cubangm

IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA 5 9 4 4 3 4 1 4. 28 I believe this is the 5th start in a row where he gets hit hard in AA. His last couple of starts in the major didn't go so well either. Can he possibily be hurt? or is he just struggling. Either way im not that high on him like I once was. Im hoping we trade A.J to the White Sox. Brandon McCharthy > Hayden Penn

I actually prefer the O's trade more than this one.

"QUESTIONS 1. Would we make a play on a SP or would we be comfortable with a rotation of 1. Willis (L), 2. Beckett, 3. Olsen (L), 4. Penn, 5. Vargas (L) 2. We'd still need power. Would Bigbie be our everyday LF next year and would we make a play for a SS (Nomar)? 3. Would we re-sign Gonzalez and make an offer for a good OF (Cliff Floyd, Trot Nixon, Jose Guillen, Sheffield.. or Mora at 3B/Cabs back in LF)?" 1.probably a cheap but good SP 2. bigbie would hopefully not be a starter and i doubt we would have a chance money wise to sign him 3. i'm sure they'll make an offer to gonzalez and hopefully he'll take it but if he doesn't we might call up Robert Andino or possibly get mora or floyd How will we get Mora and why would the front office ever want to get Floyd again.

What type of source? friend, insider?

Just to stir the pot a bit: According to a source of mine familiar with the negotiations, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal today. The team and the players that were involved, however, cannot be announced tonight (some say due to the concert Bronson Arroyo is holding). We'll see who is involved. I heard a rumor like that also. But if you got it from the ESPN message board like me I wouldn't lose sleep on it. I just hear Arroyo and I already like the Boston deal more than the O's deal.

Fishfan79 Posted Today, 05:44 PM There has to be something more in their minor leagues then we can go for. If you are going to take guys not major league ready? they must have some prospects. Really compared to this deal I would rather just take our chances with what we got now and grab our two draft picks for him. they have Markakis, Loewen, Maine, and Fortenino(something like that), Finch of the top of my head. If they replaced Bigbie with Maine or Loewen I'll be okay with the trade.

I agree with all your points, which leads me back to the real reason we're most likely going to take this deal...AJ, he's driving this deal How about Boston?

Hey guys. Just thought I'd chime in from Baltimore, here. Believe me when I say this trade proposal is scary on our side as well. Nobody really knows how Burnett and Lowell will transition to the AL. The O's have had some recent failures dealing with NL pitchers (Omar Daal, Mike DeJean, Steve Kline, etc.), so understandably, we're all a bit hesitant to see this happen. For all of you who haven't seen Hayden Penn, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. He's still just 20 years old, and really held his own during his brief audition with the big club this year. The league began to catch up with him second time around though, which is why he was sent back down. But really, he has great stuff (the changeup is probably his best pitch), and a tremendous amount of poise for someone so young. I was impressed with what I saw. The only downside is he probably won't help you this season. But down the road, I believe the O's could well regret trading him away, unless A.J. gives them good production in return. As for the rest, I have a feeling Kline would be OK coming back to the NL. Remember, he was one of the most dominant lefty relievers in the entire game last year. Bigbie, well, he's still got the "potential" tag. We've been waiting for him to bust out for a full season. He usually hits at a good clip in the second half. It's the first half that's the problem, when at times he looks absolutely lost at the plate. Julio would definitely be a project. He seems to have regressed each season, even though his stuff is electric and logic would dictate that he *should* be a great reliever. Time will tell with him. Ponson, if you guys get him, then I profusely apologize. The guy's a bum, pure and simple. One good season in 2003... a contract year (surprise!), and suddenly he reverts to below-mediocrity. And that's putting it nicely. Bottom line, the jem in this deal would definitely be Penn, whom I'd hate to see go. Everybody else is kind of a mystery. If this deal does happen, I'll be crossing my fingers for the both of us. Don't compare Burnett with the likes of Daal, Kline, Mike Dejean, etc. Compare Burnett to Matt Clement. The only 2 things I like about the trade is we save money if Lowell if included and not Ponson. Penn is the other but we have alot of guys like Penn in the minors already and he has gotten hit hard in his last 3 starts in AA including yesterday. Julio has potential but makes 2.5 million already and will likely get a raise to 3 next year after arbitration and will likely be just a set-up man at best. Bigbie will I think he just sucks and is the worst OF on your team. I rather have Williangham, Aguila, Dillion out there before him. On the downside you guys are getting Lowell and his contract.

It IS the only team who he'd sign with that has the three things Beinfest is looking for in return a young starter(Penn), bullpen help(Julio), and a cheap OFer(Bigbie). So YES its the only team, he'd give up his free agency for...remember his wife is playing an important part in this deal too. Here are the teams I've heard he'd sign with the O's, Red Sox, and Yankees thats better much it Red Sox package....???, I can tell you they have no bullpen arms, so there missing one piece to the puzzle Yankees- they aren't dealing no of there young talent(ditto for the Red Sox) so were back to the O's the Blue Jays have Arine thats it...yes AJ going to Toronto for Arine? no the White Sox aren't going to meet AJ contract demands with a couple of there own looking for a big pay day in the future. its ashame but technically AJ has a no trade clause I got to disagree with you on the Red Sox. They have bullpen arms in the minors there are close to ready like Meredith, and Declarman. They also can give us a a young OF like Murphy, or Moss. I'll take Bronson Arroyo, Manny Declarman, and Brandon Moss for Burnett I posted that on the ESPN Boston board and most fans said they will make this trade. I hope Beinfest just goes for talent and not insist on MLB ready players with little potential. Look what Dave Domborski did with Jeff Weaver and what the Mariners did with Freddy Garcia.

Im not happy about the deal but if we get Ponson instead of Penn I want Beinfest fired on the spot. I'll do Lowell for Kline just to get rid of salary. But Bigbie and Julio either suck or are overrated. Penn got hit hard today as well in AA I think this is the 3 straight start where hitters have touched him up. He's ERA is over 4 now at AA. I sure hope Boston or the White Sox step in and stop this from happening. This will also be the 2nd time the O's rape us in a trade during the Beinfest era. Only last time we won a championship. For that deal I rather just get draft picks for Burnett.

why would the reds want aj? That would have to be within a 3 team trade really and honestly. Plus Dunn is just a home run hitter in a home run hitters park. He would die within Joe Robbie. I like the white sox, blue jays deals best honestly. The pavano deal makes a bit of sense. Now do the white sox give us cash too? Contras has a large contract still from the yankees. So I would be worried about that. Actually the White Sox are on the hook for only 6 million of the 8 or 9 million Contreras will get next year and then he is a free agent. If anything we have to give them cash if Lowell is involved cause Lowell has 2 more years remaining at 8 million. I think Contreras can be a solid 3# in the NL and Dolphin Stadium will only help him out.

I think we can be alot better next year than this year. Especially if we get rid of Lowell, get something decent for Encarnacon like a Zach Day, and a solid package for Burnett.

IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA 6.0 11 5 5 1 5 2 3.74 He's been pitching better than this lately. Hopefully will get to see him at one point this year pitching for the Jupiter Hammerheads our High A ball affiliate.

I wouldn't go for Redman now or in the future. We already have 2 lefties in the rotation and Vargas in the minor's clsoe to MLB ready. It will also take Johnson and other prospects to get Redman. At this point im not sure trading prospects is a good idea especially with someone with no future with the ball club.

I want to thank CubanGm for introducing me to this site. Great information center, I'll use it often. Thanks. No problem anytime.

http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagent.html I'm not sure who the top FAs this year are and was wondering if anyone had a list. If we could pair Lowell's entire salary with AJ in a trade, I'm curious to see if there is an impact OF bat we could sign next year to get our offense going . I rather trade them seperatey though in order to maximize A.J Burnett trade value.

What harm? Well in what can be measured, the additional $150K that would be spent having his replacement join the big leagues. I agree completly about getting players as they're progressing to peak form, but it's not as if this is a move that has to be made. The on field impact is marginal at best. The immediate off-field impact and the rest of this season is questionable. I agree it doesn't have to be made. There are bigger problems than Leiter who is gone after this year. But he is one of them. Bigger problems IMO in order: 1)Jack McKeon 2)Hitting and Bill Robinson 3)Mike Lowell 4)A.J Burnett 5)Leiter

Why make any move? He's not harming the team from the mopup spot. Is this about taking the candy away from the manager, sending a sign to the other players or taking our vengence out on Leiter? Its more like he has no future with the club as a PLAYER and right now he's potential is just mop up. I personally rather someone who gives me hope and can put up better #'s. Also its not like fans go to the ball park to see Leiter get hammered everytime. And if we do release him whats the harm in that? what can he complain about? he has an ERA close to 7 its currently 6.64 and a I believe 1.85 W.H.I.P, and he has more walks than K's.

Since Leiter is just a mop up man which is basically a reliver why not bring up Mike Flannery or Kevin Cave from AA. I doubt either will ever be as good as Messenger or Resop but why not give them a call? we have nothing to lose and we might as well see what we have in the farm before we make any traae.

LHP Jason Vargas Although I don't think he's ready and don't want him rushed to the bigs I rather see Vargas out there than Leiter anyday of the week. Leiter is basically a 8 million washed up mop up pitcher. I'll be more confortable giving Vargas a call-up after the trade deadline. By that time he will have 2-3 more starts under his belt.

my opinion is that we need a hitter. With Lowell slumping we need another hitter, simple as that. If we get one who do we sit? that is currentyly starting?

Both Chris Resop and Randy Messenger pitched well. In fact they where the best pitchers we threw out there today. I continue to be impress by both. Chris Agula got atleast one at-bat I got a chance to see what he looked liked again and he got a hit. Finally and hopefully this performance sent a message to the FO that we need to be sellers and not wait until the last minute. Atleast I don't think they will pull of a stupid trade like Bazardo and Josh Johnson for Fuentes anymore which will hurt our future. Opinions???? Thoughts?????

Look, this team needs to remove the "cancerous" players that are nothing but whiners and complainers and have to absolutely move. The following player, in my estimation have to move becuase they are doing us more harm than good and contribute to a negative clubhouse environment: 1. A.J. Burnett (P) 2. Josh Beckett (P) 3. Guillermo Mota (P) 4. Tim Spooneybarger (P) Even though he has not pitched, he was not well liked in Atlanta becuase of his attitude. These players are not necessarrily bad players, but they are more worried about their paycheck than what the team needs to win. I don't think that this year we have what it take. I think that we should start to focus on what we need and retool for next year. I am not going to put up any mock trades, but it is apparent that some of these guys have to get out of here. I'll keep Spooneybarger the rest can go. Also Bump, Treanor, Leiter don't belong in the bigs. We might not have better options but I rather see guys out there with some potential some what. Example Leiter replace by Kevin Cave, Mike Flannery Bump replaced by same as Leiter. but I don't have that much of a problem with Bump cause atleast he pitches okay at times and doesn't make what Leiters makes.

Yep. He should never again put on a Marlins uniform. He is wasting a roster spot. Yes I have to agree. I think the only reason they are keeping him is that they want him around next year broadcasting, radio or some position in the organization. This guy doesn't belong in the major's and we have a couple of those guys on our roster.

I would rather send enc to the yanks and go after Griffey No way do we go after Griffey. He's contract is worse than Lowell and he is always getting hurt. We would have to give Cincy top prospects for them to cover a large portion of his salary. Can Lidge hit? Can he play the role of relief stopper? And isn't Arroyo eligible for arbitration? We could get so much more for the top starter on the market, but I suspect you're right in that we will need a three-team trade to receive pieces that could help us right now. I'll make that trade in half a second. Lidge is one of the top closers in baseball (top 5 IMO), and Bronson Arroyo is a solid starter. We would also have their rights for a couple of years. Im really worried that we might not get good value for Burnett especailly with that O's rumor I heard. Burnett, Encarnacion, Reed for Julio, Bigbie, Penn or Cabrera and supposely the O's turned us down. I'll want Beinfest fired if he makes this trade.