The Delgado Thread

[Fishfan79]

Silence upsets Delgado

 

By Juan C. Rodriguez

Staff Writer

Posted November 9 2005

 

INDIAN WELLS, Calif. ? Unless he's hitting between Sneezy and Sleepy, or taking throws from Bashful and Doc, Carlos Delgado wants to remain a Marlin.

 

Last season's $52 million free-agent acquisition, Delgado and Coral Springs-based agent David Sloane arranged a conference call Tuesday to convey that message. Sloane said General Manager Admin Beinfest has not echoed owner Jeffrey Loria's September promise that Delgado isn't going anywhere.

 

The lone scenario under which Delgado would welcome a trade is if the Marlins are unable to assemble a playoff-caliber squad.

 

"If you're going to field a team of Dontrelle [Willis], [Miguel] Cabrera and the Seven Dwarfs, tell us that's the case," Sloane said. "Admin told me [Tuesday] they had received a partial budget from Jeffrey and he was not prepared to make any statement. ... We want to make it clear to the fans of the Marlins in no uncertain terms Carlos has no interest joining any other team."

 

Failure to secure financing for a new ballpark fueled a report the Marlins would be compelled to dump Delgado. His back-loaded deal included a $4 million 2005 salary with subsequent outlays of $13.5 million, $14.5 million and $16 million, plus a $4 million buyout of a 2009 option.

 

Unlike his previous multimillion-dollar deal with the Blue Jays, Delgado's new pact does not include a no-trade clause. Nonetheless, during negotiations last January the Marlins assured him they wanted to win in both the short and long term.

 

"I want to be in Miami," Delgado said. "I want to be in Florida and have a chance to win. I don't know what's going on in their end. ... I was hoping I didn't have to deal with this and unfortunately I am. ... We like to have an idea what's going on. I'm getting married and going away for a while. The more I think about it, the more of a distraction it is. I'd like to know where I'm going for spring training."

 

Delgado's pending nuptials and honeymoon to the South Pacific next month have kept him preoccupied. Yet, talk the Marlins would dangle the left-handed slugger at this week's general managers' meetings has kept the issue simmering.

 

In September when the Marlins were in Houston, Delgado said Loria told him, "Don't listen to the rumors. We want you to be here. You're not going anywhere."

 

Delgado added he wasn't ready to brand Loria a liar, saying: "I don't want to get to that point yet because I haven't heard from Jeffrey. As of right now, I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt."

 

Beinfest had no comment. Two years ago trade rumors surrounding Mike Lowell grew so rampant that Beinfest publicly debunked them.

 

If Delgado is traded he'll likely go to a winning situation. Plus, his deal features the financial protection of a tax equalization clause. Nonetheless, the Delgado camp is confounded with the Marlins' silence.

[Skully]

They better not trade him.... No other high priced free agent will ever sign with the Marlins again. The FO will come out looking like a bunch of liars....

 

Plus, I thought the whole reason they structured his contract the way they did was because Hampton was coming off the books next season.... This sucks. I really hope all these trade rumors end up being a bunch of BS...

[prinmemito]

I really think the FO will be freakin' idiots if they trade away Delgado, partly because we can't possibly win in 2006 without him and partly because we'll never be able to sign another big time free agent. If we trade him, it will be an idiotic move. And, to be honest, I'll be pissed and will not go to any games this coming season.

[Marlins2003]

While I've already opined at length on this in previous threads I have to wonder if this has to do with a couple of things:

 

1. The upcoming GM meeting?

2. The stadium issue and with the Legislature going back into session for a week, whether another push is going to be made to get something done in Tallahassee?

 

I still believe that when you look at Delgado's contract and its terms, there are only a handful of teams capable of taking the commitment on, and when you remove teams in the NL East, the list is even smaller. When combined with the fact he can walk after a season if traded, and the fact his contract escalates, it will cost the Fish significant $$$ to move him, getting little in return.

[prinmemito]

2003, it looks like they're shopping him. I know there aren't many teams out there than can take that kind of contract, but the truth of the matter is that the Marlins are looking to see whether they should trade him. I don't think they've made up their minds yet about whether they're going to trade him, but they're definitely considering it. I, for one, think it will be a huge mistake. I won't be going to ANY games next season if they trade him.

 

 

 

The other thing that bothers me is that Delgado probably made the choice to be in Florida after talking to his fiance. He probably wants to be closer to PR and/or wants to have his wife living with him in So. Florida. That was probably something that mattered to him and now the Marlins are considering trading him. What a-holes. They told him a no-trade clause was a matter of formality... that he wouldn't be traded anyway. I would never want to play for Florida if I were a big time free agent if they trade Delgado.

[gobucks]

I think that Beinfest has a budcet of about $50 million (guess) and til he knows if he can creatively move lowell's contract he can not commit to Delgado or his agent. I more and more think they desperately want/need to get rid of lowell's money.

[FishFan24]

I would be too. I mean of all the teams that really wanted him to play for them, he chose the Marlins because he felt he had the best opportunity to win. How many times would FA's choose the Marlins over the Mets or some other big market team? I know the Marlins are on a tight budget and they need to get creative, but I doubt that this was something the FO didn't forsee last offseason when they began going after Carlos.. Sooner or later, these guys are going to have to come out and say one way or another what is going to happen to him, and lord help them if they decide to trade him away.

[prinmemito]

I think that Beinfest has a budcet of about $50 million (guess) and til he knows if he can creatively move lowell's contract he can not commit to Delgado or his agent. I more and more think they desperately want/need to get rid of lowell's money.

 

 

$50 million is even less than in 2003. I think it's probably around $60 million.

[Guest Juanky]

I think that Beinfest has a budcet of about $50 million (guess)

Link? Basis?

[Marlins2003]

I think that Beinfest has a budget of about $50 million (guess) and til he knows if he can creatively move lowell's contract he can not commit to Delgado or his agent. I more and more think they desperately want/need to get rid of lowell's money.

 

 

I suppose an alternative would be to jettison Delgado (at whatever cost) and move Lowell to 1st base (and pray like crazy). If Lowell could return to form, or anywhere near it, (20-25+ Hrs, .285, 90rbi), the offensive loss would more or less be mitigated, but let's face it, it's a huge "if". This move would bring the Marlins into the range you're talking about, but the stigma (in the free agent market of trading Delgado after one year) would be difficult to overcome and the effect on the fan base would be tough on attendance.

 

Plus, you'll also have the media all over Loria, they are already using the "L" word with abandon and seem ready to pounce at a moment's notice. Could be very ugly.

[FreshFish]

Like I said before, I feel we wasted a tremendous opportunity last year.

 

Delgado has the right to be upset, and if we trade him it won't be good

 

 

I think that Beinfest has a budget of about $50 million (guess) and til he knows if he can creatively move lowell's contract he can not commit to Delgado or his agent. I more and more think they desperately want/need to get rid of lowell's money.

 

 

I suppose an alternative would be to jettison Delgado (at whatever cost) and move Lowell to 1st base (and pray like crazy). If Lowell could return to form, or anywhere near it, (20-25+ Hrs, .285, 90rbi), the offensive loss would more or less be mitigated, but let's face it, it's a huge "if". This move would bring the Marlins into the range you're talking about, but the stigma (in the free agent market of trading Delgado after one year) would be difficult to overcome and the effect on the fan base would be tough on attendance.

 

Plus, you'll also have the media all over Loria, they are already using the "L" word with abandon and seem ready to pounce at a moment's notice. Could be very ugly.

If Delgado is traded and we keep Lowell,

 

3B Lowell

1B Conine

LF Miguel

[Marlins2003]

A couple of other thoughts on this...

 

Why is Girardi moving so slowly to fill out his coaching staff? Is he rethinking his commitment to the Marlins?

 

Perhaps Delgado will be the last player moved (if at all, I'm not saying he will, and still strongly doubt it, but...) after other free agents are signed, other moves are completed, he'll have an opportunity to look at the team the Fish have assembled and perhaps welcome a move.

 

Just some things to think about as if there weren't enough already.

[marlinsfan75]

In my opinion he was the MVP of the team this year. He doesn't run around thinking he's the next Manny Ramirez, he just hits and hits well. I can think of many clutch hits/homers he had that make him worth the money. If anyone is worth 13 mil to the Marlins he is. He chose us over a couple other teams and I think he should retire here. I am a huge Lowell fan but Delgado is just too much of a loss if we lose him. What do we get in return for him? Payroll relief? Screw that.

[Big Dog]

Regardless of Delgado's obvious player value, I don't see how we can possibly keep him if we are going to reduce payroll by 10-15%.

[Guest markotsay7]

Regardless of Delgado's obvious player value, I don't see how we can possibly keep him if we are going to reduce payroll by 10-15%.

 

 

There you go. Great first post. Welcome aboard.

 

Bottom line is, if we're cutting, he gets cut. We got a steal for him in 05, in an attempt to get to the World Series. We didn't, obviously. If we can get a quality package for him - a couple prospects of some sort, a reliever - you do it. You save the money and sign Willis, Beckett, and Cabrera long term. Losing any one of those three is FAR more detrimental to the team and the fan base than is trading Delgado in an effort to improve the team. Getting near-ready prospects and relief pitching can be spun as an improvement, especially if within a week of the trading one of the aforementioned three is signed long term. The fans will understand why Carlos was moved and won't be as angry.

 

As far as FAs not coming here, I think that's a load of crap. FAs go to cities that lose all the time (Pudge) even though the team hasn't made strides necessary to win, save for that one signing. Just because Delgado got traded after one year shouldn't keep a big name free agent from coming here. If anything, it would stop him from backloading his contract, but even that is absurd: no matter what way you spin it, he's getting his payday. The FA could demand a no trade clause, but in the event of a "fire sale" he likely wouldn't want to be here anyway and would approve a trade (Sheffield in 98?).

[Strike 3]

Pretty much the same stuff with an added 2 cents from Omar Minaya...

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/13119331.htm

 

Delgado upset by trade rumors

 

Marlins slugger Carlos Delgado, a topic of trade talks, is frustrated that his status for next season remains up in the air.

 

BY KEVIN BAXTER

 

[email protected]

INDIAN WELLS, Calif. - Disappointed by persistent rumors that he could be traded, Marlins first baseman Carlos Delgado fired back at the team Tuesday, restating his desire to remain in South Florida and calling on the front office to clarify his status.

''I don't want to be traded. I want to be a Marlin, and I want be in Florida and have a chance to win,'' Delgado said in an unusual conference call with reporters organized by his agent, David Sloan. ``That was my position a year ago, and that's still my position today.''

General manager Admin Beinfest responded to Delgado's outrage with a silence that spoke volumes.

''No comment,'' said Beinfest, who was clearly caught off-guard by Delgado's decision to take his displeasure public. ``No comment on specific players.''

When the Marlins signed Delgado to a four-year, $52 million deal in January, he was asked to accept a contract without a no-trade clause -- something the team indicated was little more than a formality because it had no intention of trading him anyway. But in the past 10 months the Marlins have seen their stadium plans put on hold. And after spending a franchise-record $65 million on a club that finished tied for third in the National League East last season, it's likely the team will have to cut payroll this winter.

That makes Delgado, whose salary grows more than $9 million to $13.5 million in 2006, a likely trade option. And that uncertainty is weighing on the two-time All-Star.

''The more I think about it, the more distracting it is,'' he said from Puerto Rico. ``I'm getting married next month. I'd like to have an idea where I'm going for spring training.''

Sloan said the one thing that might change Delgado's mind is if the Marlins determine they aren't going to field a competitive team in the next three seasons.

''If you're going to field a team of Miguel [Cabrera], Dontrelle [Willis] and the seven dwarfs, tell us now,'' Sloan said he asked Beinfest. 'I told Admin all he had to do was say, `We're not shopping Carlos.' He said `I don't want to do that.'

``At this point their evaluation appears to be up in the air. They just plain can't say for sure what's going on right now.''

The Seattle Mariners, who tried to sign Delgado last winter, are known to still be interested in the slugger and could offer experienced pitchers -- something the Marlins need -- in return. But the fact Delgado, 33, is owed $48 million in the next three seasons limits the number of potential suitors despite the fact he hit .301 with 33 home runs and 115 RBI last season.

''There aren't too many clubs that can take on that kind of salary,'' said New York Mets GM Omar Minaya, whose club has also shown an interest in Delgado in the past.

[Marlins2003]

Regardless of Delgado's obvious player value, I don't see how we can possibly keep him if we are going to reduce payroll by 10-15%.

 

 

It's not difficult to cut payroll by 10%, keep Delgado and contend.

 

It's impossible to play competitive baseball and cut the payroll by 15%. Cutting roughly $6.5 million (10% off the oft-quoted $65 million '05 payroll), even with about $9 million +/- invested in relief pitching, is not impossible. But in order to do so alot of pieces have to fall in place, like pursuing quality replacements at short and second base, and signing Pierre for multi-years at a figure lower than he'd receive through arbitration (for one yr) and finding a new home for Lowell without giving away the ranch to do so.

 

It may be too big a task to accomplish in one season but there are scenarios where the Fish come out ahead in the longrun. When people say this is a poor F/A year, what they really mean is there aren't alot of big name, high profile players out there, but there are any number of sound, competent ballplayers who won't command big $$$ and could keep this team in the playoff hunt all season.

 

 

 

.

[prinmemito]

Personally, I am starting to think it might be best to deal Pierre and Lowell and have Aguila take over in CF so that we can keep Delgado.

 

1. Louie

2. Conine/Willingham

3. Miggy

4. Delgado

5. Hermida

6. Lo Duca

7. Aguila

8. SS

 

 

I really think that's a pretty good lineup, especially when you consider the fact that Conine and Willingham both boast pretty high OBP's. We could conceivably have two guys at the top of the lineup getting on base at close to a .400 clip. And I like Aguila's speed at the bottom of the lineup. I actually think this lineup is better than our '05 lineup.

 

What do you all think?

[marlinsfan75]

I like that lineup and overall it is cheap. Lowell killed us this year with so many rally breaking popups. He is my all-time favorite Marlin but he may have to go.

[prinmemito]

The thing that I like most about that lineup is the high on base percentage of so many of the players. There could be 5 players (Louie, Willy/Conine, Miggy, Carlos, and Hermida) with OBP's from .385-.400. With so many guys on base, you're bound to score a bunch of runs. I think this is a much superior lineup than what we had last year.

[TSwift25]

I'm late, I know, but I will say this.

 

If the Marlins trade Delgado and decide to just field that "seven dwarfs" squad...I'm going to demand a full refund on my season tickets, and I don't think I'd be alone among renewing season ticket-holders in doing so.

[geemoney]

What a great way to start the off-season! :thumbdown

[TSwift25]

FWIW, Gammons on ESPN just said that he sees Delgado staying with the Marlins. Saying even without a budget "in the end, they need to win, I think the $13.5 million stays."

 

Given that Capozzi and Hyde seem to just echo Gammons' reports via their "anonymous" sources, perhaps this will cause the local media to just let it go, which in turn will cause the New York media to focus on Wagner, Ryan and Manny.

[Marlin Nation]

I'm late, I know, but I will say this.

 

If the Marlins trade Delgado and decide to just field that "seven dwarfs" squad...I'm going to demand a full refund on my season tickets, and I don't think I'd be alone among renewing season ticket-holders in doing so.

 

 

Dude, you are just dying to have a reason to refund your season tickets.

[TSwift25]

I'm late, I know, but I will say this.

 

If the Marlins trade Delgado and decide to just field that "seven dwarfs" squad...I'm going to demand a full refund on my season tickets, and I don't think I'd be alone among renewing season ticket-holders in doing so.

 

 

Dude, you are just dying to have a reason to refund your season tickets.

 

No, not in the slightest. I feel that they acted unfairly in requiring a complete payment for the '06 season in order to get the right to purchase a playoff strip for the '05 playoffs, despite already having paid for the '05 season.

 

I was led to believe that doing so would aid in "security" for the team going forward. Additionally, my rep has told me that renewal was high (as anticipated), so I fail to understand why the Marlins had everything their way, and yet they go back on an implied committment.

 

If they field a AAAA team next season, it's cheating an entire fan-base who have to pay higher prices for a substantially diminished product.