Trading Yorman Bazardo and Mike Flannery for Ron Villone in 2005. Bazardo has turned out really well for the Tigers sof ar even though he hasnt pitched very many innings he was one of our top prospects and we just gave him away.

Trading Yorman Bazardo and Mike Flannery for Ron Villone in 2005. Bazardo has turned out really well for the Tigers sof ar even though he hasnt pitched very many innings he was one of our top prospects and we just gave him away.

Bazardo wouldn't be doing anything for us quite frankly. There were several prospects ahead of him in the organization at the time.

Trading Yorman Bazardo and Mike Flannery for Ron Villone in 2005. Bazardo has turned out really well for the Tigers sof ar even though he hasnt pitched very many innings he was one of our top prospects and we just gave him away.

Bazardo wouldn't be doing anything for us quite frankly. There were several prospects ahead of him in the organization at the time.

 

That still doesn't take away the fact it was a horrible trade. One thing has nothing to do with the other. IMO.

why do we even care, unless he is like the next Liriano, we make trades for what is right at the moment. At the time we needed Villone!

Trading Yorman Bazardo and Mike Flannery for Ron Villone in 2005. Bazardo has turned out really well for the Tigers sof ar even though he hasnt pitched very many innings he was one of our top prospects and we just gave him away.

this doesn't rank anywhere near his worst moves

 

and Villone was pitching very well when we acquired him (40.1ip 33h 23bb 40k 11er 2.46era)

 

gotta give up something to get something and obviously Yorman had no room in our system

 

he was never a big strikeout guy like he was supposed to be with his stuff

 

he won't be missed

I don't regret making that deal at all. I'd say the Julio, Castillo, and even the Delgado deal are infinitely worse.

And of course the Julio deal.

You win some, you lose some. He's made some stupid moves, but he's also made some really good ones.

I'm not shedding any tears. I think we'll be ok...

yeah trading Bazardo and his 21.60 ERA in the majors at the time was horrible :blink: NOT!!!!

Villone was an asset to the team during 2005, Bazardo struggled from that time until now to get back to the Show, worse trades have been made

As far as I'm concerned, hands down the worst move he's ever made was the Castillo deal.

As far as I'm concerned, hands down the worst move he's ever made was the Castillo deal.

That's a painful one that still hurts!

Castillo, Lee, Penny, Delgado (arguably both ends) the Pudge fiasco, Julio, and sitting on his hands re: centerfield all rank substantially higher on his list of quickly recalled miscues.

Castillo, Lee, Penny, Delgado (arguably both ends) the Pudge fiasco, Julio, and sitting on his hands re: centerfield all rank substantially higher on his list of quickly recalled miscues.

 

both ends of the Delgado deal -- huh? He was a free agent pickup who played very well for a year for not much $$. Plus, we were able to get some prospects for him.

 

Don't see how the "first" end of the Delgado deal was such a bad move for Beinfest.

 

How about the deals Beinfest didn't make; e.g. B.J. Upton for Olsen; Scott Maine (when he was with Balt.), Garrett Olsen and others for A.J. (whom we lost without any compensation).

Castillo, Lee, Penny, Delgado (arguably both ends) the Pudge fiasco, Julio, and sitting on his hands re: centerfield all rank substantially higher on his list of quickly recalled miscues.

 

both ends of the Delgado deal -- huh? He was a free agent pickup who played very well for a year for not much $$. Plus, we were able to get some prospects for him.

 

Don't see how the "first" end of the Delgado deal was such a bad move for Beinfest.

 

How about the deals Beinfest didn't make; e.g. B.J. Upton for Olsen; Scott Maine (when he was with Balt.), Garrett Olsen and others for A.J. (whom we lost without any compensation).

 

It was a bad move on the coming in to backload a contract so absurdly as to compromise any negotiating leverage you have, so even an elite player like Carlos was, coming off an elite year like Carlos was, brings only Mike Jacobs and Yusmeiro Petit in return with cash going the other way.

yeah trading Bazardo and his 21.60 ERA in the majors at the time was horrible :blink: NOT!!!!

Villone was an asset to the team during 2005, Bazardo struggled from that time until now to get back to the Show, worse trades have been made

 

As far as I can remember, that was all done in essentially one appearance on a rainy night. Sure, he looked lost in the majors at the time, but there's nothing to say he couldn't have rebounded. Either way, he took a turn for the worst following his callup and trade and is just now recovering.

I'm not sure how either the Jacobs/Delgado or by extension the Petit for Julio for Kim can determined to be (what was phrased as "infinitely worse" than what the thread starter considered "One of Beinfest's worst moves") bad trades per se.

 

For $14.50 million dollars this is what the Mets have gotten from Carlos Delgado in 2007:

 

BA .255

OBP .329

SLG .455

HR : 22 / 501 ABs / 129 Gms / 1 HR every 22.7 ABs / 8 errors

OPS .774

 

For $380,000 this is what the Marlins have gotten from Mike Jacobs in 2007:

 

BA .271

OBP .327

SLG .468

HR : 16 / 371 ABs / 101 Gms / 1 HR every 23.5 ABs / 5 errors

OPS .795

 

As for the Petit/Julio/Kim series of trades ask yourselves whether you would rather have had Kim or Petit this summer. The answer is obvious.

 

Jacobs is improving defensively and at the plate. Delgado will never be a better defensive player than he has shown 2005-2007.

 

(Both players spent time on the DL in 2007)

 

None of the above is meant to say Mike Jacobs is yet playing at a level that equals Carlos Delgado's career numbers because he isn't, and may never. But looking at 2007 it appears the Marlins certainly got the better of that trade without even including the Petit/Kim factor.

 

And next year Mike Jacobs will cost around $450,000 - Carlos Delgado $16 million. One player is 26, the other 35 years old. For Delgado it is the third consecutive year his OBP/SLG/OPS numbers have declined.

 

For the 2007 trading away Delgado (with 1/2 season's salary thrown in) has worked to the Marlins advantage on the field as well as the pocketbook.

Respectfully Pengy, I have to disagree with a number of things you've said.

 

Jacobs is at this point probably a better first baseman than Delgado. Delgado's numbers are getting worse by the year, he is obviously in decline as he salary escalates.

 

To say the Marlins "got nothing" is just wrong.

 

I understand you don't to compare year to year because it blows your argument out of the water but you don't have to demean the improving performance by ballplayers in order to do so either.

 

I think that the ultimate result of the deal was ten of millions in savings, equivalent performance and probably better defense, plus a pitcher who's 8-3 for the Fish in a losing season.

 

Maybe that wasn't the plan (it was Petit) but that is the result.

 

Here's their respective espn pages, look for yourself, but before you do read again where I say that Mike Jacobs cannot be compared to the career Carlos Delgado has had. I'm not demeaning Delgado to make my point. It's just math.

 

In 2007, for the $$ Jacobs is the better player.

 

delgado = http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3020

 

jacobs = http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6385

Respectfully Pengy, I have to disagree with a number of things you've said.

 

Jacobs is at this point probably a better first baseman than Delgado. Delgado's numbers are getting worse by the year, he is obviously in decline as he salary escalates.

 

To say the Marlins "got nothing" is just wrong.

 

I understand you don't to compare year to year because it blows your argument out of the water but you don't have to demean the improving performance by ballplayers in order to do so either.

 

I think that the ultimate result of the deal was ten of millions in savings, equivalent performance and probably better defense, plus a pitcher who's 8-3 for the Fish in a losing season.

 

Maybe that wasn't the plan (it was Petit) but that is the result.

 

Here's their respective espn pages, look for yourself, but before you do read again where I say that Mike Jacobs cannot be compared to the career Carlos Delgado has had. 'm not demeaning Delgado to make my point. It's just math.

 

In 2007, for the $$$ Jacobs is the better player.

 

delgado = http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3020

 

jacobs = http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6385

I hate that deal not because what either player has not, but because we didn't get Lastings.... that was stupid

let's disregard some of the good deals he's made, for example poseR for Two First Names + an extra G.

I think Jacobs is going to turn into a .850OPS if (and I realize this is a huge if) he can stay healthy or atleast not get a nagging finger or toe injury

I'm not sure how either the Jacobs/Delgado or by extension the Petit for Julio for Kim can determined to be (what was phrased as "infinitely worse" than what the thread starter considered "One of Beinfest's worst moves") bad trades per se.

 

For $14.50 million dollars this is what the Mets have gotten from Carlos Delgado in 2007:

 

BA .255

OBP .329

SLG .455

HR : 22 / 501 ABs / 129 Gms / 1 HR every 22.7 ABs / 8 errors

OPS .774

 

For $380,000 this is what the Marlins have gotten from Mike Jacobs in 2007:

 

BA .271

OBP .327

SLG .468

HR : 16 / 371 ABs / 101 Gms / 1 HR every 23.5 ABs / 5 errors

OPS .795

 

Well, that's not entirely true. The Marlins are paying about $4 million of that, so in fairness, Mike Jacobs is actually costing us $4.5 million or thereabouts.

 

If money needs to be considered to determine "success."

I still feel the DLee trade was the worst

But if you remember Delgado was only making $4 million the first year of his deal with the Marlins and (someone correct me if I'm wrong but) the commissioner's office when ruling on the trade (because it was over $1 million) made the Marlins pay it in a lump sum in 2006.

 

That said, if you want to prorate it over the three years with the Mets not to mention the 4th year that will cost them a minimum of $4 million if his option isn't picked up, either roughly $2.3 million per or $1.75 per over 4. And that was for three players not one. You forget that Petit at the time of was highly ranked. Baseball America had him ranked as the number two prospect in the Mets organization in Nov 2005 AHEAD of Mike Jacobs (4th). So its incorrect to lay $7 million at the feet of Mike Jacobs.

But if you remember Delgado was only making $4 million the first year of his deal with the Marlins and (someone correct me if I'm wrong but) the commissioner's office when ruling on the trade (because it was over $1 million) made the Marlins pay it in a lump sum in 2006.

 

That said, if you want to prorate it over the three years with the Mets not to mention the 4th year that will cost them a minimum of $4 million if his option isn't picked up, either roughly $2.3 million per or $1.75 per over 4. And that was for three players not one. You forget that Petit at the time of was highly ranked. Baseball America had him ranked as the number two prospect in the Mets organization in Nov 2005 AHEAD of Mike Jacobs (4th). So its incorrect to lay $7 million at the feet of Mike Jacobs.

 

No, the Marlins are contributing something to the tune of $11 million total, prorated across the life of the contract. We pay this year, and next to offset the backloading.

 

As for the money, it's completely relevant to throw it all on Mike Jacobs. Larro felt that Petit was eminently expendable so clearly, by actions taken, Jacobs was the prize of the deal. As it stands, I think evaluating a deal's success in terms of bang for the buck is foolish when you trade a player of the stature of a Delgado and get maybe 50 cents on the dollar, maybe.

I believe the published reports say $7 million.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2234421

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/11/23/delgado051123.html

 

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9059180

 

But ever the stickler for accuracy you were not entirely incorrect - according to MLB4U it confirms the above $ 7 million figure BUT you were correct that the payments are staggered - "as part of trade that sent him to NYM, the Marlins pay the Mets a total of 7M in payments of 1M in 2006, 2M in 2007 and 4M in 2008".

 

So that would make the cost (and let's just assume that Jacobs is worth TWICE the other guys - $500k Psomas, $500k Petit, $1 million Jacobs) comparison Carlos Delgado net $12.5 million for same output as Mike Jacobs at $1.38 million or roughly nine times more. And if you wanted to do the same thing next year (2008) Jacobs would be roughly $2.5 million and Delgado $14.5 million.