Why are you all disputing Treanor and telling him to hit fastballs first?

 

 

 

I don't get it, the attendance has been downright shameful for this team this year. He's not talking about the ones who actually go out, hes talking about the entire crowd. :banghead

If you think the Marlins would be selling out the stadium if they kept last years line up you are out of your mind.

 

But what if Huizenga had never dismantled the team after 97. It wouldn't be the first time that someone who sees me in a Marlins shirt says "I used to like the Marlins, then they sold all their players". I don't even bother asking if they mean in 97 or 05. But I'm pretty sure most people's problems begin with the post-1997 destruction of the team.

 

But I'll take a different stance on this - while I agree that Treanor's not the guy who should try to "rally the fans", especially by telling us we should be "ashamed". None of the fans like the situations with the stadium and all that, and we'd all lik to have more people coming to the game, but almost no one can afford to be at every game and each one of us can only do so much. Anyway, I'd rather Treanor just shut up about it. I like the guy, but nothing good can come of comments like this, or even thinking about it. The team needs to focus on playing their best. The best thing they can do to fill the stadium would be make the playoffs, no matter what you think of it. Whether you think the success will ever get the results we want, the fact is that whining about it will never help.

If Matt Treanor doesn't think there were 30,000 people there last night he needs glasses.

 

I haven't seen the terrace boxes, outfield and upperdeck that crowded all season. And I think anyone else who was in attendance would agree as well.

If I were him, I'd be ashamed of his .208 batting avg. I think I'd be OK with a player like Miggy or D-Train saying something...but not Treanor.

 

I agree. Treanor is not the one to whine about lack of support. I've gone to about 15 games this season and earlier this season when Treanor was a part-time starter I would plan ahead to NOT go on games he started becasue I don't have any interest at all in watching him play the game. When Moehler was a starter I would also plan around his starts for the same reason. Imagine if we had 25 Treanors on this team.. we would be about 110 games below .500.

 

 

2 fire sales will go a long ways to killing a fan base....what did they expect?

 

 

 

 

 

If you think the Marlins would be selling out the stadium if they kept last years line up you are out of your mind.

Both firesales have slashed attendance by something like 40%. If you're trying to grow a business I wouldn't recommend following business practices that slash your customer base by 40% ala firesales. Without a firesale, say with a $50 million payroll, a payroll that would allow Loria to break even, what kind of a team do you think we would have? Give Beinfest $50 million and I think he would have this team leading the WC and attendance would have increased a bit from last year's 23k to 26k or 27k. That's not great but at least the size of the fan base would be moving in the right direction.

if he wants to pay for my tickets then ill go every god damn day. but until then he should shut his f***ing mouth. Besides the fact that I love this team more than anything, why would i spend $120 dollars on half way decent seats that give me neck spasms by the end of the game because i have it turned at a 90 degree angle for 3 hours, then 7 god damn dollars for a freaking beer, etc. I can honestly say there isnt another franchise i like more than the Marlins, but these players(anyone who speaks out against the fans) have to take a look at the situation... then speak.

 

that's all very true. I agree, but people in other stadiums have to deal with the same thing, and usually the prices are worse. How come the other stadiums are filled up with fans then, if they all go through the same thing?

If I were him, I'd be ashamed of his .208 batting avg. I think I'd be OK with a player like Miggy or D-Train saying something...but not Treanor.

 

I agree. Treanor is not the one to whine about lack of support. I've gone to about 15 games this season and earlier this season when Treanor was a part-time starter I would plan ahead to NOT go on games he started becasue I don't have any interest at all in watching him play the game. When Moehler was a starter I would also plan around his starts for the same reason. Imagine if we had 25 Treanors on this team.. we would be about 110 games below .500.

 

 

2 fire sales will go a long ways to killing a fan base....what did they expect?

 

 

 

 

 

If you think the Marlins would be selling out the stadium if they kept last years line up you are out of your mind.

Both firesales have slashed attendance by something like 40%. If you're trying to grow a business I wouldn't recommend following business practices that slash your customer base by 40% ala firesales. Without a firesale, say with a $50 million payroll, a payroll that would allow Loria to break even, what kind of a team do you think we would have? Give Beinfest $50 million and I think he would have this team leading the WC and attendance would have increased a bit from last year's 23k to 26k or 27k. That's not great but at least the size of the fan base would be moving in the right direction.

 

 

 

 

The 2005 Marlins sucked. End of story.

What I find laughable is ALL those fans that cried FOUL when we had the firesale and decided to either get refund for their season tickets or just not renew them. See when you are a fan of a team you are a fan regardless of the situation and it bothers me to no end how fickle the fans in Florida are.

 

Now I am sure those same "FANS" realize this team is actually pretty good and are missing out on a great season! What upsets me is that me and my family were uprooted from Miami 3 years ago and I would give anything to be able to be back in Miami with my season tickets to see this team play.

 

 

Anyhow I look forward to going to see them in Milwaukee next week I bought the tickets before the season started and I got seats right behind home plate for the series.

The only reason the attendance was so high last night was because it was UM night and they brought in 11,000 people from UM-employees, alumni, students, and family.

What I find laughable is ALL those fans that cried FOUL when we had the firesale and decided to either get refund for their season tickets or just not renew them. See when you are a fan of a team you are a fan regardless of the situation and it bothers me to no end how fickle the fans in Florida are.

 

Now I am sure those same "FANS" realize this team is actually pretty good and are missing out on a great season! What upsets me is that me and my family were uprooted from Miami 3 years ago and I would give anything to be able to be back in Miami with my season tickets to see this team play.

 

 

Anyhow I look forward to going to see them in Milwaukee next week I bought the tickets before the season started and I got seats right behind home plate for the series.

No.

 

Being a fan of a team does not mean being a lap dog for anything either that front office, the manager, or the players want to do. You're not a bigger fan just because you didn't want to return your tickets.

 

If the biggest fans weren't allowed to talk down to the management, why would message boards for teams exist at all? Would get rather boring after a while, don't you think?

What I find laughable is ALL those fans that cried FOUL when we had the firesale and decided to either get refund for their season tickets or just not renew them. See when you are a fan of a team you are a fan regardless of the situation and it bothers me to no end how fickle the fans in Florida are.

 

Now I am sure those same "FANS" realize this team is actually pretty good and are missing out on a great season! What upsets me is that me and my family were uprooted from Miami 3 years ago and I would give anything to be able to be back in Miami with my season tickets to see this team play.

 

 

Anyhow I look forward to going to see them in Milwaukee next week I bought the tickets before the season started and I got seats right behind home plate for the series.

No.

 

Being a fan of a team does not mean being a lap dog for anything either that front office, the manager, or the players want to do. You're not a bigger fan just because you didn't want to return your tickets.

 

If the biggest fans weren't allowed to talk down to the management, why would message boards for teams exist at all? Would get rather boring after a while, don't you think?

 

 

I agree with you 100%.... but being a lap dog and being a smart baseball fan are 2 diffrent things. I think it was pretty obvious that the front office was doing their best to get us the best possible talent for our high priced guys. I am no genius but I was very optimistic about this team going into the season because I liked the assebled talent we had got for our players. Sure I was a little pissed to hear about the firesale at first. But once I saw what we got in return I think I was pretty excited about the pospect of our future for the next few years.

What do you expect from a fanbase that has experienced a horrible firesale before? It's not like this city can really look at any sort of salary dump positively, especially considering all the circumstances around this franchise. Paranoia about player movement is rampant, and for good reason, so why should it be a surprise that people overreacted to the moves this offseason?

 

Then, in the crown jewel of horrible timing, during the firesale the Marlins announce they are seriously thinking about moving. Oh yeah, really earning our money there. I'm more shocked that a greater amount of people didn't try to get out of their season tickets.

I can't argue that. But you have to admit that our fans are the most fickle. I mean if this team isn't winning or doesn't have a "perceived" shot at success then people would just rather not go. I mean for South Floridians that attitude makes sense, it's not like any normal baseball town where there aren't many alternatives to watching baseball. In South Fla there is so much other entertainment.

I'll say it again and again and again....

 

It is not the fans obligation to go to a game. It is the teams obligation to give fans a reason to go there. It is not for MLB to decide what value is, it is for the fans to decide. I don't hear the owners of restaurants, roller skating rinks and clothing stores that are slumping with sales blaming the consumer. They blame themselves because they have not succeeded in giving the fans what they want.

 

What is it that the fans wants down here? What would it take to get more people out to the stadium? That's for management to figure out but a clue might be the word 'trust'. Attendance was once huge and then the strike. Attendance was coming back and then Wayne broke the team down. Attendance was again rising every season (granted, slowly) and then Loria broke the team down.

 

You can't tell fans one day to come out and see Carlos Delgado, Josh Beckett and Luis Castillo and the next day tell them it's the name on the front of the jersey that matters, not the back. You can't one day tell fans that the experience at Dolphins stadium sucks (John Henry) and the next expect them to arrive in droves.

 

Trust. Trust that an owner is making additions to the team to help win games and not simply a stadium. Trust that when we invest our time and money in your product you don't then rip it away not for baseball reasons but for financial reasons. We have seen a lot of teams with new stadiums build up the payroll to sell long term seat licenses only to thne see payroll shrink soon after. Is there any reson to believe that Loria will be any different?

 

So Matt Treanor...stick to catching and keep cashing your check. Leave the job of being a fan to us.

Two destructive firesales and baseball treating the fans like crap DO have an impact on attendance. The first world series would have raised avg attendance from close to 30,000 (not so bad, compare that to the white sox last yr or most, not all, teams) to well over 35,000. Now that is history. We can argue both ways because I also think that there should be better attendance.

 

But in any business, and I do not go along with baseball or pro sports being like any business, it takes a lot more effort, costs a lot more and is very difficult to get your customers back once you have screwed them in the first place. Baseball in S. Florida was so young in 1997 and the fan base was basically locking in at about 25,000 solid. That is a base you build on. If you chop it up and blow it up with bunker busting bombs, like Wayne did, you have to start all over again. Loria stepped into a team that everything fell into place for him. He tried to build on it in the best way that an owner who is in over his head could, said all the right things about long term committment and permanence, and then gave it two more years-not exactly long term, but an attempt. Then he bombed the base all over again. The slow return of the fans has been destroyed again. The surprise play of this team is not enough, unfortunately. We won't even get in to the crap going on with Mr. Minor League owner and Girardi.

 

Now try to get them back-Matt Treanor thinks he can shame people to come back, or is just frustrated that people who have watched two firesales just don't go to the park in the numbers he and we would like. Well, Matt has to come to the park, it is his job. I go to the games, people on this board go to the games, but a lot of people have stopped for whatever reason including the constant barrage of how bad the stadium is, how lousy the seat configuration is for baseball, the threatening weather etc etc. That does not help. Joe Robbie used to bash the Orange Bowl in an attempt to get Miami to build him a stadium. Trashed the parking, the bleacher seats, the bathrooms, the leaking pipes and on and on. Look at the attendance at the OB in the mid 80's, it dropped and many people used the same reasons that Robbie used as a justification for not coming.

 

SUMMARIZE, yes, S. Florida fans should show up in greater numbers but baseball and ownership have their own issues (Relocation trips to Texas, Oregon, Vegas at the same time of the firesale-good way to keep the 22,000 fans per game who came last year) and MUST accept some of the blame for the current problems. Matt Treanor?-who cares about him, I don't, let him focus on playing and winning, nothing else.

Matt Treanor has made two major accomplishments in life:

 

 

 

1) He makes a boat load of cash playing baseball.

 

 

2) He has a pretty hot wife.

 

 

He should be more worried about shutting his hole up and praying that he is in the major leagues next year.

 

 

 

 

Let Loria, the Tri-Athelete and MLB worry about attendance.

 

:thumbup

He also says the amount of opposing team fans that get seats irks him too.

 

Now for that, I can't blame him. If I were playing in a game and someone stole a base on me and cheered instead of either doing nothing or booing the call, I'd be pissed off too. The man's playing at home and it probably feels like he's always playing on the road.

 

Not fair whatsoever.

2 fire sales will go a long ways to killing a fan base....what did they expect?

 

 

 

I didn't know fire sales could make your team better. :whistle

 

Two destructive firesales and baseball treating the fans like crap DO have an impact on attendance. The first world series would have raised avg attendance from close to 30,000 (not so bad, compare that to the white sox last yr or most, not all, teams) to well over 35,000. Now that is history. We can argue both ways because I also think that there should be better attendance.

 

But in any business, and I do not go along with baseball or pro sports being like any business, it takes a lot more effort, costs a lot more and is very difficult to get your customers back once you have screwed them in the first place. Baseball in S. Florida was so young in 1997 and the fan base was basically locking in at about 25,000 solid. That is a base you build on. If you chop it up and blow it up with bunker busting bombs, like Wayne did, you have to start all over again. Loria stepped into a team that everything fell into place for him. He tried to build on it in the best way that an owner who is in over his head could, said all the right things about long term committment and permanence, and then gave it two more years-not exactly long term, but an attempt. Then he bombed the base all over again. The slow return of the fans has been destroyed again. The surprise play of this team is not enough, unfortunately. We won't even get in to the crap going on with Mr. Minor League owner and Girardi.

 

Now try to get them back-Matt Treanor thinks he can shame people to come back, or is just frustrated that people who have watched two firesales just don't go to the park in the numbers he and we would like. Well, Matt has to come to the park, it is his job. I go to the games, people on this board go to the games, but a lot of people have stopped for whatever reason including the constant barrage of how bad the stadium is, how lousy the seat configuration is for baseball, the threatening weather etc etc. That does not help. Joe Robbie used to bash the Orange Bowl in an attempt to get Miami to build him a stadium. Trashed the parking, the bleacher seats, the bathrooms, the leaking pipes and on and on. Look at the attendance at the OB in the mid 80's, it dropped and many people used the same reasons that Robbie used as a justification for not coming.

 

SUMMARIZE, yes, S. Florida fans should show up in greater numbers but baseball and ownership have their own issues (Relocation trips to Texas, Oregon, Vegas at the same time of the firesale-good way to keep the 22,000 fans per game who came last year) and MUST accept some of the blame for the current problems. Matt Treanor?-who cares about him, I don't, let him focus on playing and winning, nothing else.

 

 

 

I'll say it again....I didn't know a firesale could make your team better. :blink:

If I were him, I'd be ashamed of his .208 batting avg. I think I'd be OK with a player like Miggy or D-Train saying something...but not Treanor.

 

Dontrelle, Miguel and a good many Marlins players thoughout the years have said as much.

 

 

 

2 fire sales will go a long ways to killing a fan base....what did they expect?

 

If you think the Marlins would be selling out the stadium if they kept last years line up you are out of your mind.

Both firesales have slashed attendance by something like 40%. If you're trying to grow a business I wouldn't recommend following business practices that slash your customer base by 40% ala firesales. Without a firesale, say with a $50 million payroll, a payroll that would allow Loria to break even, what kind of a team do you think we would have? Give Beinfest $50 million and I think he would have this team leading the WC and attendance would have increased a bit from last year's 23k to 26k or 27k. That's not great but at least the size of the fan base would be moving in the right direction.

I highly doubt you've seen the Marlins books as Loria and his assistants who made these decisions have. I also think it's a bit too forward to think you can even place a ballpark figure on the amount.

 

 

What do you expect from a fanbase that has experienced a horrible firesale before? It's not like this city can really look at any sort of salary dump positively, especially considering all the circumstances around this franchise. Paranoia about player movement is rampant, and for good reason, so why should it be a surprise that people overreacted to the moves this offseason?

 

Then, in the crown jewel of horrible timing, during the firesale the Marlins announce they are seriously thinking about moving. Oh yeah, really earning our money there. I'm more shocked that a greater amount of people didn't try to get out of their season tickets.

 

Which is why I hate these threads. It's always the blind leading the blind, the stupid encouraging the stupid and the insane winding up the insane.

If I were him, I'd be ashamed of his .208 batting avg. I think I'd be OK with a player like Miggy or D-Train saying something...but not Treanor.

 

Dontrelle, Miguel and a good many Marlins players thoughout the years have said as much.

I'm not saying I'm waiting for those guys to speak up...I'm saying that those guys IMO are allowed to "call out" the fans, since they would personally boost attendance if they were to join a new team. They are superstars, and their play is the reason I come to the park in the first place (I went to the game last night to watch D-Train).

Treanor should be happy-go-lucky he is in one of the only fields of work where you can get thousands of dollars or even be a millionaire for being mediocre or worse.

:banghead ... This "OMG the attendance sucks" is getting pretty old. Just build a stadium with a roof so people dont have an excuse.

:banghead ... This "OMG the attendance sucks" is getting pretty old. Just build a stadium with a roof so people dont have an excuse.

I had a brilliantly idiotic idea the other day. Why don't they modify the arena that the Heat play in to fit a baseball field inside. Nobody shows up for games so they can afford to move some seats out.

 

I'm not serious about doing it (won't work) but I seriously thought about it for 12 seconds the other day.

Keep in mind that the media tends to report half of what was said. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt said something nice about the fans who do show up and the writer of the article didn't want to include that.

 

I can't say I disagree with Matt. It really is frustrating when you are outnumbered by opposing fans at your home stadium. On the other hand, I agree that the firesale has killed the support for the Fish. People were starting to come back after 2003 and then another firesale and the threats of moving the team has killed support once again.

 

I don't see why we should be angry at him for just stating the truth. He's obviously not talking about us, because we do go to the games.... and if for whatever you don't, you at least support and follow the team.

While I agree that some of the seats have horrible and uncomfortable viewing angles, I doubt they cost that much and I've found other portions of the stadium to be nice and extremely cheap. The Marlins actually offer some pretty great ticket plans and if I lived in South Florida I would utilize them.

 

 

I think part of the problem is something you said in your last line "If I lived in South Fla". That's a major problem for this team. I believe that the actual fan base potential of this team is rather limited. Many folks that I grew up with no longer live here, and many have moved just since the Marlins came into being (a lot of them right after Andrew in 1992). They have been replaced by people who just don't have the money or the interest in baseball.

 

I used to think all that was needed was a new stadium, but everyday I get the feeling that maybe in the longrun even that will not really help attendance. I'm a bit concerned, as I am also thinking seriously of joining the exodous out of So Fla, and maybe moving to Georgia or North Carolina.

if he wants to pay for my tickets then ill go every god damn day. but until then he should shut his f***ing mouth. Besides the fact that I love this team more than anything, why would i spend $120 dollars on half way decent seats that give me neck spasms by the end of the game because i have it turned at a 90 degree angle for 3 hours, then 7 god damn dollars for a freaking beer, etc. I can honestly say there isnt another franchise i like more than the Marlins, but these players(anyone who speaks out against the fans) have to take a look at the situation... then speak.

 

that's all very true. I agree, but people in other stadiums have to deal with the same thing, and usually the prices are worse. How come the other stadiums are filled up with fans then, if they all go through the same thing?

 

I am thinking a lot of it has to be the makeup of the South Fla population. Many of them just don't come from baseball backgounds -- mostly from soccer backgrounds.