesa, Jr. ran his 60-yard dash in the 6.9 second, which is average. He also showed a 55 arm and a linear swing geared more for contact. He’s 17, so there’s still room to project improvement based on maturing physicality, but he’s currently a tweener with hit and throw being his only above-average tools — and some scouts lower than that on the hit tool. On talent, we think he fits in the low, six-figure range.
October 10, 20187 yr i guess the marlins think his power will translate. The team already has a translator so why wouldn't it?
October 10, 20187 yr This fangraphs writeup has bridled enthusiasm to say the least. That coupled with the fact that we aren’t seeing much competition from the better teams in the league don’t do much to make me feel like we should have enormous expectations for these guys. Is this a response to Jeter saying “quick get me some Cubans”? A 1.5 to 2 win player that compares to Albert Almora is fine but not something to consider a cornerstone
October 10, 20187 yr Just a thought. The pool money is the total amount they can spend. If the team wants all 3 guys splitting $6 million on 3 guys wouldn't win out if Baltimore wants just one guy. So it becomes tricky. For example we may have a plan in mind to get all 3 but if Baltimore tells Victor Victor that he can have their entire 6.7 million pool we could be fucked. Just sign the dad as a coach and give him a really nice salary *wink* *wink*
October 10, 20187 yr This fangraphs writeup has bridled enthusiasm to say the least. That coupled with the fact that we aren’t seeing much competition from the better teams in the league don’t do much to make me feel like we should have enormous expectations for these guys. Is this a response to Jeter saying “quick get me some Cubans”? A 1.5 to 2 win player that compares to Albert Almora is fine but not something to consider a cornerstone Most of the "better teams" are limited on what they can spend, so are out on them before it began.
October 10, 20187 yr This fangraphs writeup has bridled enthusiasm to say the least. That coupled with the fact that we aren’t seeing much competition from the better teams in the league don’t do much to make me feel like we should have enormous expectations for these guys. Is this a response to Jeter saying “quick get me some Cubans”? A 1.5 to 2 win player that compares to Albert Almora is fine but not something to consider a cornerstone The big question mark, and honestly the reason his ceiling is so low, is because of the thought that he won't be able to hit for power.
October 10, 20187 yr Just sign the dad as a coach and give him a really nice salary *wink* *wink* $69,420 every year? That's about as nice as it gets without being too ridiculous.
October 10, 20187 yr This fangraphs writeup has bridled enthusiasm to say the least. That coupled with the fact that we aren’t seeing much competition from the better teams in the league don’t do much to make me feel like we should have enormous expectations for these guys. Is this a response to Jeter saying “quick get me some Cubans”? A 1.5 to 2 win player that compares to Albert Almora is fine but not something to consider a cornerstone I'm not too worried about the lack of other teams because this is almost entirely about having pool money. Its not that the other teams don't want then it's that they can't afford them so they're on a "why bother" mindset. At the same time yes part of this is Jeter trying to attract the Cuban community. We should be very proud and excited if they can sign all 3 of these guys because they would boost our farm system and show the aggressive approach of the front office and there is no negative towards getting them BUT we should also understand that nobody is claiming that these guys are can't miss future Hall of Famers. These guys are just the best available right now at a point where the Marlins are trying to be more aggressive in getting international free agents and it's a plus that they're from Cuba.
October 10, 20187 yr Definition of selling low This fangraphs writeup has bridled enthusiasm to say the least. That coupled with the fact that we aren’t seeing much competition from the better teams in the league don’t do much to make me feel like we should have enormous expectations for these guys. Is this a response to Jeter saying “quick get me some Cubans”? A 1.5 to 2 win player that compares to Albert Almora is fine but not something to consider a cornerstone Not that they're bad prospects, but we wouldn't make the effort to sign them if they weren't Cuban.
October 10, 20187 yr Original complaint from some: The Marlins should be more active in the international market Current complaint from those people as the Marlins try to sign the top international prospect available: The Marlins are wrong to acquire pool money to be more active because they are trading away assets and the guys the want to sign have no future anyway. Keep moving those goalposts. If they weren't trying for Mesa, we'd be hearing how its more proof of the fish being cheap and a big missed opportunity.
October 10, 20187 yr Original complaint from some: The Marlins should be more active in the international market Current complaint from those people as the Marlins try to sign the top international prospect available: The Marlins are wrong to acquire pool money to be more active because they are trading away assets and the guys the want to sign have no future anyway. Keep moving those goalposts. If they weren't trying for Mesa, we'd be hearing how its more proof of the fish being cheap and a big missed opportunity. Perhaps but signing just for the sake of signing isn’t good either. Remember last winter we didn’t want a FA SP for the sake of spending
October 10, 20187 yr IFA $ must be spent on IFAs so this isnt "for the sake of signing." Use this money to get the best possible IFA but if not it's not like this money can be allocated elsewhere so why not go for it? If I give you a gift card to buy shoes would you not use it because you'd rather buy a shirt?
October 10, 20187 yr Original complaint from some: The Marlins should be more active in the international market Current complaint from those people as the Marlins try to sign the top international prospect available: The Marlins are wrong to acquire pool money to be more active because they are trading away assets and the guys the want to sign have no future anyway. Keep moving those goalposts. If they weren't trying for Mesa, we'd be hearing how its more proof of the fish being cheap and a big missed opportunity. We sold low on Barraclough, I'm not sure how that's arguable.
October 10, 20187 yr Original complaint from some: The Marlins should be more active in the international market Current complaint from those people as the Marlins try to sign the top international prospect available: The Marlins are wrong to acquire pool money to be more active because they are trading away assets and the guys the want to sign have no future anyway. Keep moving those goalposts. If they weren't trying for Mesa, we'd be hearing how its more proof of the fish being cheap and a big missed opportunity. to my associate @EricOwens! point, they sold as low as possible on claw and it'd prob be pretty pitiful to see the offers they turned down for him in July of 2018
October 10, 20187 yr IFA $ must be spent on IFAs so this isnt "for the sake of signing." Use this money to get the best possible IFA but if not it's not like this money can be allocated elsewhere so why not go for it? If I give you a gift card to buy shoes would you not use it because you'd rather buy a shirt? I'm on board with you, but that's not the best example, as someone else won't be paying for what the Marlins spend internationally, the Marlins will be. A better example would be you having a coupon to that clothing store, but the coupon only applies to shoes, but you need a suit. do you spend your money on shoes, or do you buy a shirt instead (regular FA, draft, etc)? Since you can’t afford the full suit yet, and you only have so much to spend.
October 10, 20187 yr We sold low on Barraclough, I'm not sure how that's arguable. to my associate @EricOwens! point, they sold as low as possible on claw and it'd prob be pretty pitiful to see the offers they turned down for him in July of 2018 Jack's point has nothing to do with Barraclough. Its obvious he was sold low. His point is how the Marlins are finally making a strong push into getting the top IFA and people are complaining.
October 10, 20187 yr Jack's point has nothing to do with Barraclough. Its obvious he was sold low. His point is how the Marlins are finally making a strong push into getting the top IFA and people are complaining. both things are be true m8 - it's good they're going after IFA and they still suck at making trades
October 10, 20187 yr IFA $ must be spent on IFAs so this isnt "for the sake of signing." Use this money to get the best possible IFA but if not it's not like this money can be allocated elsewhere so why not go for it? If I give you a gift card to buy shoes would you not use it because you'd rather buy a shirt? I guess I’m just noticing that it isn’t just pool money but also we are now loading up the pool by moving assets so it is coming at some additional cost. But you’re right we should be happy they’re going after the top target. I’d also like to see us continue to be aggressive in this market and not have this be a one off situation. If we consistently go hard after the top IFA then I’m happy
October 10, 20187 yr both things are be true m8 - it's good they're going after IFA and they still suck at making trades When did Jack ever say anything about selling low on Barraclough though? Someone speaks of one thing and you go an mention something else.
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