i'm glad our bullpen has gotten better, but imo our offense hasn't improved at all.

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Lo Duca over Redmond is a huge upgrade.

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yup.

 

and enc over choi is a huge downgrade.

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Choi did not have that good of numbers though. And a 2nd half Mike Lowel is huge downgrade over first half Mike Lowell. You don't know how they will perform. You can look at statistical trends, but they mean nothing right now because this isnt last season or the season before.

 

Easley could produce just as much as Choi did but he won't start.

Enc's numbers are pretty close to Choi's....and before that HR Choi had against Philly the other day, that was his first HR in a few weeks. So, Conine is a better fielder at first than Choi and Enc is a better fielder than Conine than Conine in outfield.

Choi is a fan favorite, not an awesome player...just look at his numbers...a 40 rbi first baseman? with a huge number of strikeouts? meh

Enc's numbers are pretty close to Choi's

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hehe...breast implants on a corpse

 

a .235 batting avg with a .289 on base percentage is abysmal and easily makes him worst hitting starting corner outfielder in the league. i'm still in disbelief that he might actually make it into our starting lineup.

 

comparing RBI and small sample size RISP numbers is fruitless, and i'm sure most people can agree there's little statistical basis to it.

 

enc is a huge downgrade from choi, any way you cut it.

Choi's power numbers have greatly decreased as the seaon has gone along. He hit 9 home runs and 18 RBI in April. In the three months since then, he has a total of 6 home runs and 22 RBI.

Choi's power numbers have greatly decreased as the seaon has gone along. He hit 9 home runs and 18 RBI in April. In the three months since then, he has a total of 6 home runs and 22 RBI.

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that's a great point and i can't argue with that, except to point out that enc has slumped even harder during that period.

LoDuca 2nd half isnt a huge upgrade over Redmond

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Redmond was the worst starting catcher in the National League...he plays hard but is extremely limited. The season has taken a tremendous toll on Redmond. The guy is so beat up he can hardly move. Teams are running all over the Marlins. LoDuca is an all-star, one of the top catchers in the NL (no question about it.) If you do not believe LoDuca is a huge upgrade over Redmond you are crazy.

 

:thumbup

yeah i can remember that in the first month of the season choi was right on top of league in Homers and ribbies and then his power numbers just fell off a cliff when he decided he wanted to walk to first rather than trott home

I'm not saying LoDuca isnt an upgrade...I'm saying it isn't a HUGE upgrade.

 

And the reason teams are running on us b/c of the pitchers...

Mota has 8 wins

damn yankees got Loaiza

I think one of the biggest things is going to have a legit 3 hole hitter, and Mike Lowell and Cabs move back a spot where they both fit better in the lineup

If we were in a normal market, average situation i wouldn't be all that gun ho about basically reinventing the wheel at the trade deadline at the expense of the future. BUT we're in South Florida fresh off a World Championship and still without a stadium deal in place.

 

Hate that we had to lose Choi, but we ended up making out like Bandits. Excellent trades when you consider that we're dealing like theres no tomorrow in hopes of finally cementing the stadium.

Getting Lo Duca is a big upgrade over Redmond. We had horrible produciton at the position, now we got a legitimate .300 hitter in there. Now Redmond can join his natural backup role. And getting Mota is big for the bullpen, our bullpen has stuggled mightly at times. This guy is one of the best relievers in baseball. Encarnacion is very streaky on offense but he is capable of gettin on a roll and he is a very good defensive player. Valdez has 9 wins this season and although his ERA is not great he will do a decent job rounding out the starting rotation. All and all our GM has done a great job filling in alot of holes.

i'm glad our bullpen has gotten better, but imo our offense hasn't improved at all.

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How can you say that our offense hasn't improved??

 

Lo Duca is a million times better than anything we have as catcher....

Hee Seop Choi?? Sure, we liked him, BUT, he's still a couple of years from stepping it up, if he ever does...We have a deep bench, and Enc and Conine will do a good job platooning in the OF, plus Cordero will be back to platoon at 1st with Conine, so....how on earth can you say that we haven't improved?

WTH!

 

Choi was our 3rd best hitter and he was 'a couple of years' away from stepping up? If McKeon used him higher in the order he'd have a lot more RBIs than he does and we'd have a few more wins.

Its funny how in 1 day Our bullpen was our weakness and now its our strength.

Ferry,

3rd best hitter? ever go to games or just a stat geek?

 

He had plenty of chances to knock in runs with Lowell and Cabrera both around .300. Like all of us, we wished he would have knock in runs but after April, he did not "hit" that well. It is also obvious that the top 4 have averages around 300, leaving the next few guys to knock in runs. If he couldnt do it in the 6th hole, what is the difference in the 3 hole....just two less potentially on base.

third best hitter

He's not even Top 5.....JP, Luis, Lowell and Cabs and I would even take Conine before Choi...the man can't hit an off-speed pitch and had that huge slump before the homerun against the Sillies....

maybe better than the C position but that is it. on the same level as AGON at the plate....but he should get better.

7th on the team even behind easley

Value over replacement player, to date:

 

Lowell 50.5

Cabrera 40.8

Choi 27.9

Castillo 23.2

Pierre 20

Gonzalez 8

Conine 6.8

Redmond 0.4

 

Lo Duca 22.3

Encarnacion 0.7

 

Pudge Rodriguez 50

Derrek Lee 40.9

 

Penny 33

 

Mota 24

Valdez -2.7

 

Darren Oliver -6.9

 

 

By almost every method available Hee Seop Choi was the third best Marlin hitter until the trade. Much, much better than Jeff Conine and Juan Encarnacion.

 

The Beinfest trades would have been fine if he could have also gotten Admin Walker, but since he didn't the team is basically the same. The bullpen is much better while the starting pitching is seriously downgraded and the offense is either the same or a little worse. Encarnacion is the opposite of addition through subtraction. I like Mota and Lo Duca but they're just not the answer when Conine moves to first and Encarnacion is in right field.

The Beinfest trades would have been fine if he could have also gotten Admin Walker

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agreed... i'm assuming beinfest had in mind that he would be trading enc for someone, but since that didn't go through, i find it hard to believe that this offense is any better. had we gotten walker, i wouldnt have minded the loss of an affordable hee seop choi much because i'd be able to accept it as the price to pay in order to make a playoff run.

 

on another note, how did juan encarnacion's value over replacement manage to stay out of the red? :lol

on another note, how did juan encarnacion's value over replacement manage to stay out of the red? :lol

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Good question .

this was an EXCELLENT trade, all around. catcher is, quite simply, the most important position on the field after pitcher. think it's a coincidence we won when we got Pudge, and couldn't score without him? think it's a coincidence that the Tigers are winning like the Fish did last year now that THEY have him? having a solid catcher is important for two reasons - one, there is a lot of responsibility that comes with that position, but secondly, and more importantly, for most teams that position is a wasted offensive slot in the lineup. to get offensive production out of your catcher is almost like our team being allowed to use a DH while the other team's pitcher has to hit. it's like having an extra bat in the lineup. only one other team in the NL has an advantage like that right now - the Braves with Estrada. and shockingly, they're in first place.

 

also, let's not get too worked up about what we're losing in Choi. OBP is nice if you're a 1, 2, or 3 hitter, but who cares if your #5 or #6 hitter gets on base 40% of the time? his job is to drive in runs. if he gets on base, who's going to knock him in, Redmond? the pitcher's spot? Choi hit .237 with runners on base, but his OBP with runners on was .388. know where that gets you? 40 RBI through 4 months of the season, with 15 of those being himself on his homers. Encarnacion has been hurt this season, has had a terrible BA, and even HE has more RBI than Choi. heck, Ray Durham and Cesar Izturis have more RBI than Choi, and they're leadoff guys and #2 hitters. it's not surprising, b/c that's how Choi hits - like a guy at the top of the order should hit, only with more power. you can get away with that high OBP\low BA stuff if you're Adam Dunn and you're on pace to hit 50 home runs. but if you're gonna hit 20 or 22 (as Choi is), you better find other ways to drive in runs, or else you're not doing anyone any good as a #5\6 hitter.

 

my point is this - everyone out who says we're going to miss our old lineup, i wonder what you have been watching for the past 4 months. at least now, we have a chance at being a World Series contender. that old lineup was not cutting it. everyone kept making excuses and kept saying it was going to come around, but please....they had 4 months. we needed this. if we end up missing Choi, it will only be b/c his name is fun to chant. trust me.