I live in Orlando, and selfishly, I would love to see the Marlins move up here to Orlando, but I am unsure of how well they would do. Orlando has never been able to even hold a minor league club for more than 6 years. We have GCL leagues that play up here, but that's it.

 

I bet they would do better up here, than they are doing right now in SoFla. I know the Magic are one of the worst in attendance, but the magic didn't win two Titles in 6 years either. Whenever the Magic were in their prime, 1994-1997, you could not find a ticket for a Magic game. I would bet my life, if the Marlins were a contender, and involved in the postseason, the support would be phenomenal. The Magic sell out 17,000 tickets 3 nights a week now, and they are only a .500 ball club.

 

As far as fanbase... there are absolutely no Devil Rays fans up here. I seriously do not know one. We have more Braves fans than anything, and that's because every game is on TV and if you live in North Florida it is quicker to get to Atlanta than Miami. I never get to go to games, because it is just too hard to get down there for a game. I have only been to about 10 or 12 games in about 8 years, and that's probably true for most Orlando, Marlins fans... but I would be willing to bet that all of us have been to at least 40 Magic games throughout our lives, and the Magic are never good anymore (well, this year is still debatable).

 

So, forget all that tourism crap, that guy was talking about. If Miami is a viable location for a Major League Club, then Orlando is as well.

I live in Orlando, and selfishly, I would love to see the Marlins move up here to Orlando, but I am unsure of how well they would do. Orlando has never been able to even hold a minor league club for more than 6 years. We have GCL leagues that play up here, but that's it.

 

I bet they would do better up here, than they are doing right now in SoFla. I know the Magic are one of the worst in attendance, but the magic didn't win two Titles in 6 years either. Whenever the Magic were in their prime, 1994-1997, you could not find a ticket for a Magic game. I would bet my life, if the Marlins were a contender, and involved in the postseason, the support would be phenomenal. The Magic sell out 17,000 tickets 3 nights a week now, and they are only a .500 ball club.

 

As far as fanbase... there are absolutely no Devil Rays fans up here. I seriously do not know one. We have more Braves fans than anything, and that's because every game is on TV and if you live in North Florida it is quicker to get to Atlanta than Miami. I never get to go to games, because it is just too hard to get down there for a game. I have only been to about 10 or 12 games in about 8 years, and that's probably true for most Orlando, Marlins fans... but I would be willing to bet that all of us have been to at least 40 Magic games throughout our lives, and the Magic are never good anymore (well, this year is still debatable).

 

So, forget all that tourism crap, that guy was talking about. If Miami is a viable location for a Major League Club, then Orlando is as well.

I would suggest moving TB to there would make much more sense honestly logically speaking. The markets are next to one another and the trip between tampa to orlando is about an hour and a half at most? It just makes more sense to slide it over. Then again the distance from my house to miami is about the same as orlando to TB and if Orlando is not supporting the drays doesnt that say something of how valid the market is?

Please, instead of ridiculing this possibility, look at the possible implications of such a decision. If you still believe that it is as ludicrous as you do now, post reasons behind this belief.

OK...Ive looked at the implications of this...and its an incredibly stupid idea. First, tourists would never go to night weekend games because theyd be at the parks. Second, youre proposing they put the stadium in the Disney area so thatd it be convenient for people who dont care about the Marlins and inconvenient for locals who might actually support the team. Third, Orlando is a much smaller TV market than Miami-Ft Lauderdale.

 

Finally, using your "logic", kids from all over the country will come to a Marlins game and fall in love with them and become Marlins fans. Theres no way that could happen. Just because you go to a game doesnt mean you fall in love with the team, and even if they did, they couldnt support the Marlins unless they were unfortunate enough to move to the virus known as Orlando.

The Hispanic population IS important, but if they haven't embraced the team like Marlin organization hoped yet, they might never fully embrace it.

 

By the way, the Knights now have 20 victories. The game last night was AMAZING.

 

Go Knights!

 

 

3 more games to go....I think they can win them all. They need to go to the Conference Championship vs. Memphis and then they should get an NCAA at large bid.

The Hispanic population IS important, but if they haven't embraced the team like Marlin organization hoped yet, they might never fully embrace it.

 

By the way, the Knights now have 20 victories. The game last night was AMAZING.

 

Go Knights!

 

 

3 more games to go....I think they can win them all. They need to go to the Conference Championship vs. Memphis and then they should get an NCAA at large bid.

 

What tha . .?

no to orlando. it seems like it's more of a tourist trap than anything else. and because also fan loyalty comes during long periods, not as in love at first sight, seeing a team for a week then never again won't make you love the team. if anything, it will be a faint memory, like seeing cubs games as a kid. trying to lure in the tourists as your main fan base is asking for trouble. they can help as a portion of the excess, but the locals help build the fanbase, as they see them regularly.

 

since orlando is geared towards tourist traps and i don't think it's suitable for locals if not put downtown, i say no to orlando.

I lived in Orlando for 6 years, in and around downtown. If they built a stadium by Disney, I'd rarely go and I love baseball. It's an awful drive to the middle of nowhere. There would be a ballpark, and high priced tourist garbage. It would be incredibly incredibly inconvenient to locals, and it would be hit/miss during tourist season. April attendance would be atrocious. Universal would be "better" since it's only 10-15 minutes off the highway from downtown/civilization and is in the emerging Metrowest area, but as someone mentioned, that's not going to happen. Land is an issue around Universal unless they were to plow strip shopping malls over, plus why's it in their best interest to own a team?

 

Orlando is going to build a new home for the Magic downtown, and UCF is building a new 45,000 seat football stadium that's eventually expandable up to 70k. If they were to put anything in Orlando, it would be to knock down the Citrus Bowl OR the Amway Arena upon completion of the new magic facility and build a duel complex baseball/football (dare I say Soccer as well) stadium so Orlando could actually house a MLB team. This way, they upgrade the Citrus Bowl in the process (which really sucks) and can keep the major college bowl games in the city (not going to use UCF's new stadium). Also, the rednecks could still have their monster truck rallys in the winter/etc, which crazy as it sounds, matters . As for tourists, they could be used to supplement base attendance figures I guess if they finally approve a speed rail along I4 to help people move about without cars, but regardless, tourist commuters are not a fan base. They'd just have to build the stadium in the downtown area. I'm guessing from where I-4 hits the turnpike at farthest, to around Princeton and the hospital/arts complex, and from the executive airport to the citrus bowl on the 408 is the only area where it would be successful. As I said, the Citrus Bowl and Amway sites would both be most realistic. Have to plop that baby off the major highways in the heart of the population. It would have to have a retractable roof too.

 

And this is ignoring the Devil Rays consider Orlando their home turf. Hell, they are playing games there May 15-17 at the Braves spring training facility (which is really nice). They already blackout all Marlins games, even those televised nationally by ESPN, in Orlando if it conflicts with a Rays game. If anyone moves to Orlando, it's going to be the Rays when their stadium lease is done in twenty some odd years. By then, Orlando will HAVE to upgrade the Citrus Bowl and building a duel purpose baseball/football stadium might make sense if they can lure the Rays to the other coast. There are so many problems for a proposed Marlins move here, I can't even rationalize them all together. There are media market problems too with Miami/Ft Lauderdale/WPB being, what 4th? 5th?, behind NY, LA, and DC/N.Va versus whatever Orlando is. Maybe you can include Daytona and Lakeland to bump the figures a little, but still. Just not a good idea.

There will be no knocking down of the Citrus Bowl. It is part of the new "Project Hometown" renovation, when you mentioned they are building a new home for the Magic.

 

I wish everyone would forget Oktoberfest's ideas about tourists fan bases, and attraction area stadiums. These are all ludacris and almost annoying ideas, I am just trying to let you know there is another positive side to pro ball team in Orlando. I have lived here for almost 15 years now, and I still love it. Everyone seems to think that Orlando is incapable of housing the Marlins, and everyone seems to be throwing up righteous defenses about why Miami reigns supreme for an MLB location, I just wonder why a move has been considered for the past 3 years and will continue to be considered for a couple more. You think a ballpark is going to solve the Marlins problems? About as much as Eddie Money will solve on a "Super Saturday."

Because North/Central Florida has done such a great job supporting the Devil Rays that the area is completely justified in receiving a new franchise.

 

I don't know why, but I know that it's far easier to draw people down than it is up, and with that in mind, Orlando would completely cut off a huge markeet.

The Devil Rays pulled in 3,000 more people per game last year than the Marlins, in a much smaller market with a much worse team.

 

The logic that it is easier to draw people from the north, than from the south is just ridiculous. How is that founded at all. I know plenty of people who drive 5 hours to see a series in Atlanta. That argument is worth about as much as the previous tourism base plight.

 

I am not saying at all that the Marlins should move to Orlando, I am just saying that Orlando could could support the Marlins just as well, if not better than Miami does.

Sounds like oktoberfest started a little early this year.

The Devil Rays pulled in 3,000 more people per game last year than the Marlins, in a much smaller market with a much worse team.

 

The logic that it is easier to draw people from the north, than from the south is just ridiculous. How is that founded at all. I know plenty of people who drive 5 hours to see a series in Atlanta. That argument is worth about as much as the previous tourism base plight.

 

I am not saying at all that the Marlins should move to Orlando, I am just saying that Orlando could could support the Marlins just as well, if not better than Miami does.

 

So by your own admission North/Central Florida is a smaller market?

 

So please, do explain why a smaller market should be given a crack at a team when everyone and their mother realizes that the primary problem with the Marlins (at least the fixable one) is the facility.

The Devil Rays pulled in 3,000 more people per game last year than the Marlins, in a much smaller market with a much worse team.

 

The logic that it is easier to draw people from the north, than from the south is just ridiculous. How is that founded at all. I know plenty of people who drive 5 hours to see a series in Atlanta. That argument is worth about as much as the previous tourism base plight.

 

I am not saying at all that the Marlins should move to Orlando, I am just saying that Orlando could could support the Marlins just as well, if not better than Miami does.

 

Well the marlins did have a fire sale last off last offseason. Alot of season ticket holders did not renew. Alot of people picked the team to lose 100 games. This was seen in the first half of the season when they had crappy attendance. After the all star break the marlins only had 4 games with attendance under 10,000. The drays had 10.

In 2005 the marlins averaged 12,000 more people a game than the devil rays. They also averaged 6,000 more in 2004 and 3,000 more in 2003. The rays also have free parking and a dome. If the marlins had that they would blow the drays out of the water. Lastly the drays play about 25% of their home games against the yankees and redsox. Attendance for those games is around 31,000. Attendance for other games is right around 10,000. If the marlins played the redsox and yankees every year they would add alot to their total attendance.

 

For the second part of your comment. The answer is NO. The magic have been ranked bottom 5 in attendance the past 5 seasons. They are the only sports team in a 100 minute radius. The Marlins had been increasing attendance every season until they sold off alot of their players last offseason. Once they get a new stadium, it will be in a better location and probably have a roof. The TV market is also no contest. South Florida is a much larger market than orlando.

The Magic are also consistently in the bottom 8 teams of the NBA. While the Marlins have won 2 titles in 6 years. Going back to the strike of 1994 only one other team has won multiple titles... the Yankees, the largest market in Baseball. While the Magic may consistently be in the bottom 5, the Marlins are consistently in the bottom 2, and they have produced the thing that everyone claims to be the money maker.. championships.

 

When the Magic were a winning team, they sold out every game, no matter who they played. Even now, their attendance has only dropped 1,500 people a game, and they are never contending.

 

I promise you this... put a ball park in downtown Orlando, and the Marlins would pull at least 16,000 a night

Sounds like oktoberfest started a little early this year.

 

 

 

 

 

Im sorry oktoberfest but this post is hilarious.

 

:lol

The Magic are also consistently in the bottom 8 teams of the NBA. While the Marlins have won 2 titles in 6 years. Going back to the strike of 1994 only one other team has won multiple titles... the Yankees, the largest market in Baseball. While the Magic may consistently be in the bottom 5, the Marlins are consistently in the bottom 2, and they have produced the thing that everyone claims to be the money maker.. championships.

 

When the Magic were a winning team, they sold out every game, no matter who they played. Even now, their attendance has only dropped 1,500 people a game, and they are never contending.

 

I promise you this... put a ball park in downtown Orlando, and the Marlins would pull at least 16,000 a night

 

So basically only if the team is winning will orlando support?

 

BTW 16,000 is nothing. In fact if they moved the team there and built them a new stadium 16,000 would be terrible. Marlins were averaging 22,000 in 2005 before they traded away most of their team. A new stadium (with no more fire sales) gives them 25,000+ every night after the new stadium attendance boost wears off.

Orlando has only ONE valid argument for getting an MLB team - total personal income (TPI). Orlando has a higher amount of TPI available to support an MLB franchise than any of the other contenders (unless you consider 3rd franchises in LA or NY a possibility, and most insiders don't). Personally I think the TPI numbers are inflated in Orlando due to the influx of super-rich people who call the Orlando area "home" for tax reasons, but nonetheless it's there (statistically).

 

But if you look at it from any other angle (metro size, TV market, competition, etc.) Orlando does not stack up as well as the other contenders, and it's not even close to Miami. The "tourist" myth has already been debunked so I won't even go there.

 

And the arguments about no D-Ray fans in Orlando? Meaningless. There were no Mariner fans in Portland either when the team sucked for the first 20 years of their existence. But when the team got good and the stadium became great, everyone in town became a Mariners fan.

I'm just tired of driving 3 1/2 hours to see a Marlins game, and finding the stadium with many empty seats. I'm not saying the Marlins should move, or any team should move to Orlando. Everyone is just so adamant that SoFla is the only place the Marlins will succeed, and the fact that the MLB has put pressure on them for years to either get a stadium, in hopes that produces long term numbers or move somewhere else, testifies for a different story. I mean last year, we were the story of Baseball, and in 2004, fresh off a series, with big pieces of the team still in place. I just hope you guys are right and the stadium drastically improves game attendance, because I know the actual baseball of the Marlins can't.

...I am not saying at all that the Marlins should move to Orlando, I am just saying that Orlando could could support the Marlins just as well, if not better than Miami does.

 

I promise you this... put a ball park in downtown Orlando, and the Marlins would pull at least 16,000 a night

Sure, but you don't move cities to draw 16,000 a night. I have to disagree that Orlando does not have anywhere near the potential to support the team better then Miami, unless the Marlins stay with the same salary, lease, weather, and other issues. Then sure. Orlando can compete with one of the most awful situations of any sports franchise in all of sports.

 

An Orlando team would have the top potential to settle into a mid market, and sure I could see that happening in the right situation. However, when they build a stadium in downtown Miami, it will restore confidence in the organization because there won't be a threat the team moves (which has been going on since 1998) and they would start retaining players/increase payroll which would increase fan support. Other positive side effects would be the threat that a game won't be played because of rain and heat during the summer, which will be eliminated because of the roof; an emerging downtown Miami with 12 billion new buildings (to Orlando's credit, downtown is starting to grow up with the 4-5 new high rises, new arena plans, highway extension/construction, and the Solaire but it's not a competition with Miami) that will promote natural growth in the region; huge television contract cause the Marlins always have done well on the tube; and if MLB markets it correctly, they can probably get the Marlins to be baseball's 'hispanic' team and dip into that population base which is vastly under represented at Marlins games imo. I also think MLB will make this happen so they can use a new home park for future WBC, and Miami is a logical destination to have an event of that magnitude. Miami sure is a bandwagon town, so as long as they wouldn't field awful hopeless 95 loss teams a few seasons in a row, they'd be fine.

Once again, I agree with all of this. I just think that this board started throwing up on Orlando's feet without any regard of information. I fully believe the Marlins will stay in Miami for a long time, and hopefully succeed inside of a new stadium. I was just making the point that what is happening with the Marlins right now and in the past 4 years could easily happen here in Orlando. And yes, I know. Why would any franchise want that? Why would a franchise spend millions and millions of dollars to move to a market that would not be that much better, more likely the same? I want to see the Marlins stay in SoFla, and I would be one of the first to call it a dumb move, to head up anywhere, especially Orlando. I am just saying that the lackluster fiscal support in Miami for the Marlins could be acheived in any mid-major market, Orlando included.

Oh yeah...makes total sense....

Why won't this thread GO AWAY. Oh yea, because people like me keep making a comment. no more

Why won't this thread GO AWAY. Oh yea, because people like me keep making a comment. no more

 

haha I was just coming here to post that exact same thing....

 

why wont this thread die already

was this guy here when marlins were talking about moving team??? i think this guy work for disney he having dream of ballpark next to disney i think that wont work orlando is tourist city not like miami

I'm sorry to rehash previously trodded ground, but as a devoted Marlins fan living in Orlando, I want to throw my two cents into the mix. I agree with some of oktoberfest and Bucklin's comments to an extent, but have my own take on this whole issue.

 

There's been a lot of debate back and forth concerning Orlando as a small market uncapable of supporting a Major League franchise, it's a tourist market, etc. I'm in complete agreement with the South Florida Marlins fans here who say Miami-Dade is the 4th largest TV market in the country...for now. Has anyone seen the Impact Florida economic and growth studies from the U of F recently? Our state is projected to essentially double in the next 20 years, and most of that growth is centered around the central to north western part of the state. I would conntend that you folks down there have experienced so much Urban Sprawl over the years that there's not that much more room to grow except density-wise.

 

Central Florida on the other hand has remained somewhat contained and constrained to the I-4 corridor until recent years when expansion to the South (airport area), West (Occoee and Kissimmee) and East (Oviedo and Lake Mary) have greatly increased our population. This was one of the reasons we were awarded the Magic, almost nabbed the Jaguars and had the Devil Rays STOLLEN away from us (more on that to follow). We will hold our own in the TV market before long (heck, we're already home to the Golf Channel!).

 

The tourism factor, I agree, is pointless and not based in logic- tourism dollars can't support any franchise, season tickets and luxury suites/boxes do. However, those of you who have hammered on Orlando for being a torusim town, you are grossly underestimating our economy. Besides the obvious themeparks, we have a exponentially-growing technology and defense base (Lockheed Martinhome of Tiburon, makers of all EA sports games like Madden), a decent financial presence and the #2 University in the State and 7th in the Country in terms of enrollment. UCF is getting a Medical School, which is already attracting bio-tech firms. Besides, our tourism isn't just themeparks- we have the second-largest convention center in the country (if not the world) behind Las Vegas, and are booked solid the next 20 years or so.

 

To chime in on the lack of support for the Magic and Devil Rays up here, I have some theories, and also a feeling that this theory would not pertain to a Major League Baseball team actually in Orlando. 1) Basketball is a sport popular with minorities and the inner city due to its ease of play and low-cost in order to participate. The location of the O-Rena is close to downtown on the other side of I-4 is a low-income, high African American population... would seem tailor made for the community. However, ticket prices to the Magic games are so high (as much as $20 for nosebleed seats), they effectively price themselves out of the attendance and market they're shooting for. FAnd for a middle class of 4 to pay 80 bucks just for admission to watch a marginal basketball team in horrible seats really isn't an option for most. Major League baseball, on the otherhand generally has quite affordable seats in the outifeld and upperdecks.

2) The Devil Rays were STOLLEN from us, and I know that still resonates with a lot of baseball and sports fans who are still living here when that went down. We were neck and neck with Tampa/St. Pete for the expansion team, with Mr. Herrick leading a team of investors with money ready to go and a stadium plan in place. Then, out of left field, the Naimoli group was awarded the team for St. Pete. then-Orlando Mayor Glenda Hood and Orange County Commissioner Linda Chapin didn't fight it, and in fact supported the purchase of the minor league Orlando Cubs to the Devil Rays in an effort to cement Devil Ray support in Orlando. How are we supposed to root for a team that was going to be ours but was awarded to another city?

3) Competitive product, which pertains to both teams. The Orlando Magic have been addled with poor teams ever since Shaq left, due to poor free agent signings (Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady anyone) they bet the entire bank on. The Devil Rays have been a pathetic product from the start, and continue to have poor financial resources comitted with even the new owenership group. While a winning team isn't required to support a franchise, an enterniang product at least is, especially if Central Florida residents are expected to drive 2 hours to watch a game in such a horrible environment (you guys think Joe Robbie is a bad place to watch a game, try Tropicana Field, with some of the worst sightlines and architectural elements ever to disgrace this great game). I think the Marlins' attendance woes can't be entirely blamed on weather- where did all the fans go after the 97 firesale?

 

I don't know, I'd LOVE to have the Marlins here, and would buy season tickets in a heartbeat. As a what if scenario, I'd say neither the Disney area nor downtown would be the best choice for a stadium, but East Orlando. Avalon Park and Waterford Lakes are exploding (with kids and young families, a mjaor target market for baseball), they're expanding Alafaya to the beeline, and there's UCF as already mentioned. I think somewhere on East Colonial would work, past alafay and almost to Bithlo/Christmas due to its proximity to so many major roads (408/417, beeline, 1-95).

 

However, i really don't think they should move as I much as I'd like it to happen. The long-term viability and success of the Marlins hinge on them being successful in South Florida. We don't want to lose them to San Antonio, Virginia or Las Vegas. I just want them to be more inclusive of the non-south Florida Marlins fans- now that they moved to Jupiter for Spring and we lost our radio broadcast contract, it's really hard to follow them and be a fan (especially since the Sun tv broadcasts are blacked out here, and I can't even buy pay per view games). I'd personally like to see a stadium located close to Broward county as they presently are, but closer to 1-95 (maybe even WPalm Beach or Ft Lauderdale)Afterall, they're the FLORIDA Marlins, not the Miami Marlins; moving them to downtown area would make it tougher for me as an Orlando Marlins fan to follow and pop down for a game or two than it already is.

 

Anyways, let's show some Sunshine State unity and get everyone to support this team and keep them here, instead of attacking another area's fan base. I'm confident Orlando will get a major league team eventually, whether it is the marlins, D Rays or an axpansion team.