Trading DTrain would be percieved as salary dumping. Whether or not it makes baseball sense DTrain is the face of this team along with Miggy. Those two guys can not be traded if we want baseball to succeed in South Florida.

Yeah, that would be the perception, but would attnendance really suffer that much? I think Miggy is pretty much untradable. Unless the Marlins get Derek Jeter circa 1999, A-Rod circa 2004, and Barry Bonds circa 2001.

If Willis had a good year last year, we wouldn't dream of talking about this. That's why I dont' think we should trade him. He's going to be a great pitcher, he's had a great '05 campaign, and will have more similar years in the future. If Willis was going to put up numbers like this for the rest of his career, and if he has reached his max potential, I'd say deal him too. He had an average year this year, and we all know he can do better than that.

I dont think what happened in 2006 has that much bearing on people's thought about moving him.

I don't remember anyone talking about moving him in '05...

 

I did, but whatever.

 

Of our original trinity (Beckett, Willis, Cabrera) I always thought he would/should be the first to go. Nothing's changed.

This is the thing about the Marlins. When other teams have a good, young, rotation they are thinking about keeping all of them. We're thinking about trading one of them because of his salary and value. This sucks. Dontrelle is, along with Cabs, the face of this Franchise and we want to trade him?

 

The team isn't thinking of trading him. Everyone else is. The continued story line from the FO is that DTrain and Miggy are here long term. Unless of course someone just knocks our socks off with an offer. Just because they aren't going to be signed long term right now means absolutely nothing. I have never had a problem with one year contracts on players that can't go anywhere anyway. For a small market team, that frees up money to use else where.

In any case, I doubt very much DTrain gets $8 mil next year. $4.5 mil in '06 to $8 mil in "07 is too big a jump for what he did this year. I figure closer to $6 mil.

Look if a team is going to overpay for him then to consider moving him. The market is a sellers market for pitching specially if a few of the big teams hunting for it dont find what they want.

 

TB, Arizona, LAA, LAD all have some nice prospects that are close or just into the majors.

 

Teams like the NYY will overpay if they miss out on landing Matz and Zito.

 

If we can get a good pitching spec that could possibly replace willis and a top flight CF that can go out there now or soon and perhaps even a catcher prospect that could help for hte future it would be hard to pass up.

 

now if it is something like heilman and milledge, no way in hell.

For a Kazmir-ish deal, I'd do it

I'd like to know how Dontrelle's "value will never be higher than it is right now"? He is coming off a relatively weak season (at least relative to 2005).

Probably due to the lack of quality pitching that will be available. Just a supply-demand thing.

 

I'm stuck here. I love Dontrelle & what he brings to the team. I normally shrug off all the intangibles talk, but here's a guy where I think it might be true. If last year was an "off year" then that's a damn good pitcher we're talking about.

 

That being said, looking at payroll, getting the most bang for your buck, yeah probably a good baseball move considering the depth of pitching talent we have in our system. Just all depends on what's coming back to us. They should demand a king's random.

 

God I'd miss having him in teal though...

 

Now a cheaply signed crawford could be nice though, but I dont even think willis is honestly enough for him right now.

 

Now that's interesting.... involving Willis for Crawford

I'd look to trade him after 2007, not right now. He's a solid 200+ innings at a competitive mid 3 era without question. Let's see how Olsen, Johnson, Anibal, Nolasco, J. Garcia, Petit, and Vargas all react in the bigs in year 2 (or 3 for Vargas), and see how High A/AA treats the 'B' rotation in G. Hernandez, Volstad, West, Thompson, and Sinkbeil.

 

Just sign Kenny Lofton for $3 million bucks annually to a 1-2 year deal and use Cody versus LHP. Centerfield is not a problem in this scenario. Just get a LHP hitting 1B/LF type (we shouldn't limit our search to replace Helms to 1B/3B types because you could move Hammer to 1B vs LHP), like a Jose Cruz Jr. who smacks lefties about .875 OPS, to deal with Jacobs lack of production vs LHP, and then try to get lucky on some cheaper RP, ala incentive deals to Dustin Hermanson types, and the team will be very good.

 

When we can insert one of the 'B' kids in the rotation and feel confident they will produce, and likewise we know the Olsen/Anibal/JJ core is here to stay, then we can start moving depth. Unless the Mets call and offer a huge Thrilledge and Pelfrey package, or the DBacks go bonkers and offer C. Young, Montero, and Owings, I don't think we should move him. I'm not a fan of Matt Kemp and single A prospects type deals.

 

Also, I don't necessarily believe Dontrelle's value decreases to a team acquiring him next offseason versus this like Olney wonders. Dishing him right now would cost another team 4/$40 contractually and a premier prospect package. Dishing him next offseason (if he doesn't bomb 07) would cost another team more like 4/$46 or 5/$58, and the same prospects. That's really not adding much salary to a mid/large market team that will be trading for Dontrelle, and more then likely, making him the centerpiece of their pitching staff.

Deal Willis now while his value is the highest. I wanted to deal him last year but I think this offseason, the time is right. The FO has said that they want to keep him but I think he will be dealt at the all star break next year. Cabrera on the other hand should be a Marlin forever! Cabs could rival Pujols for the next 15 years!

If it should get to the point where we can no longer afford him, why don't we just trade him then? What's the rush? As long as we can still afford him, let's keep him...rather than weaken the team by dealing him for some prospect who may or may not pan out. I just don't get why we would want to deal him in anticipation of not being able to afford him next year. He still won't be a free agent, so we can just trade him then.

 

Unless you all think he's going to blow up next year, which I highly doubt. If anything he probably improves on this year, which, by the way, was still pretty good.

If it should get to the point where we can no longer afford him, why don't we just trade him then? What's the rush? As long as we can still afford him, let's keep him...rather than weaken the team by dealing him for some prospect who may or may not pan out. I just don't get why we would want to deal him in anticipation of not being able to afford him next year. He still won't be a free agent, so we can just trade him then.

 

Unless you all think he's going to blow up next year, which I highly doubt. If anything he probably improves on this year, which, by the way, was still pretty good.

Because if we deal him when we no longer can afford him, we don't have the upper hand in negotiating, but if we negotiate knowing we can still afford him we can field all the offers in the world, get the bids high, and get everyone drooling over him.

If Willis had a good year last year, we wouldn't dream of talking about this. That's why I dont' think we should trade him. He's going to be a great pitcher, he's had a great '05 campaign, and will have more similar years in the future. If Willis was going to put up numbers like this for the rest of his career, and if he has reached his max potential, I'd say deal him too. He had an average year this year, and we all know he can do better than that.

I dont think what happened in 2006 has that much bearing on people's thought about moving him.

I don't remember anyone talking about moving him in '05...

His Salary has grown alot since the begining of 2005 and if the market is pitching starved trade them the Marlins organization has already proved to me we dont need any specific player to be a winning team over the years we traded any big name player that we had and we probably thought they wasnt going to get traded but they did. No matter what happens the Marlins team will find a way to get better and move on.

This is a tough one for me because I don't think Ive seen a more interesting, fun ballplayer than DTrain. However, if his value is enormous (and it is) and the offer is gratuitous (probably would be) you've gotta make a deal. Whichever big market team loses out on the Schmidt, Zito, Matsuzaka sweepstakes would clean out the farm for Dontrelle who'll come at least 1/2 the price of these guys.

There will be no deal worth it.

 

No prospect, or 5 prospects are worth as much as Dontrelle. Any established player that is close to his value will cost us enough to not really save a significant amount.

 

Again, Dontrelle is much more than a spot in the rotation for us. No trade.

No prospect, or 5 prospects are worth as much as Dontrelle.

So Dontrelle is worth more then J. Upton, C. Gonzalez, M. Montero, A. Callapso, and M. Owings? Or J. Bruce, H. Bailey, and

No prospect, or 5 prospects are worth as much as Dontrelle.

So Dontrelle is worth more then J. Upton, C. Gonzalez, M. Montero, A. Callapso, and M. Owings? Or J. Bruce, H. Bailey, and <insert any 3 prospects in the Reds organization?

 

I'd take my chances.

 

 

Bailey and Bruce in marlins uniform make me drool on my keyboard

No prospect, or 5 prospects are worth as much as Dontrelle.

So Dontrelle is worth more then J. Upton, C. Gonzalez, M. Montero, A. Callapso, and M. Owings? Or J. Bruce, H. Bailey, and <insert any 3 prospects in the Reds organization?

 

I'd take my chances.

d-train is certainly not untradeable

Not to get off-topic, but thanks (not sarcastic) to whomever posted this article. I was actually interested in what Olney's column said, but I didn't have an ESPN account. I don't really like Olney, but he seems to discuss general trends and issues in baseball rather than doing what Stark or Gammons usually do, which is to cite some unnamed source as a concrete basis for saying a trade or signing will actually happen (and...for those who are counting...those two have been WAY more wrong than right over the past few years).

We have had this discussion several times before I had stated We have to look at long term projections. DT owns the hearts of Marlins' fans but if he is to be allowed to walk away in free agency in a couple of years anyway I would say TRADE HIM NOW, when he has the greatest value. As he gets closer to free agency his value lessens on the trade market. I always thought the White Sox would give us 3 or 4 of their top prospects for Dontrelle. They would go out of their way to make the best offer and the D-Train would be very happy home Chicago

IMO it could be a 3 way trade with the white sox and the reds giving us Jay Bruce and 2 pitchers Sweeney And Fields go to the Reds

LH Dontrelle Willis

2006: 12-12, 3.87 ERA, 160 K's, 83 BB, 223 1/3 IP

Notable: The Sox turned to the Florida market last winter, landing Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell at a dear price -- Hanley Ramirez may have been the National League's best rookie and Anibal Sanchez threw a no-hitter. But if the Marlins decide they have enough young pitching and elect to part ways with Willis, who could command an $8 million salary in arbitration next season, the Sox should seriously consider revisiting John W. Henry's former team. Willis is young, charismatic, and intensively competitive, a great fit in this market. While most teams aren't looking to unload arms, the White Sox may use Freddy Garcia and Javier Vazquez as possible trading chips.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...g_for_pitchers/

 

Dontrelle Willis trade rumors: The Cards would love to have him, of course, but the Marlins can demand a future outfield all-star in return. We doubt anybody views Chris Duncan in that light just yet.

 

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...66?OpenDocument

 

The Dtrain trade rumors of the day.

 

The cardinals are poor matches for us for a trade I think, and boston is a poor match as well. I think Dtrain would be sent out west where he is from if he is traded. (to the NL or AL West).

I can't imagine any prospect or even two prospects (within a single organization) outside of our division I would think adequate compensation for DW. Inside the division, more. For example purposes, talk all you want about Homer Bailey or some other can't miss phenom, I suggest the price is a Prince Fielder, a Ryan Zimmerman, a combo of Saito and Martin and a prospect (because let's face it as well as Saito pitched he's 36 years old), you get the idea.

 

All you have to do is look at Travis Bowyer to understand why taking prospects is too risky, regardless their rep, when guys with a year under their belts and a clean bill of health is justifiable. Willis is by any standards still a young guy, he has with any luck at least a decade of service ahead of him. If pitching is coin of the realm, lefty pitchng is platinum.

 

The Marlins have in Dontrelle a premier piece of talent on multiple levels, wherein the sum of the parts is greater than the whole - ability, good health, charisma, team leadership, identification nationally - it isn't just about pitching, it's the entire package. Not getting full value (and I fervently don't want to see him moved) and then some would cause me to reconsider Beinfest's value to the franchise because it isn't often (especially in the pitching-starved environment we see in the 2006-2007 off-season market) you are given a chip to work with like DW. To squander it on anything less than a king's ransom would be seen as total failure.

 

Were I the Marlins I would not wait for the arbitration period and sign him immediately, and while I'm at it, give him a no-trade clause for 2007. They're going to sign him eventually I believe rather than trade him (at least for the 2007 season), but to do it now and contracturally promise to keep him here for all of next season would a) silence all the rumors once and for all, and b) be a tremendous statement to the fans of South Florida.

 

Then I would market him like crazy. The downside is minimal. The upside is almost incalcuable. Not only does it help image-wise among the masses, it also sends a message about how serious the team is about contending in 2007 to any free agents that the Marlins might be interested in, but are potentially gun shy about the organization.

 

What happens in 2008 is something different but for 2007, be bold, kill all the rumor-mongering with one fell swoop of the pen, and reap the rewards in stature and ticket sales.

That would be lovely 2003 but when the last time that the marlins have signed one of their "stars" long term before their walk year?

That would be lovely 2003 but when the last time that the marlins have signed one of their "stars" long term before their walk year?

 

Did you see that I said sign him for 2007?

 

He's not a free agent at the end of next season, all we're obligated to do is deal with 2007. If a stadium becomes a reality we may do something else in the future but my contention is with a new manager onboard following the Girardi mess, they won't be doing anything to upset the team while Gonzalez is in his rookie year as manager. He has said he expects Willis here.

 

I'm just saying make it official and shut alot of people up at the same time.

I can't imagine any prospect or even two prospects (within a single organization) outside of our division I would think adequate compensation for DW. Inside the division, more. For example purposes, talk all you want about Homer Bailey or some other can't miss phenom, I suggest the price is a Prince Fielder, a Ryan Zimmerman, a combo of Saito and Martin and a prospect (because let's face it as well as Saito pitched he's 36 years old), you get the idea.

 

All you have to do is look at Travis Bowyer to understand why taking prospects is too risky, regardless their rep, when guys with a year under their belts and a clean bill of health is justifiable. Willis is by any standards still a young guy, he has with any luck at least a decade of service ahead of him. If pitching is coin of the realm, lefty pitchng is platinum.

 

The Marlins have in Dontrelle a premier piece of talent on multiple levels, wherein the sum of the parts is greater than the whole - ability, good health, charisma, team leadership, identification nationally - it isn't just about pitching, it's the entire package. Not getting full value (and I fervently don't want to see him moved) and then some would cause me to reconsider Beinfest's value to the franchise because it isn't often (especially in the pitching-starved environment we see in the 2006-2007 off-season market) you are given a chip to work with like DW. To squander it on anything less than a king's ransom would be seen as total failure.

 

Were I the Marlins I would not wait for the arbitration period and sign him immediately, and while I'm at it, give him a no-trade clause for 2007. They're going to sign him eventually I believe rather than trade him (at least for the 2007 season), but to do it now and contracturally promise to keep him here for all of next season would a) silence all the rumors once and for all, and b) be a tremendous statement to the fans of South Florida.

 

Then I would market him like crazy. The downside is minimal. The upside is almost incalcuable. Not only does it help image-wise among the masses, it also sends a message about how serious the team is about contending in 2007 to any free agents that the Marlins might be interested in, but are potentially gun shy about the organization.

 

What happens in 2008 is something different but for 2007, be bold, kill all the rumor-mongering with one fell swoop of the pen, and reap the rewards in stature and ticket sales.

I'd trade Willis for Martin and Saito Broxton right now. But I doubt the Dodgers would give away their pure gold behind the plate. As for Bowyer, he was never as highly regarded as any of the other guys - and I know you're using it as an analogy of a prospect not panning out, but I don't think we necessarily need a "zim" or "prince" calibre player back. We'd be just fine with a guy with limited MLB experience like Lastings, C. Young, or someone like J. Bruce, as part of a package deal. I don't think you have to worry about Beinfest just dumping him and not taking the King's ransom. He knows what he is doing.

 

I agree with you we should wait atleast 1 season and see where we stand. We have a lot of young arms, and we need to make sure the rotation is covered before we get rid of the high priced commodity. It's eventually going to happen, but I don't know if now is the right time. We could have some Oliver Perez's in our mist, or guys who just drop considerably like Zach Duke. Dontrelle isn't going to be any less value next offseason when it comes down to it.

 

 

Also someone said we don't match up good with the Cardinals. They have a fantastic young CF in Cory Rasmus, and that's square 1 when determining who we can trade with. Can't remember his name, but they have a catcher in Single A that looks to be pretty good too.

I can't imagine any prospect or even two prospects (within a single organization) outside of our division I would think adequate compensation for DW. Inside the division, more. For example purposes, talk all you want about Homer Bailey or some other can't miss phenom, I suggest the price is a Prince Fielder, a Ryan Zimmerman, a combo of Saito and Martin and a prospect (because let's face it as well as Saito pitched he's 36 years old), you get the idea.

 

All you have to do is look at Travis Bowyer to understand why taking prospects is too risky, regardless their rep, when guys with a year under their belts and a clean bill of health is justifiable. Willis is by any standards still a young guy, he has with any luck at least a decade of service ahead of him. If pitching is coin of the realm, lefty pitchng is platinum.

 

The Marlins have in Dontrelle a premier piece of talent on multiple levels, wherein the sum of the parts is greater than the whole - ability, good health, charisma, team leadership, identification nationally - it isn't just about pitching, it's the entire package. Not getting full value (and I fervently don't want to see him moved) and then some would cause me to reconsider Beinfest's value to the franchise because it isn't often (especially in the pitching-starved environment we see in the 2006-2007 off-season market) you are given a chip to work with like DW. To squander it on anything less than a king's ransom would be seen as total failure.

 

Were I the Marlins I would not wait for the arbitration period and sign him immediately, and while I'm at it, give him a no-trade clause for 2007. They're going to sign him eventually I believe rather than trade him (at least for the 2007 season), but to do it now and contracturally promise to keep him here for all of next season would a) silence all the rumors once and for all, and b) be a tremendous statement to the fans of South Florida.

 

Then I would market him like crazy. The downside is minimal. The upside is almost incalcuable. Not only does it help image-wise among the masses, it also sends a message about how serious the team is about contending in 2007 to any free agents that the Marlins might be interested in, but are potentially gun shy about the organization.

 

What happens in 2008 is something different but for 2007, be bold, kill all the rumor-mongering with one fell swoop of the pen, and reap the rewards in stature and ticket sales.

 

I think you were in the minority of people expecting anything from Bowyer.

 

Look at the Beckett trade, those were two "can't miss" prospects that didn't miss. As long as we don't go bargain basement on Dontrelle and get ML ready players now, we'll be fine.

 

However, that is not to suggest I advocate trading Dontrelle, it clearly has to be a bowl us over offer to even make it a consideration.