83Gator

8 mil per year for the next 6 years sounds reasonable to me. I think 6 years is too long. I wouldn't go longer than 4 years to anybody, 3 years if it's a pitcher.

Looper won't be back, Urbina will. Looper seems to have a grudge for Jack, and the front office. I know you want to be a newspaper columnist when you grow up Josh but you probably need to emulate somebody besides Jayson Blair.

It's voted on by managers and coaches. I'm pretty sure players don't vote. I'm also pretty sure that each manager/coach simply votes for the best at each position in their league. They don't have to list a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at each position. Because of that, you can end up with some really bizarre results for Gold Glove, like when Palmeiro won a couple of years ago. You can win a Gold Glove with 15% of the vote if the voting is split enough. Kinda like California elects governors.

I've always heard that more people than you'd imagine pay sticker price for a car, especially on luxury cars or trendy cars. Some of those will sell for over sticker. I have one word to describe those people: SUCKERS! This is going way off topic, but I just did a quick search and I'm surprised at the amount of people who expected to pay sticker for their car. I couldn't find any real stats except for one salesperson who estimated that 50% of their sales were at sticker price. When the Miata first came out, I think it was selling for over sticker. The new generation of the VW Bug was the same.

For the record...few dealerships ever make their first offer at sticker price.... if the dealership you goto does that...then damn. I've always heard that more people than you'd imagine pay sticker price for a car, especially on luxury cars or trendy cars. Some of those will sell for over sticker. The last two times I bought a car, at least one dealership I shopped at had an attitude that they were just taking orders for the car at sticker price. And these were not the Saturn-type no-haggle dealerships. That's also not the point I was trying to make. The agent is going to posture and oversell his client and ask for more than he actually will settle for in hopes that somebody will bite. Boras is actually doing the Marlins a favor by being such a typical agent. By pissing off the South FLorida fans with his public demands and hometown ticket discount comments, he's making it easier for the Marlins to let Pudge go. The PR hit won't be as bad now. A lot of fans will now blame Pudge. Not all fans, but more than would've before Boras started talking in the press.

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And I think paying 50 million for 5 years for a catcher who is 31 or 32 years old is not only outrageous, but also stupid. He will sign with the Marlins in the next days for 21 to 25 million and 3 years. While I agree that he's not going to get $50 million for 5 years, there's still a pretty big gap between 5/$50 million and 3/$21 million. If somebody offers him something like 4 years, $32 million we won't be able to match it. I also don't think there's anything wrong with him asking for 5 years/$50 million. When you buy a car, the salesman asks you to pay sticker price. You never do it; it's just a starting point for negotiations. Except in baseball, the owners are so bad at negotiation vs. the agents, that they end up paying more than is necessary a lot of times. I really wonder how a lot of these guys became successful businessmen. If he ends up signing with a team like Baltimore for 3 years/$27 million then we'll know either he really is another greedy player or that the Marlins didn't really try to sign him.

We don't have to sign him right now. Minor League Contract until he is close to ready, than have the Big Club purchase his contract. So you don't think anybody in baseball will offer him something better than a minor league deal? If you're right, I'm all for it but I call that wishful thinking.

Difference being Jon Lieber was pitching rather well until he started hurting and he needed Tommy John. So? You don't think anybody is going to offer Dempster better than a 2 year deal at $300,000 per year? Personally, as tight as we are with money, I really don't want to commit $600,000 to a pitcher who hasn't been good in over two years.

But at a bargain basement price, why not risk it? I don't think you're going to get him at a bargain basement price. He's not going to pitch in 2004 so you have to sign him to a 2 year deal. So we'd have to commit at least $600,000 to him ($300,000 per year). But I gotta believe he'd get a better offer than that over 2 years. A rich team like the Yankees will offer him a couple of million over 2 years like they did with Lieber.

The Reds released ex-Marlins pitcher Ryan Dempster today. I guess there was no reason to keep him. He won't pitch in 2004 because of TJ surgery and he'll finish 6 years of service at the end of next year (I think) making him a free agent anyways. It's really a shame the way his career tanked, starting from even before he left here. Some of it may go back to that beaning of Vazquez. Here's a link ... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-r...ov=ap&type=lgns (This is another topic that maybe should go in the mlb forum, but he is an ex-Marlin ... )

Pudge is supposed to sign a 3-year $21 Mill deal. That's what's being reported. That's what was speculated, not reported. There's a difference. If you believe everything that Mike Beradino writes (even when he quotes an "unnamed source"), then you would have spent this last season watching Mike Lowell play 3B for the Red Sox.

3 years is kind of too much. I say 2. Castro will be ready by then. Either Casto is ready now or he'll never be ready. He'll be 30 in 2 years. Pudge should have no problem finding somebody willing to commit to 3 years. If somebody is willing to commit to 5 years, they we probably have no chance. Does anybody know the date we have to sign him by? I think because we can't offer him arbitration we have to sign him by a certain date or we can't sign him until May 1st.

They weren't going to keep Millwod anyways. So if you have $9 million to spend, you can't spend it much better than Billy Wagner when closer is the weakest part of the team. Yeah, it may prevent them from getting/keeping a starter like Millwood but then they'd be back to having no closer. Which means they'd probably be where they were in 2003 - not in the playoffs. hell, who knows, if they have Wagner in 03, they could be the wild card Any number of competent closers may have done the job. If the Phillies had gotten Urbina instead of us in July, I think they may have held us off. That would've weakened us, strengthened them, and sent the message to the players that management was going to do whatever it took to win now.

Maybe this belongs under the MLB forum, but the Phillies traded for Billy Wagner. The division just got a lot tougher for us in 2004. That was their main weakness last year - no closer. Link ... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-a...ov=ap&type=lgns

Usually when you lift weights you may gain some height as well You gain height? I've been lifting weights off and on for years, and I'm still only 5'8". How much do I need to lift to be 5'10" or 6'? Is there a weight training regimen to help me keep my hair too? Sorry to mess with you. I'm guessing you meant something else by that but it just sounded find of funny. This place is starting to sound like the Giants board.

wasnt 2003 his recovery year?? hes not getting a raise. it shouldnt be a problem. late may at his best? thats still the begin of the season!! 2.5 mill for an ace is the biggest bargain in the world. if anything winning the WS w/o AJ was good because he could rest his arm for 2004 and stay cheap for us. we didnt lose a beat and AJ will be fireballing in 2004 for 2.5 mill. late may or june? what if he pull a d willy and does good from then on? he will be worth 2.5 mill no matter what. get rid of redmond and g williams also andy fox and you got 2.5 mill. I doubt AJ will be his fireballing self in 2004. It takes about two years to fully recover from TJ. He'll probably pitch in 2004 but I'd guess he'll be pretty useless. The question is is it worth it to pay him $2.5 million in 2004 to be mediocre so we can pay him $3.5 million in 2005 and $7 million in 2006 (assuming he pitches like the old AJ in 2005). I'd hate to let AJ go but I'd let him walk if it meant keeping Lowell and/or Pudge. At least those two can help us win games in 2004; AJ can't. I'd kinda like to see us sign him to a 2-year deal at maybe $4-5 million total. This way AJ gets a little security and we get the second year of AJ, when he should be good, at a good price. But not if it means losing Lowell or Pudge.

I would guess they had. It's not like they didn't know it exists. Do you really think Palm Beach is sitting there saying "I'd pay for the stadium but they have to ask me nicely first"? Had a REAL piece of land that they could actually build a stadium upon ever been available? Why talk with a county that has no land to build on? Well, now there's land. Josh, with all due respect, you're freaking clueless. You're a 14-year old kid that doesn't know what you're talking about but figures if you say it enough times you'll sound like an authority. North Palm Beach is impractical. The land itself is not a big problem. It wasn't a big problem for John Henry. It's not a big problem now. They can find the land, in any of the three counties. The problem is coming up with the money for the stadium itself. And if you think that Palm Beach County wants to pay for it, you're talking out of your a##. You're making it up as you go along. You don't have a clue. I don't know that they don't want to pay for it and you don't know that they do. I'd rather the stadium be in Palm Beach too but Miami-Dade is the only government to step up. So if they're paying for the stadium, they get to pick where it goes. If you're so sure of this, call the Palm Beach County Commission tomorrow and express your ideas. Find out who your local commissioner is and call him/her. See what they say.

Then where have they been for the last 5 or 6 years. At least Miami-Dade has made noise about a stadium before, even when the team was bad. If they were interested, they'd have stepped up before, even if just in the last two weeks. They haven't. Palm beach County is no more interested in building a facility than Broward is. The current Marlins have not inquired about Palm Beach, or Broward for that matter. Remember way back when John Henry was owner? One of his choices was Palm Beach, so you know they have to be willing to contribute. I mean, Miami is only giving up $73 Million. That's not a big contribution by any means, especially toward a financially troubled franchise. Yeah Henry looked at Palm Beach County. Why didn't he follow up on it, especially when the deal fell through in Dade? Do you think he forget? No, it's because it wasn't going to work in Palm Beach, the governments didn't want to spend the money.

I would guess they had. It's not like they didn't know it exists. Do you really think Palm Beach is sitting there saying "I'd pay for the stadium but they have to ask me nicely first"?

Even if this was the perfect site and the land was free, without Miami-Dade, we're still $200 million short. Who says that one of if not the wealthiest county in Florida isn't willing to help finance? Then where have they been for the last 5 or 6 years. At least Miami-Dade has made noise about a stadium before, even when the team was bad. If they were interested, they'd have stepped up before, even if just in the last two weeks. They haven't. Palm beach County is no more interested in building a facility than Broward is.

Face it, the land is cheaper, there's more of it, and it's just a better situation in Palm Beach. I know that the more north you go the cheaper land and homes get. But PBC = cheap land? The man who owns it is willing to sell it to the Marlins for a bargain. Josh - who cares if it's a bargain? Who cares if it's free? Where do you get the $350 million to build the building? I think I'm going to adopt jonny's sig.

This is the most impractical idea I've heard yet. Forget the debate on the fan base. Let's say Don King decides at age 72 he will perform the first selfless act of his life and gives the Marlins the land. Then what? Who pays for the stadium? Miami-Dade? Even if this was the perfect site and the land was free, without Miami-Dade, we're still $200 million short. Forget it. This one ain't happening. It's just Don King trying to get his name in the news.

I think Huizenga will do whatever he can to kill a stadium deal. There's a limited number of dollars that individuals and corporations can spend on sports. If the Marlins start pulling in revenue in their own stadium, part of it will be new money but part of it is going to be siphoned from money that goes to the Dolphins, Heat, and Panthers. I would think the ideal situation for Huizenga would be a weak Marlins team playing in PPS in the summer. Huizenga gets some money from concessions and rent at a time the stadium would otherwise be empty. I think the last thing Huizenga wants is for the Marlins to be wildly successful in South Florida and receiving revenue that he can't get his hands on. I don't think he's going to want a good Marlins team taking away interest from his Dolphins during the meaningless NFL exhibition games when attendance is weak anyway and during the early part of the football season.

I happen to like the sound of the Miami Marlins. And no I did not have a prior notification of this morning's Miami Herald when I started this poll yesterday. I was just curious about what everyone thought. I don't know how someone can saw that Miami-Dade does not care about the Marlins. What a ridiculous statement! That right there is the reason that nothing gets done in this 3 county metro area, because of the stupid county fights. That was the main reason the team was not named the Miami Marlins in the first place, because Wayne never cared for Miami-Dade, which is why his former hockey team is playing in the middle of a Broward swamp, because that was where their fan base was...Well, Broward proved their worth as a fan base...IMO it's a shame that we had to build two seperate arenas for the Heat and Panthers, when some of that money could have gone to build a baseball park... At any rate, they will still be our team, whether it is the Miami Marlins or the Florida Marlins. People through out the state pull for the Miami Dolphins and Miami Heat, so why not the Miami Marlins? This Miami Marlins name-change talk isn't new. I think that was talked about back when Henry owned the team, when a Miami stadium was being discussed. I think Wayne named the team the Florida Marlins so it would seem like Florida's team and he could have the entire state feel like his fan base. A bigger base, more money. I don't think Wayne cares one way or another about Dade, or Broward, or Florida. It's whatever angle he thought would make him a few more dollars. I totally agree it's a shame to have two new sports arenas. If the Panthers and Heat could've shared one in one county then the other county could've built a baseball stadium. But Arison and Huizenga allegedly hate each other so they didn't want to share a building. Don't make fun of the Panthers Sunrise arena and that area. That's a big growing area and not far from my home. There's the Oasis in Sawgrass Mills within walking distance and a lot of stores and businesses in the area. Yeah it was probably a swamp at one time; what area in South Florida wasn't? Also, dont dis Broward fans. They support winners. Just like Miami fans. The Marlins start losing in downtown Miami and they won't draw. That's just like the rest of the country too, including New York and Philly and LA, except for the Cubs and Red Sox fans and look where that's gotten them. I think the Marlins should've always been called the Miami Marlins and I'm a Broward person. Miami Marlins just sounds better. And Miami is the main city in the area. The Panthers should've always been called the Florida Panthers though even when they played in Miami - that's the name of the animal it's named after (the Florida panther) so it sounds right.