TSwift25 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Worst trade the marlins ever made? Lee for Choi? That Lee trade had financial motivation with the whole "Beinfest-ball" counting your chickens before they hatch philosophy (since he chose Pudge over Lee and was left with neither, just like choosing Pavano over Penny and being left with neither). I'd have to go with the Livan Hernandez give-away or the Castillo give-away as the worst trades ever. At least Choi was a productive member of the club when here and a key to a bigger (albeit more short-sighted) trade made later in the year. Plus, there's no way in hell Derrek Lee was ever going to learn to hit in Pro Player, and he still doesn't hit when the game is on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flguy435 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 and he still doesn't hit when the game is on the line. By Situation AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS None On 358 31 126 34 3 31 31 31 5 63 0 0 .352 .411 .723 1.134 Runners On 236 89 73 16 0 15 76 54 0 46 15 3 .309 .428 .568 .996 Scoring Position 124 78 41 7 0 11 64 42 0 27 2 1 .331 .480 .653 1.133 1B Only 112 11 32 9 0 4 12 12 0 19 13 2 .286 .355 .473 .828 On Second 47 15 16 4 0 2 13 24 0 7 1 1 .340 .563 .553 1.116 On Third 23 12 10 1 0 4 15 5 0 8 0 0 .435 .536 1.000 1.536 First and Second 28 19 5 0 0 3 11 6 0 6 0 0 .179 .324 .500 .824 First and Third 16 15 7 1 0 1 13 2 0 4 1 0 .438 .429 .688 1.117 Second and Third 5 10 2 1 0 1 7 5 0 1 0 0 .400 .636 1.200 1.836 Bases Loaded 5 7 1 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 0 0 .200 .125 .200 .325 None On/Out 124 15 52 16 2 15 15 9 3 21 0 0 .419 .471 .944 1.415 None On, 1/2 out 234 16 74 18 1 16 16 22 2 42 0 0 .316 .380 .607 .987 Close and Late 87 20 36 7 1 8 21 18 1 13 3 0 .414 .519 .793 1.312 Scoring Posn, 2 out 52 32 16 3 0 4 20 20 0 13 1 0 .308 .500 .596 1.096 Men On, 2 out 86 36 29 8 0 5 25 25 0 20 6 1 .337 .486 .605 1.091 Man on 3rd, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accord Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 17% of the current Red Sox 25 man roster is made up of former Marlins :plain. Beckett, Clement, Choi, Seabass, Lowell, Tavarez..... Seanez And by my count, that's 28% not 17. Totally forgot about Rudy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugg Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Worst trade the marlins ever made? Lee for Choi? That Lee trade had financial motivation with the whole "Beinfest-ball" counting your chickens before they hatch philosophy (since he chose Pudge over Lee and was left with neither, just like choosing Pavano over Penny and being left with neither). I'd have to go with the Livan Hernandez give-away or the Castillo give-away as the worst trades ever. At least Choi was a productive member of the club when here and a key to a bigger (albeit more short-sighted) trade made later in the year. Plus, there's no way in hell Derrek Lee was ever going to learn to hit in Pro Player, and he still doesn't hit when the game is on the line. Oh come on Double Down. Can't we at least see what these kids do first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 He's just streaky...and come on penguin you were the guy who was practicially begging for us to sing Kevin Brown this offseason so dont dog one pile of crap who has at least potential and then talk up one pike of crap who is just that...crap. Consitant playing time would probably equal consistant stats for Choi, playing for a new team every year/year and a half doesnt help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchoftheday Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 a lot of people can hit the ball hard this one has a funny name and the guy is huge and korean ... WHO CARES move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 It's rather funny that there is no middle ground when it comes to discussing Choi. I think we can all agree that between Dusty, Jack and Jim he hasn't been given a fair chance. Despite having some promise for the future, he's been benched for players with equal or less present ability. Despite a record of success against southpaws, he's not allowed to hit against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer_fran Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 It's rather funny that there is no middle ground when it comes to discussing Choi. I think we can all agree that between Dusty, Jack and Jim he hasn't been given a fair chance. Despite having some promise for the future, he's been benched for players with equal or less present ability. Despite a record of success against southpaws, he's not allowed to hit against them. Then people complain he's streaky, it's kind of hard to get into a groove when you don't play everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 Worst trade the marlins ever made? Lee for Choi? well.. I guess you could say it's DLee for Gaby Hernandez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Worst trade the marlins ever made? Lee for Choi? well.. I guess you could say it's DLee for Gaby Hernandez And Jesus Delgado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flguy435 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 It's rather funny that there is no middle ground when it comes to discussing Choi. I think we can all agree that between Dusty, Jack and Jim he hasn't been given a fair chance. Despite having some promise for the future, he's been benched for players with equal or less present ability. Despite a record of success against southpaws, he's not allowed to hit against them. I obviously like him. I think the people don't like him think the people who like him thing he is some awesome player. I can only speak for myself, but I think the other people who also like him, are just pointing out for his cost and his defense he could catch on as a starter somewhere, and it shocks us he dropped so far in the waivers. I mean there are some teams out there with pretty bad 1b. We think somewhere in the league someone would want to take a chance on him, he has shown promise. At the worst he will catch on as a defensive 1b who can get on base. He is still young, 27, just as young as Josh Willingham, who hasn't exactly been through the majors yet, I wonder if the people who dislike Choi loath Willingham as well. Look even Derrek Lee took a while to find his groove, but at least Lee had the chance to start everyday in one place. Eventually Choi will catch on, somewhere and that team will be rewarded. His problem for now is that he isn't your prototypical power hitter. Last year his best spot was went he batted second. That is when he basically showed his best batting and nearly best ability to get on base. I think his best tools are his eyes, and the fact he can hit the other way when he wants. And he might not hit lefties good but his OBP against lefties was better than against righties, even in limited action. Also the Dodgers killed him last year having him PH about 50 times. He is NOT a PH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Despite a record of success against southpaws, he's not allowed to hit against them. *Career Average: .159 Total Home Runs: 2 Nearly half of his at bats against LHP have resulted in Ks. Yes, he has had 700 less at bats when facing lefties, but do those numbers really say that's a bad thing? Ferry was referring to his minor league numbers against lefties which are actually quite good. However, three organizations, none of whom have 'bad' scouting systems, regarded him as nothing more than a platoon players; three big league clubs can't be wrong on that. But, personally, I don't think Choi's been put into the right situation to succeed. In Chicago he arrived on a team close to winning and expected to be (along with Corey Patterson) the home-grown superstar that puts them over the top. In Florida he replaced, more or less, one of the three most productive players in team history also on a team built to win, and in LA he was the secondary piece in a mammoth trade made in the middle of a pennant-race season that saw a local icon depart. Being nothing more than a waiver claim in Boston may do wonders...just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flguy435 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 He had a chance to play everyday with the Marlins. He started out strong but as soon as pitchers adjusted to him, he was finished. By Day/Month AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS Last 7 Days 5 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 .200 .333 .400 .733 April 61 14 18 0 0 9 18 12 1 17 1 0 .295 .419 .738 1.157 May 77 12 17 6 1 2 9 13 2 27 0 0 .221 .344 .403 .747 June 72 12 21 7 0 2 6 13 0 16 0 0 .292 .395 .472 .867 July 74 10 21 4 0 2 7 15 0 18 0 0 .284 .404 .419 .823 His HR numbers went down but his other numbers were rather consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Peng, my point is that he hasn't been given the chance. Not that he will be a lefty killer or even hit decently against them. When the number of crappy ballplayers signed or designated to platoon with him is larger than the amount of at bats he's had against southpaws, it's telling. That .430 slugging percentage over those 3 months isn't something to scoff at. He wasn't going to hit 9 bombs each month. He wasn't going to replace Lee. But don't ignore that he is a better player than 2003 Eric Karros, 2004 Wil Cordero or 2005 Jason Phillips, and could improve through his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I never cared for Heeshisching Chow Choi but I'm sure he'll have a good time in Fenway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Dodge (and anyone else with racist or culturist attitudes), shut the f--- up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Dodge (and anyone else with racist or culturist attitudes), shut the f--- up Christ almighty, there's a difference between humor and hostility/hate. Sorry if I offended anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Dodge (and anyone else with racist or culturist attitudes), shut the f--- up Christ almighty, there's a difference between humor and hostility/hate. Sorry if I offended anybody. I have no idea what I have to do with any of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Because despite his so called inconsistency, he ends up helping the team overall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Because his managers are a**holes and he's not been in the best fit for his teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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