Back. Rather than start another thread I'm just depositing a bunch of centerfield/outfield related stuff here.

 

As noted above Gathright seems back in business and Costa may play today. In LA, Chone Figgins could be out for 6-8 weeks with not one but two breaks in his fingers, meaning at least in the short term it looks like both Willits and Murphy make the team absent a trade, with Evans (already down) and Gorneault next. Aybar replaces Figgins for awhile. The Red Sox sent David Murphy down.

 

On the San Francisco thing - Jason Ellison. Below are three items, the San Jose Mercury story, baseballcube.com numbers and minorleaguesplits.com which at first glance look to be in error but in fact they aren't, yes he hit .482 with men on and .516 with RISP in 2006 @ Fresno. MLS.com, which usually is pretty tough on translating minor league numbers to equivalent major league ones offers Ellison's .406 ave at Fresno last season to a.365 MLB number. They use an interesting set of formulas to derive these things and no one (at least not me) is suggesting he'd do that well with 500 ABs, but as a trend they're indicating he'd be successful at this level.

 

I know Sham looks at these, and I think Lou does too, I can't remember seeing numbers this high for a ballplayer before, perhaps they have.

 

So, from the San Jose Mercury :

 

Glove gives Ellison a shot

Outfield defense key for Giants; Lowry uneven

By Andrew Baggarly

Mercury News

Article Launched: 03/24/2007 02:02:26 AM PDT

 

MESA, Ariz. - Jason Ellison smacked a double off Chicago Cubs right-hander Kerry Wood to bump his Cactus League average to .447 on Friday, but a diving, full-extension catch in center field might have done the most to help his cause.

 

Even though Todd Linden is proving he can play a credible center field, Ellison's defensive skills are becoming difficult to ignore. And those who know Giants Manager Bruce Bochy say he considers defense a top priority.

 

Outfield defense is particularly vital to the Giants, who just invested $126 million in Barry Zito, a flyball pitcher, and play in a park with ample dimensions. Matt Cain and Noah Lowry are two others who rely on flyball outs. Matt Morris is the Giants' only starting pitcher who got more outs on the ground than in the air last year.

 

Although Barry Bonds is moving better this spring, he will be 43 in July and his range is meager. Scouts are also down on Dave Roberts, who will start as the regular center fielder for the first time in two years; he moved to left field for the San Diego Padres last year after they acquired Mike Cameron.

 

Ellison can play all three spots and his cannon arm would stand out among other Giants outfielders, who don't figure to throw out many runners this season.

 

Ellison is out of minor league options and seemingly squeezed out of the Giants' plans unless they trade Mark Sweeney or an injury befalls one of their position players. The Florida Marlins are among several clubs that have scouted Ellison, hoping he might be available on a waiver claim.

 

But according to a source, interested teams have been told that Ellison won't be made available.

 

The Giants are delaying the decision because an injury could change the dynamic. They don't want to trade Sweeney and then watch Ryan Klesko go down - which is exactly what happened in San Diego at this time a year ago.

 

"We're discussing this every day," Bochy said. "Elly's had a good spring and he can do a lot of things."

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_5512485

 

thebaseballcube.com

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/E/Jason-Ellison.shtml

 

minorleaguesplits.com

 

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/pl/425/425533.html

81 at-bats in '06 were pretty poor. He's had a terrific spring though.

81 at-bats in '06 were pretty poor. He's had a terrific spring though.

 

But consider that it was 81 at bats in 84 games which one could surmise were almost all late inning pinch hit opportunities. of which about eight or so games he started and/or had multiple at bats, the rest appear to be as a pinch-hitter. If I have a chance I'll check out his gamelog.

 

**In June, fifteen games, 32 at bats. July, five games, 13 at bats. September six games, 7 at bats.**

 

 

** edit

Well they've been trying to boost Gathright's stock for a year and a half now. The guy probably won't start 10 games this year in center field for them. Its been told, clearly, that the Royals want to get rid of Gathright. I think Gathright for Petit is more likely than Petit for Maier but that's just my opinion, based off of following the Royals for a few years.

 

We have no argument there.

 

And frankly, it isn't a break the bank price for the Marlins, and certainly better than what was discussed with TB last off-season. Putting Gathright at the top of the lineup really gives Gonzalez a chance at reworking the lineup (and maybe being able to move Miggy down to cleanup where he belongs - perhaps Gathright, Uggla, Jacobs, Cabrera, Ramirez, Willingham...)

 

I'm not a Gathright fan. However, I'm not a Reed or Sanchez fan either. I wouldn't trade Petit for Gathright. Not because I'm so high on Petit, but rather because I'm so down on Gathright. I don't think he would be that much of an upgrade over Reed or Sanchez. Also, Jacobs should never be considered as a number three hitter. He doesn't make enough contact. He is fine hitting fifth or sixth. The only other option at the number three spot other than Cabrera would be Hanley. Although I think Cabrera is the perfect #3 hitter on this team.

RyDawg, just for the record, I tried to suggest most of this is fantasy and it wasn't me who first suggested Petit for Gathright, or started this thread, but once on the table I went along and tacitly see value in a potential trade.

 

A couple of things. First, Gathright made a huge mistake going into 2006, thinking he should bulk up (figuratively) and hit for more power rather doing what he excelled at in the minor leagues. That failed and as things fell apart in Tampa his stock tumbled. Thankfully, he got out of there, went to KC, put his career back together and finished the season (August & Sept) posting some numbers I think most Marlins fans would find acceptable in a lead-off batter. So far this spring he's built upon how he closed out last season.

 

If you're down on Gathright, your choice, no complaints here. I'm not suggesting he the next Henderson or even a 2003 Pierre, but at the right price, serviceable and an upgrade, with little downside if he turns out to be not the long term answer. And I'm not advocating Gathright over Ellison or Willits or whoever is the new CF candidate du jour, he's just a guy being discussed.

 

As for Jacobs I threw that in for one reason which is remembering last season when in fact he did hit immediately ahead of Cabrera and was quite productive. And I do think Cabrera needs protection behind him and have for a long, long time. Among the candidates with the team now, I chose Ramirez. Again, don't like the idea, certainly you have every right to feel differently. I think Cabrera's numbers, as good as they are, get incrementally better with someone better than Willingham or Jacobs hitting behind him. My opinion.

 

Take a look at Ramirez' line from last season, that may alter your thinking.

 

One thing I would disagree with you on is that overall Gathright is not an upgrade over Reed or Sanchez. If you've seen them play this spring you might change your mind. I give Sanchez credit for working really hard on his defense and Reed at being more aggressive at the plate, but neither is as much "a" complete package as Gathright (which is not to say he is "the" complete package if you understand the difference). If Beinfest called and asked me to pick among the three I would go with Gathright every time.

 

But let's be clear, that's as much because of the other two as it JG.

RyDawg, just for the record, I tried to suggest most of this is fantasy and it wasn't me who first suggested Petit for Gathright, or started this thread, but once on the table I went along and tacitly see value in a potential trade.

 

A couple of things. First, Gathright made a huge mistake going into 2006, thinking he should bulk up (figuratively) and hit for more power rather doing what he excelled at in the minor leagues. That failed and as things fell apart in Tampa his stock tumbled. Thankfully, he got out of there, went to KC, put his career back together and finished the season (August & Sept) posting some numbers I think most Marlins fans would find acceptable in a lead-off batter. So far this spring he's built upon how he closed out last season.

 

If you're down on Gathright, your choice, no complaints here. I'm not suggesting he the next Henderson or even a 2003 Pierre, but at the right price, serviceable and an upgrade, with little downside if he turns out to be not the long term answer. And I'm not advocating Gathright over Ellison or Willits or whoever is the new CF candidate du jour, he's just a guy being discussed.

 

As for Jacobs I threw that in for one reason which is remembering last season when in fact he did hit immediately ahead of Cabrera and was quite productive. And I do think Cabrera needs protection behind him and have for a long, long time. Among the candidates with the team now, I chose Ramirez. Again, don't like the idea, certainly you have every right to feel differently. I think Cabrera's numbers, as good as they are, get incrementally better with someone better than Willingham or Jacobs hitting behind him. My opinion.

 

Take a look at Ramirez' line from last season, that may alter your thinking.

 

One thing I would disagree with you on is that overall Gathright is not an upgrade over Reed or Sanchez. If you've seen them play this spring you might change your mind. I give Sanchez credit for working really hard on his defense and Reed at being more aggressive at the plate, but neither is as much "a" complete package as Gathright (which is not to say he is "the" complete package if you understand the difference). If Beinfest called and asked me to pick among the three I would go with Gathright every time.

 

But let's be clear, that's as much because of the other two as it JG.

If Joey was already in camp with us, I would agree with you. My point is that we would have to give up a young pitcher (who may or may not be good) for a stop gap CF. We already have several stop gap options in camp. Joey is probably an upgrade over our in house options but how much more of an upgrade? Is the small difference really worth a young pitching prospect. Maybe Petit can go down to triple A and bring his stock up and he can net us a better player than Gathright. Who knows?

I do agree with you that I would start Gathright over Reed and Sanchez. I just don't want to give up the pitching to get him. Lets give up the pitching (Petit or someone else) for a potential long term answer in CF instead of another stop gap.

Ry, can't argue with that. Like you said, "who knows?". Like so many things with this young team we really won't know for a couple of years what was and wasn't the right move.

 

Ultimately Beinfest pulls the trigger on a deal for someone or he doesn't, and it's not all together in his hands either.

 

There's no right answers here. Just baseball talk.

I think Gathright is a huge upgrade in center field for the Marlins and it's not because of his offense. Looking at Bill James Handbook for 2007 and Gathright had the best range factor of any centerfielder in the majors......better than Jones, Hunter, Matthews....all of them. With Willingham in left field (where he might be the worst left fielder in baseball) and who knows in RF it makes perfect sense to get someone with Gathright's speed to patrol CF. As far as Petit goes...the Marlins have a ton of young starting pitchers that are going to pass him right by. If you can get someone that's going to be a starting major leaguer for Petit at a position of need you do it immediately.

I think Gathright is a huge upgrade in center field for the Marlins and it's not because of his offense. Looking at Bill James Handbook for 2007 and Gathright had the best range factor of any centerfielder in the majors......better than Jones, Hunter, Matthews....all of them. With Willingham in left field (where he might be the worst left fielder in baseball) and who knows in RF it makes perfect sense to get someone with Gathright's speed to patrol CF. As far as Petit goes...the Marlins have a ton of young starting pitchers that are going to pass him right by. If you can get someone that's going to be a starting major leaguer for Petit at a position of need you do it immediately.

if we are doing something on defense alone, Id rather have Eric Reed out there

I think Gathright is a huge upgrade in center field for the Marlins and it's not because of his offense. Looking at Bill James Handbook for 2007 and Gathright had the best range factor of any centerfielder in the majors......better than Jones, Hunter, Matthews....all of them. With Willingham in left field (where he might be the worst left fielder in baseball) and who knows in RF it makes perfect sense to get someone with Gathright's speed to patrol CF. As far as Petit goes...the Marlins have a ton of young starting pitchers that are going to pass him right by. If you can get someone that's going to be a starting major leaguer for Petit at a position of need you do it immediately.

if we are doing something on defense alone, Id rather have Eric Reed out there

I totally agree, Reed can field the position as well as Gathright and we wouldnt have to give up anything for him

I'd give up Scott Olsen for Gathright :mischief :mischief :mischief

Gathright is a much better player on his worst day than Eric Reed will be on his best. I don't consider losing Petit a big deal. The Marlins have many young starters that are going to pass right by him in the next year or two. Not so sure Petit will ever be a decent major league pitcher after what I saw him do last season.

Gathright is a much better player on his worst day than Eric Reed will be on his best. I don't consider losing Petit a big deal. The Marlins have many young starters that are going to pass right by him in the next year or two. Not so sure Petit will ever be a decent major league pitcher after what I saw him do last season.

I wouldnt make that assesment quite just yet, much is yet unknown of both players. Anyone remember Sammy Sosa and Keith Hernandez in their early career. Neither could hit water if they jumped into the Atlantic Ocean. Our own Luis Castillo was horrible in his first couple of seasons

I'd give up Scott Olsen for Gathright :mischief :mischief :mischief

:lol

If the marlins were to continue their interest of Murphy, Petit's outing today against the BoSox, could be very important. Furthermore were we to wish to pry Ellsbury from them, increasing his stock with the Sox today could only be a good thing (note I am not stupid and think Petit can get Ellsbury, but as part of a package, hey you never know).

What the Royals need are some pitching prospects in their minor league system. They have position players of every description coming out their butts but their recent draft classes have been "largely" (there are exceptions) failures when it comes to pitchers.

 

I've been posting all winter about the KC situation and hardly think Andino would be considered any kind of upgrade over Berroa. Petit for Gathright, if we're not using him to get Benitez makes some sense, but frankly Harvey Garcia or Jesus Delgado or someone not in the top five but better ranked than 20+ might be more appropriate. This is Gathright's last option I believe and there's so many guys coming up through the system they either lose/trade him this season or next.

 

As for other outfielders, you aren't going to pry Butler away but Maier is probably the guy you want to target if you're willing to give him half a season to grow into the job. He's defensively ready and had a great AFL offensively.

I like Maier...a lot!, Gotta love Butler also

The Royals would be complete morons to give up Butler. Besides, I think we're better off with Reed. Butler's defensive skills are mediocre and he is not fast. But, man can he hit. He's a freaking hitting machine. The guy hit .331 in AAA last year and he's hitting .419 this spring with 2 home runs and 10 RBIs. He'll be their DH this year, most likely. Perfect role for him. I'd much rather see him as the Royals' DH then Sweeney.

Butler is already back in minor league camp, for what's worth.

Butler is already back in minor league camp, for what's worth.

I didn't hear this. Got a source? Not saying I don't believe you.

 

Nevermind, I found it here. That is absolutely ridiculous. How the hell do you send your best bat in ST this year and in the minors last year straight back to the minors? On top of that, Sweeney had a mediocre year last year. I just don't understand how the Royals think sometimes.

Butler is already back in minor league camp, for what's worth.

I didn't hear this. Got a source? Not saying I don't believe you.

 

Nevermind, I found it here. That is absolutely ridiculous. How the hell do you send your best bat in ST this year and in the minors last year straight back to the minors? On top of that, Sweeney had a mediocre year last year. I just don't understand how the Royals think sometimes.

Give him some at bats in AAA/showcase Sweeney's bat

well lets see...

 

 

maybe because spring training by and large means dick?

If the marlins were to continue their interest of Murphy, Petit's outing today against the BoSox, could be very important. Furthermore were we to wish to pry Ellsbury from them, increasing his stock with the Sox today could only be a good thing (note I am not stupid and think Petit can get Ellsbury, but as part of a package, hey you never know).

makes sense to me

well lets see...

 

 

maybe because spring training by and large means dick?

He was also great in the minors.

well lets see...

 

 

maybe because spring training by and large means dick?

He was also great in the minors.

 

 

So was Jeremy Hermida. :whistle

perhaps they want him to work on something defensively.

 

 

you know to be something more than a DH?

well lets see...

 

 

maybe because spring training by and large means dick?

He was also great in the minors.

 

 

So was Jeremy Hermida. :whistle

ISWYDT!