83Gator

I don't know about spring training but since most of our spring games are in the daytime and since Penny had a good spring, I'd imagine he pitched well this spring during the day. In his career he has been mostly terrible during the day: Day: 7-12, 6.01 ERA, 1.56 WHIP, .299 BAA Night: 34-23, 3.63 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, .246 BAA Doing better at night isn't that uncommon for power pitchers.

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place. At the time, he felt that MLB was going to take on the players at the end of the next contract and get a salary cap. Once the owners caved in against the players in '94, he couldn't control his costs and couldn't make enough money on the Marlins for it to be worth while. It's okay for the Marlins to cut into the Dolphins if you're making a ton of money on both teams. You don't want the Marlins to cut into the Dolphins revenue if the Marlins profitability is a lot lower than the Dolphins because the Marlins costs are so high. Wayne was one of only 2 baseball owners who voted against the settlement with the players after the 94 strike.

I don't want to start a war, but think about what you're saying, it may be the most absurd thing I've ever heard! Wayne started the Marlins, great, he's a business man, he cleaned up selling the team, making Henry his b***h with the lease, etc. He's moved on. Do you know how many teams share markets? Additionally, do you know how many teams shared owners at one point? Steinbrenner is far and away more vindictive than Huizenga, and he was a controlling partner in the Nets, he sold them, made his money, and is happy to see them move on under new ownership IN BROOKLYN no less so it threatens his Yankees even more. The Dolphins are the Dolphins, one of the top 5 franchises in the NFL; and the only reason they don't fill the pro for playoff games is because they're suffering Atlanta Braves syndrome, the Dolphins are expected to be there. I hate Wayne as much as anyone, but this is really over the top. 1. Why would he dismantle the team and ruin the market before he sold it? If you have an asset you want to sell, you don't destroy the value of the asset before you sell it. Because he didn't want the team to do well here without him because he was afraid of Marlins revenue canibalizing Dolphins revenue. And he couldn't get enough of an return on his investment on the Marlins to want to keep them, even though they were marginally profitable. 2. Wanye is incredibly vindictive and feels he got screwed by South Florida. We wouldn't build him a stadium. He also thinks he got screwed by MLB by not standing up to the union in the strike of '94, taking the hit on cancelling the World Series and not getting anything out of it. I really believe that Wayne doesn't want a good Marlins team down here in their own stadium. Why would he? What would be in it for him? All Wayne cares about is what's in it for him.

ok, maybe I'm plain dumb, but why do the Dolphins want us out of Florida? I understand why they'd want us to stay at Pro Player, but let me ask you this too: doesn't our lease expire by the time that we'd be moving anyway? I mean, Wayne is getting our money either way, so for the next 3 years at least, he's getting the money for his 'fins signing bonuses. It just seems a little out there for me to believe that there's a conspiracy for the Marlins to be run out of the state by the Dolphins... Supposin' the Marlins get a great new money making stadium in South Florida. They've shown they can put together a team on a small budget, maybe they could put together a dynasty with a big budget from a new stadium. You think Wayne wants to see the Marlins be a really strong team, with lots of revenue that he can't touch? That would kill his ego AND it would potentially cut into his local Dolphins revenue. There's only so many sports dollars to be spent and if the Marlins become the king in SoFla, it could hurt the Dolphins. People don't go to Dolphin playoff games now as it is. Wayne's #1 choice is to have a mediocre Marlins team playing under a terrible lease where he gets the revenue. His #2 choice is for the Marlins to get out of town altogether. The last thing he wants is a successful Marlins team getting revenue he can't get his grubby little hands on. Picture Lionel Barrymore in "It's a Wonderful Life."

Well, what is the main bill about? This is called a rider if he is doing what I think he is, just attaching the "Marlins clause" into a bill that is likely to pass but has to do with something else. If he can get it through the legislature without it being thrown out, Bush would have to sign it if he likes the bill. Not that this matters, since Jeb is in favor of us getting money for the stadium, but smart nonetheless. Maybe we can sneak this by King if he decides not to read the whole bill. This is just a House bill. King is in the Senate. It has to get through both. And trust me, he'll read it. He has a bunch of aides to handle this kind of thing.

Redmond is very limited offensively. He hits singles. He's good at hitting singles but that's all he does. He can get on base but he's so slow that he can only advance one base at a time. He also has a pretty big left/righty split. His lifetime OPS against lefties is .834 but only .663 vs. righties. Castro has a better upside. If he washes out, I'd go looking for another starting catcher before I'd give the job to Redmond. I wouldn't want to start Redmond more than 50-70 times a year.

Byrd hasn't said he's supporting this himself, just that he got it put in the bill. It sounds like politics to help his US Senate run and may not do much to actually help the Marlins. Besides, this is just the state House. Even if it passes, doesn't it still have to make it through the state Senate, where the Senate president is vehemently opposed?

i love the teal monster. the only thing i would change in a potential new stadium is to make it one of those manual powered score boards like at fenway. We had one. The first season or so, it was a manual scoreboard. They took it out. I liked the manual scoreboard. However they set up a new park, make it a pitcher's park. Teams in hitters parks don't do anything over the long run (Red Sox, Cubbies).

I don't think Gracesqui will be recalled anytime soon. Gracesqui is left-handed. We already have two lefties in the bullpen that are doing the job and three would be too many. Howard may be the first one up, and he's even on the 40-man roster while Borland and Olsen are not.

I wouldn't do it. It doesn't really buy you that much. You're just flip-flopping Beckett and Oliver. Beckett would start Friday and then Oliver would have to go Saturday anyways because Penny won't be ready to go until Sunday. So you would've split up Beckett and Penny. You can make the argument that you want a different type of pitcher between the two hard throwing righties, but if they'd wanted to do that, they'd have done it to open the season.

Anyone want to remind this guy that he hit those homeruns off of guys that are probably delievering packages for UPS today?? Zach Day is delivering packages for UPS? Great! That should give us a big advantage tomorrow when we're supposed to be facing him against the Expos. Nunez wants to play. I'd rather have a guy that's frustrated and wants to play sitting on my bench than somebody who's happy to collect a major league paycheck. I agree he shouldn't have said anything but we don't know what the questions were that elicited these responses. I'm not a big Nunez fan at all. I think he's gonna be a bust. But I think this is pretty much a non-story.

But imagine for a moment Penny, Fox and Mando closing out your games. Whew ! I think it's a waste. Having Brad Penny as your #2 or #3 guy in the bullpen is a waste of innings. Penny is capable of giving the Marlins 200 solid innings a season and winning 15 games. It's not worth giving that up for 60 innings in games when Fox and Benitez are too tired to go. Wild Card is right ... the only way you ever even consider making Brad Penny into a reliever is as the clear #1 closer, not as part of a committee.

all of you who are saying we are going to have a problem if benitez has to pitch five times a week, i wouldnt get too worked up. This was a great week, benitez will not be averaging five save opportunities a week for the entire season, i promise you this much. Whew. Thanks - I feel better. We don't have enough of an offense to blow people out and score a lot of runs. And we have strong enough starting pitching so we won't allow many runs. Therefore we'll be playing in lots of low scoring games, which are by nature close games. I'm very worried that we'll wear out Fox and Benitez in all the close games we'll be playing. We need one more guy to step up. I had hoped it would be Bump but it won't be if he refuses to throw strikes.

Much closer. Pudge did nothing from June until the playoffs (otherwise known as the months we were winning). Anyone who performs league-average all year long will be able to match his performance last year. I think that's actually backwards. Pudge didn't do much early in the season, through May. He's average dropped below .250 at one point. He his .367 in June and .376 in July. His OPS in June was 1.059 and it was 1.051 in July. His power numbers dropped in August and September and he did very little in September overall. There was a while there when Pudge carried us with his clutch hitting. I don't like the way he left us either, but you can't minimize what Pudge did for this team. And saying that Redmond and Castro are close to Pudge isn't close to accurate in my opinion. We're still a good team, maybe the best in the league. It's okay to admit we are a little weaker on the field at a couple of positions.

And theres Trevor Hoffman ya forgot.. Hoffman was never our closer. He was Harvey's setup guy. He got a couple of saves in 1993 before being traded for Sheffield, but Harvey was the man and turned in the most amazing season of closing I'd ever seen up until Smoltz/Gagne the last couple of years.

I see this being a three person race....Did i forget anyone? You forgot Mantei. I'd have to go with Nunez. The rest of them, while scary at times, got the job done. Nunez failed, though it wouldn't have been so bad if Torborg didn't think the cure was to keep running him out there over and over.

The Marlins have not turned on the bats so far. Our batting average is good, but that's about it offensively. We're 5th in the league in batting, with a .292 average. But we're tied for 12th in runs scored with 13. While our average is good, we're not drawing any walks so our OBP is only .328, which is 11th in the league. We're also not getting a lot of extra base hits - our slugging percentage of .400 is also 11th in the league. We're winning for one reason - pitching and defense (I guess that's two reasons). Our team ERA is 2.25, best in baseball. Our WHIP is 1.00, best in baseball. Our starters have been incredible and the bullpen has done the job, even if they've looked a little scary at times. That's fine - we're supposed to win with pitching and defense, and that's what we're doing.

Also people have to understand Choi is lefty. Which present a little problem, when he plays defense, when someone is on first. It something Choi and Perry Hill have been workin on. Interesting point. Growing up a Met fan and watching Keith Hernandez play first, I always thought it was advantageous to have a lefty at first; particularly when turning double plays. Is there a preference as to having a lefty or righty at first??? :mischief2 It's preferable to have a left-handed throwing firstbaseman, for exactly the reason you said - turning double plays. It's a lot easier for a left-handed 1B to make throws to the other bases than a righty. Lee just made it look much easier than it actually was all these years. I always felt it was better for holding runners on, and also growing up a Mets fan I too remember how good Hernandez was at it. He could pretty much straddle the line and place his glove right next to the base without having to worry about tangling up with the runner. It is tougher for a left-handed 1B to guard the line but overall the other two factors outweigh this and it's preferable to have a left-handed 1B.

Other attendances for some games completed so far tonight: KC: 16,134 Oakland: 20,232 Atlanta: 22,775 (my math isn't great, but isn't that less than 25,000?) Pittsburgh: 15,126 Toronto: 13,100 So, while our attendance is low compared to the opener, it's not like we're alone. Lots of cities don't draw much during the middle of the week, even on the second game of the season.

Out of 17 ESPN "Experts" not one of them picked the Marlins to win the East not even to make the palyoffs. No mention of any Marlins anywhere in their "predictions". Ohh well. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2004/n...age=expertpicks Looks to me like two of them picked the Marlins to win the division outright.

It seems as though every single member of the baseball media has spoken negatively about the Fish and is doubting them yet again. They all said the same crap last year and look what happened... Can we be any more defensive and paranoid? Picking the Phillies to win the division is not the same as talking negatively about the Marlins. Both Peter Gammons and Harold Reynolds said nice things about the Marlins; they just think the Phillies are stronger. While the Phillies aren't without flaws, you have to admit they made some nice additions to an already pretty good team. Sure it gets tiring hearing the entire media world pick the Phillies but at least you can see the logic in it, if you're objective about it.

if he turns out to be a Josh Hamilton I will be very angry :thumbup Here's a thread from the mlb board from September 2003 that I completely blew off at the time ... http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp...lins&msg=3030.1

Sounds like a strange situation, but its personal so at least he is not pissed at the team or anything. Ummm ... doesn't it bug anybody that Allison restructured his contract to include random drug testing? And that they're spreading out his signing bonus?

That's true that contraction is written into the CBA, but it also states that contraction of two teams is subject to bargaining. I find it hard to believe that an organization that will not allow it's players to be tested for drugs without a fight, let go of 50, multi-million dollar jobs so easily. Nope, that's not what it says at all. It says the effects are subject to bargaining. In other words, the disbursement of the 50 players (plus minor leaguers) is subject to bargaining, not the contraction itself. They need to bargain whether the players on the contracted teams are to be put in a draft, or become free agents, or whatever, but the owners can contract 2 teams. I am 100% sure of that. Here's the section from the CBA ... H. Future Contraction The Office of the Commissioner and/or the Clubs shall not undertake any centralized effort to reduce the number of Major League Clubs effective for a season covered by this Agreement. The Clubs shall, however, have the right, subject to the terms and conditions set forth in this Article XV(H), to reduce by as many as two (2) the number of Major League Clubs effective for the 2007 championship season. (1) Procedure (a) The Clubs may not take a vote relating to contraction effective for the 2007 season prior to April 1, 2006. The Clubs shall notify the Association of any decision to contract effective for the 2007 championship season no later than July 1, 2006 and, on or before that date, shall supply to the Association a tentative championship schedule for the 2007 championship season reflecting such deci-sion. (b) Any decision to contract effective for the 2007 championship season shall be subject to effects bargaining and such bargaining shall commence no later than July 15, 2006. (2) Covenants of the Clubs and the Association In the event the Clubs vote to contract effective for the 2007 championship season: (a) The Association, on behalf of itself and the Major League Players, shall not bring in any forum any contractual or NLRA challenge to the decision to contract (but not the effects thereof). Moreover, the Association shall not pursue, encourage, finance or assist any antitrust challenge to such decision to contract; and (b) The Clubs shall not contend, in any litigation related to a decision to contract effective for the 2007 championship season, that the decision to contract is a mandatory subject of bargaining under the NLRA. Notwithstanding subparagraph (a) above, the Association may intervene in any such litigation to enforce the covenant set out in this subparagraph (b). (3) Exclusion This Article XV(H) shall not preclude the owner or owners of an individual Club from taking action (e.g., bankruptcy) that would result in the elimination of such Club. (4) Survival of the Basic Agreement The Clubs and the Association expressly acknowledge and agree that this Article XV(H) shall, in all events, survive the expiration of the Basic Agreement. (See Attachment 8.) If the owners want to contract after 2006, it is still far from a certainty, because of local government intervention, not the Players Union. The City of Minneapolis and State of Minnesota effectively killed the last attempt at contraction by enforcing the Metrodome lease.

Incidentally, what is the rush for this state rebate anyways? As King himself said, its too late for this year, but if they can somehow confirm that this rebate will pass next year, all the marlins really lose is 2 million. I would assume that this is something they could deal with and thus start construction with the funds they already have in place. There is no way they can confirm that the rebate will pass next year. Many members of the Florida Legislature are against it because they feel the Marlins already received the rebate for modifications to JRS. You can argue all you want on whether they're right or not, but that's how they feel and they get to vote. Also, the people in the Florida Legislature now may not be the same people in it next year. It's an election year. So even if the Marlins know they have enough votes in the Florida House and Senate now, they may not have the votes this time next year. If the Marlins count on this money, especially if they do it publicly, without it being formally approved, I think the Legislature would rebel just on principle and it would never be passed.