We don't need A-Rod, we need pitchers that can go past 4 innings.

 

they can go 3 innings for all I care

 

then i guess you're ok with this team not making the playoffs anytime soon.

why do people even talk about it as if it is a real possibility , there is no chance it happens . Yes it would make sense but it will not happen

I wanted to make an official A-Rod thread, but not about the Marlins, I'll talk about it in here though. Does anyone else besides me get the feeling that we are going to see an obscene given to A-Rod? By obscene, I mean like 500 million, 600 million dollars. It is going to be unprecedented I believe. I am already bracing myself for it, but it's going to be sick.

 

Nobody thought he would 252 million last time he was on the market, nobody thought Dice K would get a 50 million dollar posting fee, and I think the 300 million number being thrown around is just too low. I hope I am wrong though.

We don't need A-Rod, we need pitchers that can go past 4 innings.

 

they can go 3 innings for all I care

 

then i guess you're ok with this team not making the playoffs anytime soon.

I'll take a new stadium, more fans, and the franchise staying here and not relocating over the play-offs.

We don't need A-Rod, we need pitchers that can go past 4 innings.

 

they can go 3 innings for all I care

 

then i guess you're ok with this team not making the playoffs anytime soon.

I'll take a new stadium, more fans, and the franchise staying here and not relocating over the play-offs.

 

A-Rod would bring in new fans but not a new stadium. He's not gonna put any money towards it and the politicians would just look at it as the team paying him over 200 million dollars that should have

gone towards the stadium.

I wanted to make an official A-Rod thread, but not about the Marlins, I'll talk about it in here though. Does anyone else besides me get the feeling that we are going to see an obscene given to A-Rod? By obscene, I mean like 500 million, 600 million dollars. It is going to be unprecedented I believe. I am already bracing myself for it, but it's going to be sick.

 

Nobody thought he would 252 million last time he was on the market, nobody thought Dice K would get a 50 million dollar posting fee, and I think the 300 million number being thrown around is just too low. I hope I am wrong though.

 

In truth, I saw the Matsuzaka number. That wasn't a huge surprise. If ARod's deal breaks $350 million, I'll be floored.

I wanted to make an official A-Rod thread, but not about the Marlins, I'll talk about it in here though. Does anyone else besides me get the feeling that we are going to see an obscene given to A-Rod? By obscene, I mean like 500 million, 600 million dollars. It is going to be unprecedented I believe. I am already bracing myself for it, but it's going to be sick.

 

Nobody thought he would 252 million last time he was on the market, nobody thought Dice K would get a 50 million dollar posting fee, and I think the 300 million number being thrown around is just too low. I hope I am wrong though.

 

In truth, I saw the Matsuzaka number. That wasn't a huge surprise. If ARod's deal breaks $350 million, I'll be floored.

 

 

I remember all the media outlets saying how it would be in the 20 million dollar range though. Even a week or so before the reports coming out were that it would be lower than previously though, somewhere around 10-15 million. Maybe you did predict that big of a number, but 50 million was a huge shock to most.

Werent there Marlins in the league leaders in runs last year? I'll spend elsewhere...

Werent there Marlins in the league leaders in runs last year? I'll spend elsewhere...

6th in the NL

Ok, Hypothetically speaking if we were to sign A-Rod who would you like to move out of there current position? In other words Hanley to CF or Miggy to 1b?

I would say Hanley to center, why waste Cabrera's arm at first and Jakes bat on the bench?

Jake would be traded

How about a Jake for Coco Crisp Deal? makes sense to me....If Mike Lowell Leaves the Sox, and Arod doesnt go to the sox, and Jake can play some decent D and Youk will go back to third......................................Nah, ignore it, not gunna happen.

see if the marlins got arod, which wouldnt happen....cabrera would be gone...traded for pitching and a catcher and maybe a CF...it seems like a lot of people here assume that we get arod and cabrera moves to first....i think we should put the whole arod topic to bed because it isnt going to happen at all

Take a look at what economists are saying about the A-Rod situation. Apparantly, they believe the Marlins would gain an even greater profit from signing A-Rod to a near $30 million a year contract than they would be paying him and find it quite realistic for it to happen. The link is below. Your thoughts?

 

http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/19/commentary...tsbiz/index.htm

Take a look at what economists are saying about the A-Rod situation. Apparantly, they believe the Marlins would gain an even greater profit from signing A-Rod to a near $30 million a year contract than they would be paying him and find it quite realistic for it to happen. The link is below. Your thoughts?

 

http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/19/commentary...tsbiz/index.htm

 

Who are the "they" you're referring to when you say "Take a look at what economists are saying about the A-Rod situation." ? Maybe I read it wrong but it was one business consultant who is not identified as an economist speaking in the hypothetical.

 

Here's the pull-out quote regarding the Marlins.

 

"And if good young players there continue to develop, A-Rod might actually help lead the team back into postseason, producing revenue that could be worth between $2 million to $15 million a year. The Yankees have a far better chance of making the playoffs without A-Rod than would the Marlins."

 

This of course ignores the economics of the Marlins stadium lease where every time they open up a section the rent goes up but let's not get off course. What the writer meant to say was that potentially A-Rod could generate net profits (beyond his salary and ancillary costs) of $2-15 million and the Marlins could be bringing as much as $45 million or more than they are today just because A-Rod is on the team. I guess if I wanted to be really creative I could put together a scenario where the team could net that amount if everything went perfectly but there's risk involved - what if A-Rod has a bad year, what if he's injured for an extended period of time?

 

The risk/reward thing just doesn't work here. This is Boras trying to expand the market for his client by saying in effect "Hey if it could work for the Marlins, imagine what he could do with your team!". I love and hate Scott Boras, but I definitely respect his ability and showmanship. P.T. Barnum had nothing on the guy.

 

It's no wonder the front office keeps saying "no thanks" to any hint regarding them and A-Rod through the media. The are being used and in not a flattering way.

 

Oh by the way, I did a Google news search for + "economist" or Dr. or Doctor +Marlins + Alex Rodriguez since the end of the regular season. The results were zero. Try any combination, nada.

 

As far as I can see there are no economists on the record anywhere saying anything about A-Rod and the Marlins.

 

As for Mr. Mahon, he's certainly not an economist, at least from his bio on the Anderson Consulting Group website. He has a degree in Management and another in Civil Engineering, and while it implies he was an accounting background no such degree is listed in his bio. Certainly were he a CPA or a trained economist the firm would have taken the opportunity to say so. If he had a doctorate in economics they would certainly be touting that, it's an impressive credential.

 

That's not to say the guy isn't a bright fellow and professionally competent because obviously he is. But an economist he isn't.

 

Here's the link - http://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/modul...=1&uid=2063

One additional thought.

 

I'm actually not conceptually against the idea of signing ARod but it would 100% mean trading away Cabrera. In effect what you're doing is paying ARod what you'd be paying Cabrera plus a few bucks and at the same time landing an absolute bushel full of talent back for Miggy, making the team instantly competitive and starting a series of trades that could make this team the team to beat in the NL East.

 

But then I slap myself and remember this is all a fantasy. I go back and look at the risk/reward and it doesn't work. Even with Miggy in LA (you take your pick of which team) or New York (Yankees) or Boston. It's a pipedream courtesy of Scott Boras and you have to know he's passing you some good sh*t to toke on.

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

I think thats fair. If they are going to open up the wallet to get Arod, they are going to sign Cabrera. It wouldnt make sense to sign Arod and then have a bunch of rookies around him.

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

I think thats fair. If they are going to open up the wallet to get Arod, they are going to sign Cabrera. It wouldnt make sense to sign Arod and then have a bunch of rookies around him.

 

And I'd say the chances of us getting ARod have to be at no better than 10%, if for no other reason than he is from here, we have tried to trade for him in the past, it's a story that refuses to go away, and the Marlins, uncharacteristically, actually commented on this.

 

Still, long-shot is definitely the operative word.

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

I think thats fair. If they are going to open up the wallet to get Arod, they are going to sign Cabrera. It wouldnt make sense to sign Arod and then have a bunch of rookies around him.

 

And I'd say the chances of us getting ARod have to be at no better than 10%, if for no other reason than he is from here, we have tried to trade for him in the past, it's a story that refuses to go away, and the Marlins, uncharacteristically, actually commented on this.

 

Still, long-shot is definitely the operative word.

 

 

Is it safe to say we would need that $50 million that was going to go towards the orange bowl for a stadium first?

 

Also they could also defer part of the first three years of salary so that way they would be paying the bulk once they are in a new park.

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

I think thats fair. If they are going to open up the wallet to get Arod, they are going to sign Cabrera. It wouldnt make sense to sign Arod and then have a bunch of rookies around him.

 

And I'd say the chances of us getting ARod have to be at no better than 10%, if for no other reason than he is from here, we have tried to trade for him in the past, it's a story that refuses to go away, and the Marlins, uncharacteristically, actually commented on this.

 

Still, long-shot is definitely the operative word.

 

 

Is it safe to say we would need that $50 million that was going to go towards the orange bowl for a stadium first?

 

Also they could also defer part of the first three years of salary so that way they would be paying the bulk once they are in a new park.

 

Well that was a pretty loud argument used by politicians against the Marlins when Delgado signed for $52 mil and we were asking for $60 mil.

 

I think it could go both ways. The Marlins kinda did the ransom thing, really twice, with Lowell and Delgado. It didn't work. Any player moves, at this point, would be independent of the stadium, I'd assume. We couldn't afford this team plus ARod next year without the stadium, though. There'd be absolutely no way you could put an $80 million team on the field without future expected revenues from the stadium, so they are definitely related.

 

I would be reluctant to say that the notion we can afford ARod means we should bridge the funding gap instead, if that's what you were getting at.

 

I think, and it's been my stance forever, that the Marlins can afford substantially more than they claim they can, even in Pro Player, so there is money to spend, and really we could be in on any free agent if we decide to open up the wallet. I also feel that the baseball operations side needs to operate completely independent of the stadium side. Too long we've let the two get intertwined and it's backfired on us tremendously.

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

I think thats fair. If they are going to open up the wallet to get Arod, they are going to sign Cabrera. It wouldnt make sense to sign Arod and then have a bunch of rookies around him.

 

And I'd say the chances of us getting ARod have to be at no better than 10%, if for no other reason than he is from here, we have tried to trade for him in the past, it's a story that refuses to go away, and the Marlins, uncharacteristically, actually commented on this.

 

Still, long-shot is definitely the operative word.

 

 

Is it safe to say we would need that $50 million that was going to go towards the orange bowl for a stadium first?

 

Also they could also defer part of the first three years of salary so that way they would be paying the bulk once they are in a new park.

 

Well that was a pretty loud argument used by politicians against the Marlins when Delgado signed for $52 mil and we were asking for $60 mil.

 

I think it could go both ways. The Marlins kinda did the ransom thing, really twice, with Lowell and Delgado. It didn't work. Any player moves, at this point, would be independent of the stadium, I'd assume. We couldn't afford this team plus ARod next year without the stadium, though. There'd be absolutely no way you could put an $80 million team on the field without future expected revenues from the stadium, so they are definitely related.

 

I would be reluctant to say that the notion we can afford ARod means we should bridge the funding gap instead, if that's what you were getting at.

 

I think, and it's been my stance forever, that the Marlins can afford substantially more than they claim they can, even in Pro Player, so there is money to spend, and really we could be in on any free agent if we decide to open up the wallet. I also feel that the baseball operations side needs to operate completely independent of the stadium side. Too long we've let the two get intertwined and it's backfired on us tremendously.

 

Well lets hope we get the $50 million so this stadium can get built. I doubt Arod would want to sign with a team that only has three years left on its lease...

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

I think thats fair. If they are going to open up the wallet to get Arod, they are going to sign Cabrera. It wouldnt make sense to sign Arod and then have a bunch of rookies around him.

 

And I'd say the chances of us getting ARod have to be at no better than 10%, if for no other reason than he is from here, we have tried to trade for him in the past, it's a story that refuses to go away, and the Marlins, uncharacteristically, actually commented on this.

 

Still, long-shot is definitely the operative word.

 

when did we try to trade for him?

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

I think thats fair. If they are going to open up the wallet to get Arod, they are going to sign Cabrera. It wouldnt make sense to sign Arod and then have a bunch of rookies around him.

 

And I'd say the chances of us getting ARod have to be at no better than 10%, if for no other reason than he is from here, we have tried to trade for him in the past, it's a story that refuses to go away, and the Marlins, uncharacteristically, actually commented on this.

 

Still, long-shot is definitely the operative word.

 

when did we try to trade for him?

 

Before the '04 season when the Mets were making a push for him but before the Yankees.

Adding ARod does not mean Cabrera goes away. It could be taken several ways, but if the Marlins are opening the checkbook again, I'd assume it'd be open for good. ARod's not coming to this team to make it Texas 2.0. He'd want assurances of quality around him, and I'd assume that'd begin and almost certainly end with Miggy.

 

Also, the $2-$15 million refers to playoff revenue. Boras has said that ARod generates between $35 and $45 million annually. Of course, he also noted that ARod's primary value was to teams that own their own broadcasting network (which the Marlins do not) and that the presumption of him making a run at both the all time HR record and all time hit record mean that at the end of his career (which Boras forecasts through the age of 44) his career could be worth up to $1 billion in marketing and media revenue from now to the completion. Which is mind-boggling for sure, but it's certainly not unrealistic.

 

First of all the article, and we are talking about the article, doesn't say a word about "playoff revenue". It simply says revenue. If the author wanted to say playoff revenue, he would have said playoff revenue.

 

Second, as I mentioned, because of the Marlins lease situation, if and when the playoffs come, economically three financially dilutive things happen. One they have to pay more to open every additional section they open, second MLB comes in and takes control of ticketing and takes a big share of playoff revenue and lastly there are all the extraneous costs associated with being in the playoffs that become the participating teams' responsibilities. When you have a situation where the only guy making any serious money here is Huizenga through control of parking (which he increases), rent and concessions, a moderate increase for the Marlins may be the case but to a great degree it's going to be offset by costs.

 

ARod may be worth a billion dollars (marketing-wise) in some markets but this isn't one of them. It's a false argument. Everyone has to understand that. There's no broadcast rights, there's a generally unfriendly media, thinking or even suggesting that here is ridiculous.

 

Lastly (and again I am just playing with the idea hypothetically and don't want to see Miggy moved to make way for ARod, or at all) somewhere along in this thread post-my original comment comes the idea that the return on a Miguel Cabrera trade would be prospects and rookies thus making the team potentially less competitive or no more competitive than it is now. This is a straw man argument. The bumper crop of players in return for a Cabrera could and I submit would include a number of starting major league ballplayers with above average skills who would by themselves improve the team. If not the FO doesn't make the deal and goes on to the next bidder. What Cabrera represents as a trade offering is a rare combination of youth and proven ability. That isn't going to translate into three prospects from AA and a couple of AAA players, or anything akin to that. You put Miggy on the trading block and any number of truly quality players come back your way - it could be two, three or four, it could two starting major league players plus three first rate prospects, it would be an enviable position to be in fielding those offers and playing one off another.

 

So this idea that the team couldn't be improved by acquiring ARod and trading Miggy really is a false one and should be recognized for the folly that it us.

 

It isn't going to happen, this is just a debate where I find myself on one side because it's an interesting position to take, not because I'm in favor of it. I guess people can read in whatever they want to read into what the author wrote, it would be helpful those if it was at least an accurate representation of what he said, no matter how flawed his thinking is. For the sentence to mean the revenue ($2-15 million) were the result of increased playoff revenue that would mean the Marlins were in the playoffs "every" year because the author writes "producing revenue that could be worth between $2 million to $15 million a year".

 

It's the "a year" that makes the interpretation Swift makes false. And with it his argument.

Marlins2003

I feel this 5 pages thread is ridiculous . . . . .

 

But after reading some of your statements, one would think that Loria is Mother Teresa of Calcutta for daring to own this team with such disadvantageous circumstances.