July 22, 200521 yr It's my first post here so please take it easy on me . I don't think the Redsox are going to bite on Burnett unless Lowell is taken off the table.Lowells numbers this year are similiar to what Kevin Millars are.Not to mention at the 18 million owed to Lowell.In fact i think the Marlins are grasping at straws here trying to include a under performing 3rd basemen with a 3-4 starter at this point.I do believe that Burnett can be great if given time with Varitek and become a legitimate cy young contender. As for the Redsox side Arroyo isn't a great pitcher similiar to Burnett in many ways without the k's and with a habit of hanging his breaking pitches. The only way i would make this trade from a Redsox side is if Lowell is taken out and i would give up Arroyo,Moss and Embree maybe throw in another middle end prospect if i can sign Burnett to a extension. 869412[/snapback] How kind of you to give a guy you just DFA'd, a third tier prospect and a pitcher who will be out of baseball in 3 years. 869419[/snapback] All Embree needs is a change of scenery and would probbaly work out as well as Chad Fox did.As for Moss he is the one of the Redsox top 10 prospects and is killing the ball recently after his slow start. 869452[/snapback] Saying somebody is a top ten prospect within an organization is really not great praise when you think about it. In any event we both know he is not one of the RS prized youngsters. 869459[/snapback] Lets do it this way taking Lowell out of the trade what would you want for Burnett as is with no "72 hour window"?
July 22, 200521 yr Just so you know Moss is one of our top prospects. I would rank him at 6th in our organization behind the big 5. He also is a top 70 prospect in all of baseball and is 21 and hitting well in AA.
July 22, 200521 yr I know there is a slim to none chance Burnett will stay, but I am almost as happy at getting compensation picks than I am at some of the stuff we are getting in return. Actually here is my dream deal: Red Sox get: AJ Burnett Ismael Valdez(I know he has no real trade value, but they do need stregnth in the pen) Reds get: Marlins MLB ready pitching prospect Red Sox MLB ready pitching prospect Alan Embree Marlins get: Bronson Arroyo Wade Miller Willy Mo Pena 2006 Lineup CF Juan Pierre 2B Luis Castillo 3B Miguel Cabrera 1B Carlos Delgado RF Willy Mo Pena C Paul Lo Duca LF Jeremy Hermida SS Alex Gonzalez 2006 Rotation Dontrelle Willis Josh Beckett Bronson Arroyo Scott Olsen/Jason Vargas(whichever impresses more in ST) Wade Miller. I know this clashes with my idea of completely building the pen and rotation in-house, but since this deal would be made this year, it really doesnt, and it gives a couple of our guys 1 more year. Also, since the team will be exremely young(only players 30 or ever=Miller, Delgado, Castillo, and Lo Duca), we need firey manger Pena. That is a WS calibre team. Also, the team would be cheap: Willy Mo, Olsen, Vargas, Cabrera, and Hermida would all be in the $300-$400 K price range, Miller and Arroyo would prob be $1.5-2.5 million, Beckett and Willis would both still be reasonibly priced, and since we know the status of Delgado, Castillo, and Lo Duca's contracts, it would afford us the payroll flexibility to work around that and give Gonzo what he needs to stay, give Pierre a 2 or 3 year deal, and make any mid season moves that need to be made. THIS SHOULD BE THE DEAL!
July 22, 200521 yr I know there is a slim to none chance Burnett will stay, but I am almost as happy at getting compensation picks than I am at some of the stuff we are getting in return. Actually here is my dream deal: Red Sox get: AJ Burnett Ismael Valdez(I know he has no real trade value, but they do need stregnth in the pen) Reds get: Marlins MLB ready pitching prospect Red Sox MLB ready pitching prospect Alan Embree Marlins get: Bronson Arroyo Wade Miller Willy Mo Pena 2006 Lineup CF Juan Pierre 2B Luis Castillo 3B Miguel Cabrera 1B Carlos Delgado RF Willy Mo Pena C Paul Lo Duca LF Jeremy Hermida SS Alex Gonzalez 2006 Rotation Dontrelle Willis Josh Beckett Bronson Arroyo Scott Olsen/Jason Vargas(whichever impresses more in ST) Wade Miller. I know this clashes with my idea of completely building the pen and rotation in-house, but since this deal would be made this year, it really doesnt, and it gives a couple of our guys 1 more year. Also, since the team will be exremely young(only players 30 or ever=Miller, Delgado, Castillo, and Lo Duca), we need firey manger Pena. That is a WS calibre team. Also, the team would be cheap: Willy Mo, Olsen, Vargas, Cabrera, and Hermida would all be in the $300-$400 K price range, Miller and Arroyo would prob be $1.5-2.5 million, Beckett and Willis would both still be reasonibly priced, and since we know the status of Delgado, Castillo, and Lo Duca's contracts, it would afford us the payroll flexibility to work around that and give Gonzo what he needs to stay, give Pierre a 2 or 3 year deal, and make any mid season moves that need to be made. THIS SHOULD BE THE DEAL! 869490[/snapback] I know your a fish fan but nothing like making up a lopsided deal for your fav team!It will never happen from a Redsox perspective and if it did the FO would then be put in front of a firing squad here in Boston.
July 22, 200521 yr Ok, yall want Encarnacion to? Or another prospect? I dont see how that deal is terribly lopsided.
July 22, 200521 yr Ok, yall want Encarnacion to? Or another prospect? I dont see how that deal is terribly lopsided. 869599[/snapback] Considering Valdez hasn't pitched since he is on the DL.Players on the DL can't be traded .Even if he was healthy Valdez would get killed in fenway since he is a lefty. As you have the trade as the Marlins giving up Burnett who is a FA to be at the end of the season,A left handed pitcher currently on the DL and a ML ready pitching prospect which would be who? The Redsox would give up Miller who is a legit #2 when healthy and Arroyo who is comparible to Burnett .Then you would want the Sox to give away a ML ready pitcher who in the sox system could be Papelbon,Declaremen or other.Then a major league lefty in Embree who is a decent pitcher when he pitches well. The Reds then would give up Willy Mo Pena who is a starter in left for 2 unknowns and a middle relief lefty who has strugged so far. So in turn the Marlins are giving up essentially Burnett for 2 established decent ML pitchers and a starting left fielder. If you don't see how this trade is lopsided then please give me some of what your smokin.LOL
July 22, 200521 yr I don't think Valdez is a lefty. I'm not defending the trade, but it's apparent that you where boston-tinted glasses yourself. Arroyo is not comparable to AJ Burnett. And not even that close.
July 22, 200521 yr I don't think Valdez is a lefty. I'm not defending the trade, but it's apparent that you where boston-tinted glasses yourself. Arroyo is not comparable to AJ Burnett. And not even that close. 869673[/snapback] :blink: since when did he change his pitching hand from right to left :plain
July 22, 200521 yr I don't think Valdez is a lefty. I'm not defending the trade, but it's apparent that you where boston-tinted glasses yourself.? Arroyo is not comparable to AJ Burnett.? And not even that close. 869673[/snapback] Lets look at this years stats with Burnett first: A Burnett W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO 6 6 3.68 19 19 3 1 124.2 111 60 51 9 3 47 120 Arroyo W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO 8 5 4.05 20 19 0 0 122.1 121 62 55 14 9 27 68 Now here are the versus numbers for the starters now keep in mind that Arroyo pitches in the A.L which we would both agree is a pitchers nightmare given those A.L lineups.Also he pitches in a very hitter friendly Fenway Park. The only diffrence i see is the strikeouts and actually Arroyo has the better #s considering the league he is in and the hitting talent he faces every 5 days.
July 22, 200521 yr I don't think Valdez is a lefty. I'm not defending the trade, but it's apparent that you where boston-tinted glasses yourself.? Arroyo is not comparable to AJ Burnett.? And not even that close. 869673[/snapback] :blink: since when did he change his pitching hand from right to left :plain 869684[/snapback] Okay shoot me Valdez is righty but still the trade makes no sense but for the fish.
July 22, 200521 yr Wasn't Embree designated for assignment? And I was talking about giving the Reds Vargas, who is obviously MLB ready. There are more movable parts in the deal, since our farm is particularly loaded, so what do you say we just take your prospect away from the Reds, just giving them Embree, and give the Reds 2 of our pitching prospects, is that fair? You can still have Valdez too, that would be like swapping contracts(him and Miller), and my guess is we would give the Reds Johnson and Tankersly you Valdez and Burnett, you give the Reds Embree, we give you Burnett, Valdez, and Josh Wilson(who could shore up your 2B position if Hanley has indeed moved to the OF), or Eric Reed. So, I guess it breaks down: Red Sox get: Burnett Valdez Reed or Wilson Reds get: Tankersly Johnson Embree Marlins get: Arroyo Miller Pena Does that sound any more fair? You are giving up Embree(who was designated for assignment anyway), Arroyo, and Miller, we are giving up Burnett(most coveted pitcher on the market), Valdez(who could be long relief or a spot starter for yall), Eric Reed(Juan Pierre Jr.) or Josh Wilson(who people on this board like), Taylor Tankersly(LHP), Josh Johnson(Brad Penny Jr-RHP), and the Reds, who seem to ask high for anyone that is inquired about, are giving up Willy Mo Pena. Your rotation would still have: Wells, Schilling, Clement, the added Burnett, and possibly one of those guys you think is ready in the minors(or heck Valdez could fill in). I dont really see how any of this deal is unfair to anyone, you get Burnett who you want, we get Arroyo who we want, plus Pena who could take LF and allow us to trade Lowell for more bullpen help and move Cabs to 3rd, and the Reds get future pitching which is what they need. This trade actually sounds realistic.
July 22, 200521 yr the reds are not dealing Pena......god Todd....put the MVP 2005 down for once and think like a GM.
July 22, 200521 yr the reds are not dealing Pena......god Todd....put the MVP 2005 down for once and think like a GM. 869752[/snapback] Ok for the last time, I dont even make trades on MVP, and the only time I get offered a trade is when the Yanks want to give me Tony Womack. What part of that trade is undoable? The Reds "wont" get rid of Pena? It is supply and demand brother, they need pitching, we got pitching in bunches. They would still have Griffey, Kearnes, Dunn, and a kid named Edwin Encarnacion who could play the corner outfield positions. Once again, that trade that I listed works for everyone, it supplys everyones needs. And since I didn't add Lowell as a add on, that would keep the deal from being hampered. I'm sure we could add on yet another prospect, Willingham maybe, who could also play the outfield, although with what I have listed I dont think it is necessary. And for the last time again, I have never got a trade idea from MVP 2005.
July 22, 200521 yr Encarnacion is an INFIELDER....god damn....get your facts straight. 869758[/snapback] Yes I know, he is a 3B, which means playing LF or RF would not be TERRIBLY difficult, its why I said he "could" play the corner outfield positions.
July 22, 200521 yr For those mentioning how much Griffey is owed, go read my other thread on him that Ramp bumped up. Learn more about his contract before making ignorant statements. For those that think Griffey can't help us, you're insane. The only way Griffey couldn't help us is if he was injured. He's arguably having a better year than Delgado right now. If you don't want him because of injury concerns, that is reasonable. However, to say he couldn't help us is one of the dumbest things ever posted on this site. 1. Pierre 2. Castillo 3. Delgado 4. Cabrera 5. Griffey 6. Enc 7. Lo Duca 8. Gonzo That line up is even better than the Cards now that Pierre has started to hit. That lineup, along with Willis and a healthy Beckett, would make it back to the World Series this year.
July 22, 200521 yr Wasn't Embree designated for assignment? And I was talking about giving the Reds Vargas, who is obviously MLB ready. There are more movable parts in the deal, since our farm is particularly loaded, so what do you say we just take your prospect away from the Reds, just giving them Embree, and give the Reds 2 of our pitching prospects, is that fair? You can still have Valdez too, that would be like swapping contracts(him and Miller), and my guess is we would give the Reds Johnson and Tankersly you Valdez and Burnett, you give the Reds Embree, we give you Burnett, Valdez, and Josh Wilson(who could shore up your 2B position if Hanley has indeed moved to the OF), or Eric Reed. So, I guess it breaks down: Red Sox get: Burnett Valdez Reed or Wilson Reds get: Tankersly Johnson Embree Marlins get: Arroyo Miller Pena Does that sound any more fair? You are giving up Embree(who was designated for assignment anyway), Arroyo, and Miller, we are giving up Burnett(most coveted pitcher on the market), Valdez(who could be long relief or a spot starter for yall), Eric Reed(Juan Pierre Jr.) or Josh Wilson(who people on this board like), Taylor Tankersly(LHP), Josh Johnson(Brad Penny Jr-RHP), and the Reds, who seem to ask high for anyone that is inquired about, are giving up Willy Mo Pena. Your rotation would still have: Wells, Schilling, Clement, the added Burnett, and possibly one of those guys you think is ready in the minors(or heck Valdez could fill in). I dont really see how any of this deal is unfair to anyone, you get Burnett who you want, we get Arroyo who we want, plus Pena who could take LF and allow us to trade Lowell for more bullpen help and move Cabs to 3rd, and the Reds get future pitching which is what they need. This trade actually sounds realistic. 869731[/snapback] wow just wow. why are you including some chump in a deal that was just DFA'd!!! im so thankful you are just a poster on this board and not in the FO.
July 22, 200521 yr Look guys, if you are doing the deal with the red sox you arent getting much if you include Lowell. They dont want him, he lowers the value of AJ, not adds to it. If you sent them AJ alone you would get alot more for him then you would for him with Lowell. I know the team wants to free up capital to take on another large contract (as has been stated many times in the papers and here). That is the point of moving lowell about for us. If we do make the trade for lowell (giving them 3-5 million in compensation). Look to get back just Arroyo and a middle/high level prospect with the red sox. They do not have the middle relief we need. They do not have the bats they are willing to part with (unless you could on mueller or millar or youklis) All three wouldnt fit well with us. I know youklis is a good solid prospect and young player but I think he would die in Joe Robbie. If the marlins are determined to move lowell they will get ripped on AJ's value. If they wish to move just AJ then they can get much more for him. This is the decision the FO is looking over. How much can the move about if they cant move lowell. Can they make other trades? No matter what we now know that most GMs in the league believe lowell isnt going back to how he was. He isnt going to be a top 5 MLB third baseman. They will need to send cash to move him with AJ or without AJ. They may honestly be better trying to attach Tank/johnson or someone else to him and float him towards someone like Texas. Offer them some pitching prospect to drool over to just dump the contract on them. I know folks dont wanna hear that and lowell is coming about. But, if they wanna dump him, they wanna dump him. If they decide to keep lowell, AJ's market value jumps and we can get Alot more for him including top prospects like what was being offered about before by Toronto, ChiSox. Or sold players like Bosox and O's are offering. This might take the whole weekend but hopefully the Marlins will be running with it if they do move AJ about.
July 22, 200521 yr Wade Miller sucks, he has a ERA over 5 this year and is injury prone, in that proposed trade we are giving up way to much for him, arroyo and pena, also if Lowell stays we don't need Pena with Hermida coming up next year.
July 22, 200521 yr wow just wow. why are you including some chump in a deal that was just DFA'd!!! im so thankful you are just a poster on this board and not in the FO. Not to comment on this specific trade, but guys that are DFA'd are then traded all the time. Jay Payton and Brett Boone frfom the last 2 weeks come to mind.
July 22, 200521 yr wow just wow. why are you including some chump in a deal that was just DFA'd!!! im so thankful you are just a poster on this board and not in the FO. Not to comment on this specific trade, but guys that are DFA'd are then traded all the time. Jay Payton and Brett Boone frfom the last 2 weeks come to mind. 869909[/snapback] i agree. but that just seems like a cop out. lets include this guy we just rlsed in the deal. just doesnt make it attractive to me
July 22, 200521 yr I like the deal.. could move Vargas and Olsen back down to the minors and wouldn't allow for Valdez to return to the rotation, thank god. Could even keep one of the kids up for LH bullpen help if need be. Hopefully this would allow Hermida to be called up. 869001[/snapback] Why do we need to send Vargas and Olsen back to the minors? They've pitched well so far. 869020[/snapback] when valdes comes back we don't send olsen and vargas down we send valdes and riedling down :thumbup
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