I'd love for everything to work out perfectly as MarlinsLou lays it out, but defense will be an issue no matter where he is used. Plain and simple. I'd love to be excited by this signing, but I just can't at this point. He is no replacement for Helms. He is a replacement level replacement for Helms. But, like I wrote before, he is a better option than in-house options as a 3B backup and does add some bench depth. Both good things. I just don't think he will be some kind of panacea for our infield bench problems.

 

For some further good cheer, I leave you with some comments from Indian's fans over at the Baseball Think Factory on the signing:

 

"6. Dan Lee Posted: December 29, 2006 at 04:54 PM (#2271072)

 

Heh. Good luck with that, Marlins. Good luck with that.

 

Boone's the worst Indians regular I can recall since, gosh, Felix Fermin? Just an awful, awful ballplayer right now. No range whatsoever moving laterally, no command of the strike zone, no power, no speed, can't even freaking lay down a bunt.

 

I'd have pegged the Marlins as the least likely team to end up with Boone, except maybe Cleveland. There's about eight zillion minor league infielders who can play a mediocre third base, put up a .240/.300/.370 line, and play for the MLB minimum. After all the $327,000 gems Beinfest uncovered last year, this is really a shocking move."

 

..

 

"9. Chattanooga Shoo Choo (LL,CB) Posted: December 29, 2006 at 05:15 PM (#2271084)

 

B-B-But he brings Clutch Hitting?! Clubhouse Presence?! Veteran Leadership?! Everything your young team needs - save for hits, walks, and glovework.

 

Boone's the worst Indians regular I can recall since, gosh, Felix Fermin?

 

El Gato at least had a good glove his first few years here. And he 'n Reggie Jefferson got us Omar Vizquel. I'd vote worst regular since Cory Snyder."

 

..

 

"10. Dan Lee Posted: December 29, 2006 at 05:20 PM (#2271086)

 

I'd vote worst regular since Cory Snyder.

 

Snyder wasn't great, but he had a good glove and could pop the occasional homer. Worst regular since Mark Lewis maybe? By the way, I just now noticed this from the article:

 

He?s also a quality right-handed bat off the bench.

 

By "quality right-handed bat", I assume they mean he buys expensive Louisville Sluggers. Because they can't possibly be trying to pass him off as a good hitter."

Sigh. If their comments actually attacked Boone's role for us, I would care. Look at his LHP splits and not overall line plus his home/away, he's not an everyday player for us which is not going to over-expose him versus righties, and he's going to be playing near exclusive 1B in the field, not 3B. If we're going to criticize him, let's use stats or something tangible that suggests he will not perform against LHP at 1B. Not a bunch of jaded indians fans. He's probably going to do much better getting out of that entirely negative situation with Andy Marte and Kouzmanoff breathing down his neck and into a low pressure environment.

 

Using 2006 rates, starting Jacobs 120 games vs RHP and Boone the rest, you get around a .280/.351/.490 (.841). Position is not a liability even if it's not premier production. They'd hit 25-30 HR and get 90-110 RBI batting 5/6 in the lineup. That's very Richie Sexson, Adrian Gonzalez, or Prince Fielderish 2006 production when it comes down to it, and no one is crying about them. Not saying this situation is anywhere near as solid as those 3 guys, but we can get away with it in 2007 and figure out if Jacobs is a keeper or if Hammer needs to move. We could have done a lot worse. We shouldn't be spoiled cause Wes Helms was just flat out amazing last year. Boone's going to be a solid bench guy.

1st base is the easiest position on the field.

I don't agree with that. I wouldn't call it an easy position. They have to deal with poor throws/stretches and the 3-6-3 double play isn't easy either. I play 1B, it's not an easy position, but of course the infielders I play with can't make the throw in the air half the time , or it has some awkward spin or movement. I'm biased. I think second base would be easier, I don't see anything challenging about the position. And when you say the "field" you mean the infield, I assume.

 

I just knew you were a 1B player from your first post on the subject. Yea, you are biased. LOL No offense intended. Someone else put it about right. There just isn't that much difference between a great 1B and an average 1B. Of the IF positions it is by far the easiest. It's where they hide old catchers before they switch to the AL for DH.

In your defense, played correctly it is an important position. A good glove and flexability make other IFers look better than they really are. Good range to either side can rob alot of potential hits. Besides, you get to shoot the bull with guys on the other team alot. LOL

I don't remember when exactly. But this guy has been mentioned as a possible signing for the fish, and many bashed it. I was one of the few in favor of this. He'll provide a threat against lefties and a clubhouse leader. Aaron is a veteran, and that is all this club needs for now. Our bench is looking solid as of today.

Nice great signing

If the only thing Boone is good for is pinch-hitting or even starting at first base against left handed pitching then this is almost as much of a waste of a roster spot as Reggie Abercrombie (who last time I checked was batting .194 in the woeful PR winter league).

 

That said, perhaps all of us are lacking an understanding of what the front office saw/sees in this signing and how they anticipate using him in 2007. I admit I'm baffled but as Accord says, and rightly so, "In Beinfest We Trust", and unlike last season, one has to assume Fredi Gonzalez was down with the acquisition, or it wouldn't have happened (based on the notion after Beinfest and Girardi's ongoing differences of opinion, Beinfest has alot to prove in 2007 regarding "his" managerial choice and the team's performance).

 

Personally I don't see the need to fill the "veteran presence" roster spot so early, when you (the collective "you") have to know there will be any number of similarly-equipped veteran players who will be available come the middle or end of spring training not because of lack of talent or leadership but because someone younger and better has come along.

 

And not only will they inevitably be available, they will be for less.

 

That said, IBWT.

If he does as well as Helms did last year I will take a 2 week ban.

 

 

Is anyone else worried that this is the big offseason addition?

good signing. people thinking we were actually going to replace the Helminator's production are clueless. He had one of the best bench seasons (if not the best) in Marlin history and in MLB 2006. You arnt replacing that for 1.25M/1yr...if anyone like that even exists out there.

If he does as well as Helms did last year I will take a 2 week ban.

 

 

Is anyone else worried that this is the big offseason addition?

 

No one is going to do as well as the insane season Helms had last year, so I'd say you're safe (unfortunately) there.

 

 

 

P.S. the "unfortunately" refers to duplicating Helms' season

good signing. people thinking we were actually going to replace the Helminator's production are clueless. He had one of the best bench seasons (if not the best) in Marlin history and in MLB 2006. You arnt replacing that for 1.25M/1yr...if anyone like that even exists out there.

 

 

 

Maybe one day you'll construct a post that is void of any name calling. That would be a memorable read.

 

 

No one here suggested we were going to replace Helms in the offseason (although it makes you wonder why we didnt just keep Helms if we were going to pay Boone close to a million and offer Helms 1B if Jacobs tanked).

 

Those who suggested that he wouldnt replicate Helms numbers were not looking for a replacement but merely not about to get all horny for Aaron Boone at 900 K for a year.

if the marlins were in the same situation last year and had to make a choice in who to sign between Helms and Boone I would have much rather have Boone. Helms had a breakthrough year last year ... and never came even close to that before, so dont get spoiled thinking that a replacement (that can actually put up the same numbers) is easily found when in reality it is not, yet at least Boone has the ability to come close to it.

good signing. people thinking we were actually going to replace the Helminator's production are clueless. He had one of the best bench seasons (if not the best) in Marlin history and in MLB 2006. You arnt replacing that for 1.25M/1yr...if anyone like that even exists out there.

 

 

 

Maybe one day you'll construct a post that is void of any name calling. That would be a memorable read.

 

 

No one here suggested we were going to replace Helms in the offseason (although it makes you wonder why we didnt just keep Helms if we were going to pay Boone close to a million and offer Helms 1B if Jacobs tanked).

 

Those who suggested that he wouldnt replicate Helms numbers were not looking for a replacement but merely not about to get all horny for Aaron Boone at 900 K for a year.

 

yes, a few people did...if you go back and read through everything. OK, maybe I should've said 'unrealistic' instead. I post plenty without 'namecalling,' chief....still seething over the Girardi circus?

 

(I would've loved to keep Helms as well, but he wanted to start)

Expecting someone to do what Helms did last season is just not reasonable. I'll bet there is a somewhat significant drop-off in Helms this year with the Phillies. Boone is nothing spectactular, but he's an above average reserve, and I'm happy with the move. I still hope we can lure a starting caliber CF and take a chance on a former closer (Alfonseca is my top choice). I'm not thrilled with this offseason, but with how crazy this market has been, what did you really expect for us to do?

why do the marlins fill the bench first, instead of signing a CF in which we need badly....then they can go sign boone and some others.

Sigh. If their comments actually attacked Boone's role for us, I would care. Look at his LHP splits and not overall line plus his home/away, he's not an everyday player for us which is not going to over-expose him versus righties, and he's going to be playing near exclusive 1B in the field, not 3B. If we're going to criticize him, let's use stats or something tangible that suggests he will not perform against LHP at 1B. Not a bunch of jaded indians fans. He's probably going to do much better getting out of that entirely negative situation with Andy Marte and Kouzmanoff breathing down his neck and into a low pressure environment.

 

Using 2006 rates, starting Jacobs 120 games vs RHP and Boone the rest, you get around a .280/.351/.490 (.841). Position is not a liability even if it's not premier production. They'd hit 25-30 HR and get 90-110 RBI batting 5/6 in the lineup. That's very Richie Sexson, Adrian Gonzalez, or Prince Fielderish 2006 production when it comes down to it, and no one is crying about them. Not saying this situation is anywhere near as solid as those 3 guys, but we can get away with it in 2007 and figure out if Jacobs is a keeper or if Hammer needs to move. We could have done a lot worse. We shouldn't be spoiled cause Wes Helms was just flat out amazing last year. Boone's going to be a solid bench guy.

 

Ok, so we have a veteran that struggles defensively at his main position (3B) playing nearly exclusively at a position he has never played before in the bigs (1B). Ok, I understand 1B is the easiest position on the infield. But I am not expecting anything more than Mike Jacobs level defense or worse at 1B from Boone. And it will probably be the latter.

 

But that is not the big deal, it is his bat. If he is used almost exclusively versus LHP (mainly platooning with Jacobs), Jacobs and Cabrera remain completely healthy all season long, and Gonzalez uses him correctly things could be OK. I just don't assume everything will turn out perfectly. We still have a declining veteran who at best hits LHP decently with some gap power, cannot hit RHP, has subpar defensive skills (getting a player who can field is too much to ask for a Marlins fan) and will be playing almost exclusively a position he has never played in the bigs. And his career line as a PH? .200/.261/.300...

 

And Don ? I think Shamrock must have been talking about people who like this deal and wrote Boone will put up Helms-like numbers. None of the people who haven't been all "In Beinfest We Trust" about this deal has suggested Helms could be replaced or Boone would even come close to being able to replace him.

This is a "meh" signing one way or the other. I wouldnt be suprised if he surpasses expectations and I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt make the team out of ST.

 

The guy has one moment in his career that everyone fawns over. Besides that, he is a mediocre ballplayer. Either way, I dont expect much from the guy, except expect that he will be overpaid.

 

This is a neutral signing, it most likely wont hurt OR help the team.

If the only thing Boone is good for is pinch-hitting or even starting at first base against left handed pitching then this is almost as much of a waste of a roster spot as Reggie Abercrombie (who last time I checked was batting .194 in the woeful PR winter league).

 

That said, perhaps all of us are lacking an understanding of what the front office saw/sees in this signing and how they anticipate using him in 2007. I admit I'm baffled but as Accord says, and rightly so, "In Beinfest We Trust", and unlike last season, one has to assume Fredi Gonzalez was down with the acquisition, or it wouldn't have happened (based on the notion after Beinfest and Girardi's ongoing differences of opinion, Beinfest has alot to prove in 2007 regarding "his" managerial choice and the team's performance).

 

Personally I don't see the need to fill the "veteran presence" roster spot so early, when you (the collective "you") have to know there will be any number of similarly-equipped veteran players who will be available come the middle or end of spring training not because of lack of talent or leadership but because someone younger and better has come along.

 

And not only will they inevitably be available, they will be for less.

 

That said, IBWT.

Boone's roster spot is in no way, shape, or form, as useless as Reggie. Helms only had 278 PA last year. What's the big deal if Boone replaces this with 200+ AB vs lefties, and the rest vs RHP? I'd also question whether there are going to be similar veteran players around in the future, because pickings are slim already and I don't see any cuts on the horizon to anyone definitively better than Boone for the 1B/3B LHP role.

Ok, so we have a veteran that struggles defensively at his main position (3B) playing nearly exclusively at a position he has never played before in the bigs (1B). Ok, I understand 1B is the easiest position on the infield. But I am not expecting anything more than Mike Jacobs level defense or worse at 1B from Boone. And it will probably be the latter.

 

But that is not the big deal, it is his bat. If he is used almost exclusively versus LHP (mainly platooning with Jacobs), Jacobs and Cabrera remain completely healthy all season long, and Gonzalez uses him correctly things could be OK. I just don't assume everything will turn out perfectly. We still have a declining veteran who at best hits LHP decently with some gap power, cannot hit RHP, has subpar defensive skills (getting a player who can field is too much to ask for a Marlins fan) and will be playing almost exclusively a position he has never played in the bigs. And his career line as a PH? .200/.261/.300...

We're just going to have to disagree with the defense. He'll be better than Jacobs or Helms with the glove, which is not really saying much. I have nothing but visual evidence over watching games the past seasons to back that up, but we shall see. As for his role, I guess I just have more confidence than you that he was signed for a specific purpose rather than an all purpose bench reserve type. With two strong RHP hitters on the bench (Amezaga, .350ish OBP/Speed and Borchard .800+ OPS/Power), I do not see Boone being exposed to things he does not do well. PH splits are alarming for sure though.

 

And really, think about where we are with the lineup vs LHP right now. Granted, we don't have a center fielder right now so this is a work in progress and could change very quickly given something to push Cody to RF over Hermida, but if things stay the same, Boone should be leading off. Can't put Hanley first with that slugging, and Boone is going to slug less than Uggla by all indications.

 

1B Aaron Boone .270/.360/.425 (.785)

SS Hanley Ramirez .310/.380/.575 (.955)

3B Miguel Cabrera .325/.430/.560 (.990)

LF Josh Willingham .300/.400/.600 (1.000)

2B Dan Uggla .295/.355/.450 (.800)

CF Cody Ross .250/.300/.550 (.850)

RF Jeremy Hermida .245/.335/.375 (.710)

C Miguel Olivo .260/.285/.430 (.715)

 

I guess it all depends on what you said, it's how the Marlins plan to use him. They can be stupid and expose Boone equally to LHP/RHP in pinch hitting and other roles, and make poor lineup decisions by putting Hanley 1st vs LHP just because he's Hanley and waste his slugging when Boone could adequately get on base - but he could be very good for us if he has a clearly defined role off the bench which is what my hopes are. I'm going to be an optimist on this one until Fredi/Beinfest prove me wrong and have Boone flailing against RHP and causing thought provoking errors at 1B. Spring training really needs to start.

Aaron Boone isnt a leadoff hitter. In the last 3 years he has hit .253/.351/.431. Not to mention, he hits .206 and .208 the second and third time hes seen the pitcher in a game.

 

So you want a below average hitter who is just slightly less horrible against lefties, hasnt ledoff in at least 3 years, and does progressively worse the more he sees a pitcher, leading off and getting the most at bats in the game?

This is a "meh" signing one way or the other. I wouldnt be suprised if he surpasses expectations and I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt make the team out of ST.

 

The guy has one moment in his career that everyone fawns over. Besides that, he is a mediocre ballplayer. Either way, I dont expect much from the guy, except expect that he will be overpaid.

 

This is a neutral signing, it most likely wont hurt OR help the team.

 

im thinking that "one" moment you were talking about were his great couple of years while he played in cincy and was a top 5 third basemen in the league and a sure bet for 20/20 seasons

Aaron Boone isnt a leadoff hitter. In the last 3 years he has hit .253/.351/.431. Not to mention, he hits .206 and .208 the second and third time hes seen the pitcher in a game.

 

So you want a below average hitter who is just slightly less horrible against lefties, hasnt ledoff in at least 3 years, and does progressively worse the more he sees a pitcher, leading off and getting the most at bats in the game?

versus LHP and with what we currently have, yes. He's been a solid .350-.360 OBP vs LHP the last 3 years, even in his decline, which is more than adequate in the spot. I don't want a .550+ slugging vs LHP batting leadoff in the national league where Olivo/C and then a pitcher are in front of Hanley. That's flat out idiotic. Hanley's run production potential in the # 2 spot is worth more than batting him 1st, and dropping Boone to 5th where his more BB-less AVG-lower slugging base stat line is not a serious run production threat compared to the serious OBP production of the 'main 4' hitters in the lineup who would be hitting in front of him. Can't put Cody there because it's all or nothing with him, Hermida isn't going to hit for power more than likely, and Olivo is well, Olivo.

 

The only thing that fixes this problem is if they get a CF who is a better OBP threat than Boone vs LHP without an outrageous .475+ slugging (Alex Sanchez 2003-2005 splits suggest he might fit this description), or you think Hermida can get on base better than Boone vs LHP, or you think Uggla keeps the .360 OBP (2006 numbers) vs LHP and his slugging drops to Boone's level and they obtain a CF (with Cody moving to RF) who is a better run producer then Boone for the 5, thus allowing Boone to move to 6th/7th in the lineup (depending on if you like Boone/Cody batting 6/7).

 

Of the premier CF trade targets out there, all the unlikely but still, BJ Upton fixes this problem by batting 1st, Boone 6. Rocco or Rios solves this by moving Uggla 1, Rocco/Rios 5, Boone 6. Which is all the more reason why we need to target a real CF cause I agree with you, Boone should not be leading off, but given what we have he's literally the best option at this time. Really don't want to get into lineup semantics until the CF issue is resolved, was just trying to make a vague point that Boone isn't worthless as some seem really down on him. He's going to be pretty solid for us if used correctly.

Boone is a bottom of the barrel player - nothing more than that. I find it hard to believe some are excited about him.

When you pick and choose the stat you want to make an argument appear true when it isn't, you can prove anything is true, pigs can fly, Aaron Boone should lead off, anything.

 

Give it a break Lou. This isn't football, basketball or hockey. There's no free substitution in baseball. In order to be anywhere near as effective as you promise, he has to play all day games against lefties only and never bat more than once a game while playing a position he has never played, even for an inning, in his entire major league career.

 

We get it. You like the signing. I'm at worst ambivalent about it. But no matter what there's no big letter S on his chest, the Marlins are not about to restructure their lineup around Aaron Boone. He's a player well into his decline who if used sparingly can possibly add something to the mix, mostly from all accounts as a good clubhouse guy, and as a spot starter or pinch-hitter against lefties, if, and ONLY IF, Jacobs proves to be a total bust-out against them or if Amezaga winds up playing CF again, which is in itself highly doubtful.

 

If Jacobs can hit .250+ against lefties in the first half of the season (his or other health issues aside) Boone will be lucky to see four or five innings work a week and not much more if he isn't traded at mid-season.

 

But first he has to make the team out of spring training. I'd really like to know if he has a guaranteed contract or was signed to a standard MLB contract that allows the team to cut him before March 28th?

When you pick and choose the stat you want to make an argument appear true when it isn't, you can prove anything is true, pigs can fly, Aaron Boone should lead off, anything.

 

Give it a break Lou. This isn't football, basketball or hockey. There's no free substitution in baseball. In order to be anywhere near as effective as you promise, he has to play all day games against lefties only and never bat more than once a game while playing a position he has never played, even for an inning, in his entire major league career.

 

We get it. You like the signing. I'm at worst ambivalent about it. But no matter what there's no big letter S on his chest, the Marlins are not about to restructure their lineup around Aaron Boone. He's a player well into his decline who if used sparingly can possibly add something to the mix, mostly from all accounts as a good clubhouse guy, and as a spot starter or pinch-hitter against lefties, if, and ONLY IF, Jacobs proves to be a total bust-out against them or if Amezaga winds up playing CF again, which is in itself highly doubtful.

 

If Jacobs can hit .250+ against lefties in the first half of the season (his or other health issues aside) Boone will be lucky to see four or five innings work a week and not much more if he isn't traded at mid-season.

 

But first he has to make the team out of spring training. I'd really like to know if he has a guaranteed contract or was signed to a standard MLB contract that allows the team to cut him before March 28th?

Let's start with the bad. First of all, you were the # 1 support of Jacobs last off season when everyone was screaming DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE because of his ex catcherness, previous injuries in the minors, and only a short time at 1B. Now all of a sudden, we're skeptical of an Aaron Boone's transition when a multitude of other players, such as a Nomar, Craig Wilson, Casey Blake, etc, are thrown all over the field and are relatively solid. Defense is not going to be an issue here. It's not even a concern. Hell, Miguel Olivo could play 1B if he had to. The AL MVP cannot play defense. 1B is not a big deal. There is a very small defensive impact compared to every other position of the field. Secondly, I know you are being sarcastic, but it's a far cry to argue his LHP splits versus adding in day games, batting more than once versus same pitcher, plus defense. Don't exaggerate things. Third, it's not restructing the lineup around Boone, it's restructing the lineup around Hanley Ramirez and how he is so awesome he needs to be moved down in the lineup because he can be a run producer, ala Michael Young. I also noted, I hope we obtain a CF that fixes this idea too. And lastly, his competition for the bench spot, in my estimation, is between him, Edgar Gonzalez, Jason Stokes, maybe Robert Andino. He's about as much of a lock as Amezaga. I'll be pretty surprised if it's not a MLB contract. Boone is a shell of who he was in Cincy, but he's not on the scrap heap begging for a job just yet.

 

The only thing I agree with you is, I sure hope Jacobs hits at least .250+ vs LHP also, cause yes, that would severely cut into Boone's playing time. That would be awesome, as we will have found our 1B for the next few years and can put to rest any of the lingering ideas of having to move Hammer to 1B. I'll say that about Hermida too. I hope he hits lefties .250+, cause I don't doubt either of those guys hitting RHP.

Sigh. If their comments actually attacked Boone's role for us, I would care. Look at his LHP splits and not overall line plus his home/away, he's not an everyday player for us which is not going to over-expose him versus righties, and he's going to be playing near exclusive 1B in the field, not 3B. If we're going to criticize him, let's use stats or something tangible that suggests he will not perform against LHP at 1B. Not a bunch of jaded indians fans. He's probably going to do much better getting out of that entirely negative situation with Andy Marte and Kouzmanoff breathing down his neck and into a low pressure environment.

 

Using 2006 rates, starting Jacobs 120 games vs RHP and Boone the rest, you get around a .280/.351/.490 (.841). Position is not a liability even if it's not premier production. They'd hit 25-30 HR and get 90-110 RBI batting 5/6 in the lineup. That's very Richie Sexson, Adrian Gonzalez, or Prince Fielderish 2006 production when it comes down to it, and no one is crying about them. Not saying this situation is anywhere near as solid as those 3 guys, but we can get away with it in 2007 and figure out if Jacobs is a keeper or if Hammer needs to move. We could have done a lot worse. We shouldn't be spoiled cause Wes Helms was just flat out amazing last year. Boone's going to be a solid bench guy.

(getting a player who can field is too much to ask for a Marlins fan)

Yea, we've only been one of the best defensive teams in the majors year in and year out up until last season.

(getting a player who can field is too much to ask for a Marlins fan)

 

Yea, we've only been one of the best defensive teams in the majors year in and year out up until last season.

 

I'm talking about the team now (and for the forseeable future), not in the past. And the addition of Boone does not help the situation.

Why would anyone be excited about this signing?