cobaincola

Another cheap option could be a Derek Lowe. Me thinks he would strive with our defense (SEE: Pavano) and after the rough season he had this year might not make too much. And yes, Spooney's surgery I believe was last August. But he should be healthy in time for ST. 582089[/snapback] Lowe for no more than 2 million and strictly out of the pen, I personally think he sucks large donkey nads as a starter...

my team was the braves because that was the only team we could watch down here then the marlins came in 93 and ive been a fan ever since 584337[/snapback] I was 22 - 11 = 11 years old in 93 so that kind of worked out for me, baseball cards were in then and when the Marlins finally came out I was just old enough to really appreciate it. Too young to really like anyone else although I was somewhat of a Giants fan because I felt that Bonds was one of the most under-rated players of the era and I felt he got a bad rep...now I can't detest the guy anymore.... Anyhow for those former Braves fan, do you still like the Braves? I'd imagine you couldn't have thrown them out the window.

Needed a way to hide the fact that I really am a Mets fan. 584291[/snapback] LMAO

forget Drew imo, he isnt healthy enough for the gamble 582733[/snapback] and magglio is? In my opinion Magglio would be more of a risk than Drew. Beltran would be out of our price range, as probably Delgado would, and Drew is an upgrade over Delgado in every way imaginable. 583015[/snapback] I dont remember saying Magglio is 583090[/snapback] well, I covered all the big name free agents there. I was just saying that I feel Drew would be the best option. 583155[/snapback] Delgado doesn't have the injury streak, is a better power hitter and will be undervalued in the market because of his down year, Drew however will fetch top dollar. Delgado would also be one that would consider just a one year contract which is much more feasible considering the stability of this team. Plus power is about ten times more important than any other dimension a player brings to this team. All in all the Marlins had a solid average and obp at the end of the season the one spark that could immensely help this team is a big powerful bat.

OPS is value, it's over-rated when evaluating every player on the team blindly. I'd rather have Pierre batting leadoff than Burnitz. Ideally you want your middle of the lineup with high OPS and if you aren't the Yankees or Sox you can't always have that. Slugging is a very very expensive commodity and the reason Beane puts so much emphasis on OBP is because it's alot cheaper than SLG... What do you do for 6 - 8 hitters as a small-market team? You don't do what the Fish did this season and stack up players of the same mold and the same glaring weaknesses back to back to back in Gonzo, Encarnacion and Conine. Go after some cheap guy with a high OBP with modest power 10 - 14 homers and bat him second...then put Luis in 6th or 7th spot... You don't want to exacerbate players' weaknesses by putting them all together if they share one... Bring in Dellucci to bat after Luis... We have two leadoff hitters...it's hard to make it work...if Pierre and Luis weren't two of my faves I'd say trade one of them...

If people actually looked at Sosa's stats despite his injuires...he was on pace for 40 homers this season... If he's healthy which he hasn't been for the last two season (and yet he can still hit 40)....he is easily one of the best power hitters in the league and being as power is what this team needs and if the Cubs agreed to eat half of his salary HELL YEAH

Redmond and Willingham. Willingham would hopefully pick up 400-450 at bats between catcher and first base 581664[/snapback] That will not work out...i dont think the fish will go into next season without a quality catcher,remember what happened this year... 581686[/snapback] Redmond is a solid backup and Willingham has one of the few major league ready bats in the organization. Let's just say Redmond/Willingham put together a disapointing campaign and fail to combine for a .700 OPS, that's still about where Encarnacion was this year and I don't expect him to get much better recovering from surgery. Drew/Guillen is a ridiculously huge upgrade offensively over LoDuca. You can't let one Ramon Castro incident or a disappointing June/July (which had more to do with injuries to starting pitching than Redmond/Treanor) let you lose all sense of reality. Thanks to an injury-aided All-Star appearance and Jack starting him a ton, LoDuca will be severely overvalued. I'd much rather use than six to seven million on a much better bat. It has little to do with my despise of the trade, LoDuca or 'intangibles'. 581847[/snapback] I agree. Redmond has been an above average back-up catcher and as a small-market team we are going to have to entrust alot of our success to our prospects and right now I think that means giving Willingham the nod next season. Just think about how much we would save. Lo Duca is going to command 6 - 7 million, I don't think people really appreciate what we have to work with. It's not much at all. Assume you keep all the pieces together for next season, we are no where better offensively than we were this season and are more than likely worse off than last season. after the season terminates everyone on the team is one year older and the likelihood of winning with retaining our core of Cabrera, Beckett, Willis, Pavano is growing slimmer. If it weren't such a PR mistake I'd try to shop Conine around, nearly 5 million for him is insane. In order to compete next season we are going to have to gamble, we don't have the resources to not do so. Gamble wisely. Let Lo Duca go and bring in Drew, that is an enormous upgrade right there and would cost perhaps 2 or 3 million more season perhaps the difference in salaries between Clement and Pavano? The difference would be made up by just getting rid of Encarnacion. Pierre Castillo Drew Cabrera Lowell Palmeiro Aguila/Conine Gonzo Willingham Bench: Cordero, Dellucci, Easley, Redmond Clement, Beckett, Burnett, Willis, Valdez Spooney, Williamson, Mota, Howard, Saenz

He's injury was once a top pitcher..he's lost alot of his stuff then again he hasn't really been healthy all that long to get it back. (Tosses head) Then again not likely he'll get it back at this age, I would mind him as our 5th for one million, but anything more than that is no good. You also have to realize that you would be very optimitsic to think that Bump, Phelps, Kensing or Perisho could do all that much better and likelier than not they'd end up doing worse.

Fish Cy Young: Armando Benitez Fish Offensive Player of the Year: Miguel Cabrera Fish of the Year (MVP): Juan Pierre Most Improved Fish: Carl Pavano Comeback Fish of the Year: AJ Burnett Rookie Fish of the Year: Ehhh...too many to choose from in 03 to none now... Fish Play of the Year: Harris double off Gagne Fish Game of the Year: Benitez's save against the Phils, the best save I have ever seen Fish Gold Glove Winners: Castillo, Gonzo, and Lowell

I like Kensing, I wouldn't consider him an automatic L. 581900[/snapback] Perhaps not, has potential...but I wouldn't risk putting him in there at the start. Alot of arms out there, could probably get someone like Clement for cheap. But god stay away from Lowe...he was heard wanting a ten mil a year contract at the beginning of the season... Anything more than 2 million for that guy is a rip-off And on the Delgado note, he'd be awesome, and I think he would probably make a Pudge move because he dropped his value this season. He'll play a year then enter the market again and hope he gets a juicy long term deal... Beltran is going to be way too much, plus he'll make JP a defensive liability... I would really like to see Palmeiro here though, he'd be a draw and cheap and not any worse than Conine.

Starting Lineup: Carlos Beltran - CF Luis Castillo - 2B Chris Aguila - RF Juan Pierre - LF Miguel Cabrera - 3B Mike Redmond/Lo Duca - C Paul Lo duca / Travis Lee- 1B Alex Gonzalez - SS Starting Rotation: Logan Kensing AJ Burnett Josh Beckett Dontrelle Willis Derreck Lowe (or some low cost starter) Bullpen: Fox (if healthy) Mando Mota Spooney Perisho some straggler 581211[/snapback] Kensing and Lowe are automatic losses

Let me go with: Pierre Castillo Drew Cabrera Lowell Palmeiro Aguila/Conine Willingham Bench: Dellucci, Cordero, Easley, Harris Pitching: Clement Beckett Burnett Willis Valdez Pen: Spooney Williamson Mota Weathers Howard Saenz We go without Benitez, Lo Duca, Pavano, Encarnacion. We probably save 2 or 3 million a season with Clement. Clement and Drew are more or less the equivalent of retaining Pavano and Lo Duca. The additions of Palmeiro, Dellucci, and Williamson are probably a couple milllion less than Benitez and Encarnacion. Palmeiro is due 4 million this season, he will probably fetch between 1 and 2 million for a one year contract in the offseason, as well Dellucci more than likely. It's a little less than keeping our team this year but I don't know if that still falls out of the range...if a bat is too expensive then: Sad thing is we won't noticeably improve our offense unless we dish out some serious dough...no way around it

Ok. Let's kick this off right away as this will be talked about all offseason. Who do we keep, who do we let go? Who do we replace and with whom? Who are the targets? I am just going to throw this out there - the Carl Pavano Situation. I dont think we need to re-sign him. Call me crazy, but he is going to be commanding big time money. Some estimates right now are at $7-8M per year. As good as Carl has been for us this year and as solid as he has been, I dont think we can afford to re-sign him and dedicate such a large portion of our payroll to a guy who doesnt play everyday. Not right now. I would rather earmark that money for Beckett or Burnett down the road. Besides, there are cheaper alternatives available that could replace Pavano. For example, Matt Clement, I believe, is a free agent. We could sign him for cheaper than Pavano - and he has nastier stuff. Could be very productive here and would probably love to come back to be with this team (you never know). Currently making $6M. This is just a start of this debate. Basically, I think we could find someone to replace Pavs for cheaper and then use the 'extra' money to sign someone else at another position of importance. That is kind of what I would like to see talked about in this thread. 580265[/snapback] Great topic. There are a number of quality starters available this offseason, should Pavano sign elsewhere. Here is a quick list: Jaret Wright, Paul Wilson, Esteban Loaiza, Brad Radke, Odalis Perez, Matt Morris, Kris Benson, and Derek Lowe. 580320[/snapback] Offer him a three year deal for 21, if he rejects go after the rest staying away from Lowe... I wouldn't mind signing Morris cheap, would he come cheap? If that meant being able to make a run at top tier hitter...(after the departures of Lo Duca and Encarnacion and Benitez)

Palmeiro He still has some pop left, a great verteran leader, O's won't pick up his option for his next season so he will become a FA He could sign for peanuts...market isn't crazy for him right now, he just doesn't want to throw it in just yet He is better than Conine and more affordable, he'd be a great draw...it'd be an event to have him on the team when he retires following next season more likely Plus we can do that cool HR tracking thing as he climbs his way up :cool

Bump Encarnacion I would mind seeing Conine go terribly 580652[/snapback] *wouldn't despite the PR fallout..

Bump Encarnacion I would mind seeing Conine go terribly

My Cabrera Wish For Next Season: .340 50 HRS 140 RBIS 123 Runs 50 doubles 5 triples 0 GIDP's Position: 3B Fld. Pct.: 1.002 ( :lol ) Gold Glove, Batting Champion, HR Champion, RBI Champion, run Champion, couple a triple-crowns 579616[/snapback] Only 50 homers?

to lets say.. 70 million next year? That would put us about in the middle of the pack instead of the lower part of salaries.. Is there any way we can do this? 577538[/snapback] if winning a world series doesn't motivate an owner to increase payroll, i don't think anything will. 577639[/snapback] Well it's also sad that his team wins the WS and still loses money :plain 577662[/snapback] the concept of "losing money" is one of the most deceiving in all of sports. our owner (jeffrey loria) will inevitably sell the team for a price much higher than the price he paid. also, he already has a massive amount of public financing earmarked for a brand new baseball stadium for his franchise. for an owner of a sports team to claim that, in a given year, since his expenses exceed his revenues he is "losing money," is extremely deceitful. i don't care how you cut it, there's no excuse for not increasing payroll after winning a world series--particularly when you have a heavily publicly-funded stadium on the horizon. 577728[/snapback] Exactly, remember when Huizenga claimed to have lost 30 million the year the Fish won it all? However in Loria's case with the ridiculous lease on PPS I wouldn't be surprised if he did lose money. Huizenga should die a very painful death...

We are beating owned by the Phils... Seems like a fitting way to end this season

The problem isn't that our team can't hit.....they haven't hit well when it counts, with RISP. My bet is a change at hitting coach would be more productive than adding high priced bats. Starting pitching is what this team is built upon, and must remain a priority. Pavano should be willing to discuss deferred salary arrangements. Valdez has been effective as a 5th starter...and won't break the bank.....i.e. wont' cost anymore than Oliver who was a bust. I just hope the FO pays better attention to their bullpen this offseason. Re-signing Benitez is a priority...perhaps he is willing to take a mil or so less than he would get on the open market to stay here. 578160[/snapback] That's true but at the same time we are at the bottom with regard to homers and we will only get worse next season you expect 25 homers from Gonzo next season? As far as Ks, I don't really care about them so long as the hitter has alot of power and gets on base. Dunn's OBP is a nice .388 So who cares if he Ks?

Kid needs more control. 577273[/snapback] Heard that before about our pen...

Didn't know that :banghead Imagine Santana in the Fish rotation now... Oh well

I really think he'd take less to stay here. He's publicly said how greatful he is to the Marlins ownership for giving him his chance and he's also said how much he likes playing here.... How much does that really mean is yet to be seen, but I have faith he'll be a Marlin next year.... Besides, when we traded Penny, I'm sure it was with the intention of having more money to keep Pavano. We knew one of them was gonna be gone next year. The trade answered that question for me. 575975[/snapback] He has said he would prefer to say in South Florida than go anywhere else. So Pudge might have said the same thing, but Beinfest never really tried to keep Pudge. It's not even certain that they oferred the 21 million dollar contract. Pavano has all the reasons to stay here, he has good relations with Loria, his career made a dramatic turn for the better while in Florida and he might feel alot more comfortable about it continuing to suceed while he is in Florida, he won a Championship ring here and the Fish with him will continue to field a competitive team year in and year out. How much is this preference worth to him? I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him take a couple million less a year to stay here than go to New York.

McKeon would never be able to put Guillen in his place. But who knows maybe he can find a home here. Pudge wasn't liked in the Texas clubhouse. Few people liked Carl Everett before he came to Montreal. Bradley's doing well in LA. 574720[/snapback] I'm sure the Angels will move Guillen. But they could do alot better than get Enc for him...I'd assume they look into prospects not some very mediocre RFer that doesn't have the potential to be much more than that unless we paid half of Enc's salary. With that said it'd be risk the gamble and even with his 'attitude' problem he will have always carry value so it's not like he wouldn't be movable even after we got him.

If Lowell stays as a Fish, he will play 3rd base. If Cabs is moving to the infield while Lowell plays 3rd, he will be at 1st. If we keep Lowell, I would just leave it at status quo. Cabs on LF, Conine on 1B, and Lowell on 3B 574216[/snapback] Yeah, I agree. Conine's defense at first has been above average. All we need is a good left handed hitting right fielder. Everything else should stay the same. 574240[/snapback] ...I am not crazy about seeing Niner playing much next season.