November 10, 200719 yr Sounds like the stadium will absolutely own anything the Marlins will ever do. i dont know about that... tampa bay is a poor mans miami... always has been, always will be. relax guys, were getting the stadium in the next few weeks. keep the faith. Remember, this is coming from a Noles fan
November 10, 200719 yr Sounds like the stadium will absolutely own anything the Marlins will ever do. i dont know about that... tampa bay is a poor mans miami... always has been, always will be. Well, that area they plan to put their stadium (not Tampa Bay since its a body of water) in St Pete is far nicer than anywhere they would consider putting a stadium for tha Marlins.
November 10, 200719 yr http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/10/Southpin...n_the_bay.shtml Rays on the bay? The $450-million project hinges on the sale of Tropicana Field and public financing. By AARON SHAROCKMAN and MARC TOPKIN, Times Staff Writers Published November 10, 2007 ST. PETERSBURG -- The Tampa Bay Rays have developed a bold plan to build a $450-million downtown stadium that would give fans waterfront views and protection from rain. The stadium, to be built on the site of Al Lang Field, would seat about 35,000 and could open as early as 2012. Hitters there would have a chance to send the ball into the bay. Financing is still being worked out, but a primary source would be proceeds of the sale of the Tropicana Field site to a developer who would build a large retail/residential complex there. The Rays also would make a contribution, perhaps as much as $150-million, covering one-third of the cost. The team also would seek legislative approval for $60-million of state money in future sales tax revenue from food, beer and merchandise sales in the new park. The plan faces several hurdles. The city charter requires voter approval of any deal involving a long-term lease of city-owned waterfront property such as Al Lang. The plan also may involve the city selling the Al Lang site to Pinellas County to avoid property taxes; a similar deal was constructed to create a tax shelter for Tropicana Field. That, too, would have to pass voters' muster at a time when government budgets are tight and taxpayers are calling for tax relief. State and city officials declined to discuss the plan. Asked about the stadium plan, Rays principal owner Stuart Sternberg said: "If it can get done, I'm open to it." He declined to comment further. After the St. Petersburg Times broke the story Friday on its Web site, tampabay.com, the Rays called a late-night news conference at which president Matt Silverman confirmed that the team was going forward with the plan. "We are excited about the possibilities of these projects, and the economic benefits that they would bring to our community," Silverman said. "We would certainly involve the public in any process related to this." The new stadium would be open to the elements but could be covered with sail-like material on a cabling system when necessary. Fans or other devices would provide cooling, and some seating areas would have air-conditioning. The stadium would be built on the site of the longtime spring training facility the team is leaving next year. But the new field would be shifted so that balls hit over the rightfield fence would splash into the water, as is the case at the San Francisco Giants' AT&T Park. Site has pros, cons The design is expected to be traditional, with a retro look common among new baseball stadiums. The smaller capacity, about 10,000 less than Tropicana Field's when the team began play there, also reflects a recent trend in ballpark design. The Rays have shown an artist's rendering of the stadium to state and city officials, and likely will have a model when they make a public announcement of their plans, probably in the next month. The Al Lang site would be a tight fit for a major-league stadium, with only a little more than 10 acres available. That's about the same as Fenway Park in Boston and slightly less than AT&T Park in San Francisco. It would leave little or no room for on-site parking. Fans would have to use downtown garages and makeshift lots in the area, and the team would be deprived of a revenue source. Bayshore Drive would be closed and be integrated into the site, perhaps as the outfield warning track. The Rays consider the Al Lang site their top choice for a new stadium for several reasons: Not only could it evolve into a picturesque signature home, but it also would allow the team to get a new stadium without having to fight to get out of its lease at Tropicana Field, which runs through 2027. The lease bars the Rays from moving anywhere without the city's permission, making an in-city move much more feasible than elsewhere in the Tampa Bay area, such as the state Fairgrounds location in eastern Hillsborough County. The city still owes more than $100-million on nearly 18-year-old Tropicana Field, a debt not scheduled to be paid off until 2025. The county also is contributing money through a hotel tax. Though Sternberg's group has spent millions upgrading Tropicana Field since taking over in October 2005, he has also maintained that the team eventually will need a new stadium. As recently as May, he indicated he didn't expect it to happen anytime soon. In July, Major League Baseball president Bob DuPuy said a new stadium was not a top league priority. But, working on their own and in relative secrecy, the Rays have clearly accelerated that timetable. "First and foremost, as Stuart Sternberg has said repeatedly, we will not demand a new stadium," Silverman said. "Secondly, Stuart has said on numerous occasions that Tropicana Field will not be a viable facility by the end of our lease term." A new stadium could become more of a destination and boost the team's attendance, which has consistently ranked among the league's worst. A key to the deal would be the sale of the Tropicana Field and parking lot land. There are grand plans for the mixed-use redevelopment, with talk of an upscale, sophisticated retail and entertainment area that would create numerous jobs combined with affordable workforce housing. The hope is to get a major developer involved. Officials unaware St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Baker has said the city is unlikely to provide additional funding for a new stadium. His position reflects a decline in sentiment nationally for the public to subsidize sports teams. "I know the Rays have looked at a lot of options," Baker said. "And I'm sure they're continuing to look at their options." Al Lang -- formally known as Progress Energy Park -- will be without a tenant starting in 2009 when the Rays move their spring training facilities to Charlotte County. The city is unlikely to seek a replacement team for spring training. The process to build a stadium at the Al Lang site was made easier in August, when the City Council agreed to table a proposal that would have added development protections there. St. Petersburg economic development officials said they wanted more flexibility for the site, but publicly, they never explained why. Rick Mussett, the city's senior economic development official, would not address questions about a possible new stadium on that site this week: "I can't comment about that," he said. The circle of people who are involved in the Rays talks so far is small. Gov. Charlie Crist met privately with team officials on Aug. 17 in St. Petersburg, but he has not commented publicly about the nature of that discussion. He was traveling in Chile on Friday and did not return requests seeking comment. Many local elected leaders -- from county commissioners to City Council members to state legislators -- said they've heard nothing more than rumors regarding a new stadium. If talks are under way, it's not with them. "I have heard it come up from time to time, in the last year," said Pinellas County Commissioner Ken Welch, who said he heard rumors again on Thursday. "But there's no formal talks, as far as I know." "I'd be surprised if it is that far along," said Don Shea, the director of the St. Petersburg Downtown Partnership. "No one has approached me in any way officially about that," said Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey. Fasano, who oversees economic development spending in the Senate, is someone the Rays surely would seek out. Any state money for a new stadium would go through him. He sees it as an uphill battle. "I don't see how anything like that would happen in such a tight budget year," Fasano said. The Florida Marlins have tried and failed to win the extra tax break, despite the support of House Speaker Marco Rubio. The proposal calls for the first $2-million in sales taxes generated by the stadium each year for 30 years to go toward construction and maintenance. Rays executives are leaning toward hiring one of the state's most powerful lobbyists, Brian Ballard, to increase the team's presence in Tallahassee. Could the support of Gov. Crist, who calls St. Petersburg home, put the Rays over the top? "When you have the governor living a few blocks from the stadium that's helpful, but it's a tough road," said Sen. Charlie Justice, D-St. Petersburg, who admits he has heard rumors about the Al Lang site. Scant support Sen. Dennis Jones, R-Treasure Island, said he opposes using taxpayer dollars to help build a new stadium in St. Petersburg. "Obviously, I can't imagine anybody in this period of time, why anyone would have any serious interest in using taxpayers' money to build a stadium when we're trying to fix a property tax problem and an insurance problem," Jones said. "Right now, the taxpayers are more concerned about making a mortgage and putting groceries on the table than putting money into a sports complex." Major League Baseball officials are aware of the Rays' interest in a new stadium but are not party to the proposed plan. MLB officials have helped teams lobby for funding, including for several years in South Florida without success, but do not contribute financially. The Rays, clearly, had hoped to keep news of the stadium quiet until their official announcement next month. They hastily arranged for a 9 p.m. news conference Friday at Tropicana Field at which Silverman spoke for 27 seconds and took no questions. Staff writers Steve Bousquet and Jennifer Liberto contributed to this report. Key points of the proposal 35,000-seat, open air stadium Retractable covering stops rain Sale of the Trop helps funding No new city tax money, but possible sales tax revenues Needs city voter approval [skip O'Rourke | Times] Progress Energy Park sits on St. Petersburg's downtown waterfront, just to the south of the Mahaffey Theater, seen at lower left. Tropicana Field, the Rays' current home, can be seen in the background. In a way, it makes sense. The location is already being used for playing baseball. So they'd simply reorient the usage to a higher professional level. No need to clear up a different tract of land for the same purpose. I wonder if the ordinary folk will continue to use what's now Al Lang after it has been converted, though.
November 11, 200718 yr Make the playoffs first and then ask for a damn stadium. if anything we deserve it more than they do.
November 11, 200718 yr Make the playoffs first and then ask for a damn stadium. if anything we deserve it more than they do. That's the logic that's gotten us where we are. Winning does not bring entitlement.
November 11, 200718 yr I guarantee you the Rays get State help. The only reason the Marlins haven't is because everybody's pussyfooting around with the plans. If they finalized the plans, the State would gladly approve the sales tax rebate. That's why the Magic got the rebate this past year, because they had concrete, finalized plans.If that's code for: "The Marlins haven't gotten state money for a stadium because A) Huizenga is blocking his free money being taken away B) The North hates the tri-counties even though we fund the majority of the state's projects since we pay the most taxes" Then you're dead on.
November 11, 200718 yr The State will never give them any money. No South Florida legislator would consider voting in their favor after seeing that the Marlins got nothing. Besides, money is realy tight in the State right now.
November 11, 200718 yr It would be crimminal if the state legislature granted funding to the Rays after rejecting the Marlins so many times
November 12, 200718 yr The State will never give them any money. No South Florida legislator would consider voting in their favor after seeing that the Marlins got nothing. Besides, money is realy tight in the State right now. Few South Florida legislators have voted for the Marlins . I would be curious if any democrats from Palm Beach , Broward , or Dade have voted to help the Marlins ( i single out so fla dems because to my knowledge Marlins biggest supporters have been dade Reps)
November 12, 200718 yr I thought their lease was until 2027. I dont think they will be getting out of it anytime soon.
November 12, 200718 yr http://blogs.tampabay.com/breakingnews/200...planning-w.html A day after changing their look, the Rays management announced they may be changing venues, too. The plan is to sell Tropicana Field, buy waterfront Al Lang Field (their spring training facility, which they are leaving after next year), and building a 35,000-seat open-air stadium with a retractable rain shield (not an actual roof). The stadium will cost $450 million. Stu Sternberg is contributing at least $150 million PLUS a long-term lease, and the sale of Tropicana Field for redevelopment will cover much of the rest. They will seek the state's $60-million sales tax rebate next year. They also need to get the approval of the voters of St. Petersburg, as they always need to when building on city-owned public property regardless of whether it costs the taxpayers anything. Wouldn't it be hilarious if the Rays ended up with a new stadium before the Marlins did? Tropicana was a new stadium when the Rays moved in and still a state of the art ballpark. If Tampa is stupid enough to spend money to buy the Rays ANOTHER stadium maybe the Marlins should move to Tampa!
November 12, 200718 yr Tropicana was a new stadium when the Rays moved in and still a state of the art ballpark. If Tampa is stupid enough to spend money to buy the Rays ANOTHER stadium maybe the Marlins should move to Tampa! This must be pure sarcasm. I didn't think it was correct so I looked it up in an early program I got from a game I went to there. It was originally built in 1990 for $138 mil and called the Florida Suncoast Dome. In 1993 it was renamed the Thunderdome and hosted the then-new Tampa Bay Lightning of the NHL. It was also the home of the Arena Football League Storm. In October of 1996 it was closed for 17 months to get a $85 mil facelift and reopened as Tropicana Field. I remember it as being a leaky, uncomfortable, piece of crap back then. And I seem to remember players saying it was the very worst place to play a game. It is alot better these days with the state of the art video displays, new artificial turf, and interactive things going on, but it is still nothing compared to almost every other ball park in MLB.
November 12, 200718 yr What the hell is a retractable rain shield? Is that like a giant umbrella? Just a plastic or fabric cover that's pulled out over the field. But I myself want to see what they mean by that. Can't wait for concept sketches. A sail-like material that is on a cable system. Nothing new with that. Far from it, actually. There is plenty of proof the Roman Empire did basically the same thing to the Collisium. For reference I use the History Channel and I believe it was the Building An Empire series. I could be wrong about the series because I have watched so many different ones on their construction methods, which many are still used today. Okay. Enough with the history lesson. But there may be a quiz later.
November 12, 200718 yr According to Sunday's PBP, there are drawbacks to the plan. The main one being it is only on 10 acres of land which means very little if any on site parking. Most of the financing has yet to be worked out but alot of the costs will come from the sale of Tropicana Field. It goes to a vote only because it is public land that is to be used. St Pete's mayor says the city is unlikely to supply any funding.
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup OB site and area is awesome. That area of St Pete, where you can walk a block to all sorts of bars and restaurants sucks compared to what fans will be able to do around the OB site. The middle three are more reasonable.
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup Fans or other devices would provide cooling, and some seating areas would have air-conditioning. I lol @ air conditioning being a requirement for a baseball park though.
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup OB site and area is awesome. That area of St Pete, where you can walk a block to all sorts of bars and restaurants sucks compared to what fans will be able to do around the OB site. The middle three are more reasonable. What's the population of St. Petersburg? 250k? And it's not like Miami where the city proper is tiny compared to the rest of the metro area. St. Pete is nearly 5 times larger than the city of Miami proper and still has nearly half the population. The Rays should have never moved to St. Pete in the first place. Downtown Tampa is where they SHOULD be in order to draw the largest amount of fans. It's the urban (and financial) core of the area. Oh and there is no chance in hell a neighborhood less than a mile from the urban core can be transformed into a Gas Lamp-type district. Apparently what happened in San Diego and Denver was just a bunch of lies. :notworthy
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup OB site and area is awesome. That area of St Pete, where you can walk a block to all sorts of bars and restaurants sucks compared to what fans will be able to do around the OB site. The middle three are more reasonable. What's the population of St. Petersburg? 250k? And it's not like Miami where the city proper is tiny compared to the rest of the metro area. St. Pete is nearly 5 times larger than the city of Miami proper and still has nearly half the population. The Rays should have never moved to St. Pete in the first place. Downtown Tampa is where they SHOULD be in order to draw the largest amount of fans. It's the urban (and financial) core of the area. Oh and there is no chance in hell a neighborhood less than a mile from the urban core can be transformed into a Gas Lamp-type district. Apparently what happened in San Diego and Denver was just a bunch of lies. :notworthy Ive been one that has always said the OB isnt so bad as long as they can do what they did in San Diego, soooooooooo, uh huh, the bow down face is def necessary for your own post. My point is simply that right now, as far as atmosphere, the St Pete site offers a great atmosphere around the park immediately. The original post didnt exactly make it clear what your problem with St Pete was. St Pete can work fine.
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup OB site and area is awesome. That area of St Pete, where you can walk a block to all sorts of bars and restaurants sucks compared to what fans will be able to do around the OB site. The middle three are more reasonable. What will "fans be able to do around the OB site"? Please enlighten me. There is nothing to do around that area, and believe me, you do not want to be "walking around" the OB after a game (last year, when I was walking around the OB after a night football game, I saw no less than 2 different guys walking around carrying baseball bats...not a very appealing sign of a friendly neighborhood). There are no bars/restaurants in walking distance. And, the parking situation (which I would presume would be more ample, but who knows) is an absolute joke. If I was Loria, I would be objecting to the OB site too. I'd rather have it there than in San Antonio, but the OB is worse than the Miami Arena site.
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup OB site and area is awesome. That area of St Pete, where you can walk a block to all sorts of bars and restaurants sucks compared to what fans will be able to do around the OB site. The middle three are more reasonable. What will "fans be able to do around the OB site"? Please enlighten me. There is nothing to do around that area, and believe me, you do not want to be "walking around" the OB after a game (last year, when I was walking around the OB after a night football game, I saw no less than 2 different guys walking around carrying baseball bats...not a very appealing sign of a friendly neighborhood). There are no bars/restaurants in walking distance. And, the parking situation (which I would presume would be more ample, but who knows) is an absolute joke. If I was Loria, I would be objecting to the OB site too. I'd rather have it there than in San Antonio, but the OB is worse than the Miami Arena site. Huh, me? I was being sarcastic.
November 12, 200718 yr If we build at the Orange Bowl we won't top this. That's for sure. The Marlins should move into Tropicana. Aside from the view... -No AC -Bad parking situation (and people complain about the OB) -Downtown St. Pete is not suited to handle the traffic of 35k people in 7-8k cars -No mass transit access -It's in St. Petersburg Yep. OB can't top that! :thumbup OB site and area is awesome. That area of St Pete, where you can walk a block to all sorts of bars and restaurants sucks compared to what fans will be able to do around the OB site. The middle three are more reasonable. What will "fans be able to do around the OB site"? Please enlighten me. There is nothing to do around that area, and believe me, you do not want to be "walking around" the OB after a game (last year, when I was walking around the OB after a night football game, I saw no less than 2 different guys walking around carrying baseball bats...not a very appealing sign of a friendly neighborhood). There are no bars/restaurants in walking distance. And, the parking situation (which I would presume would be more ample, but who knows) is an absolute joke. If I was Loria, I would be objecting to the OB site too. I'd rather have it there than in San Antonio, but the OB is worse than the Miami Arena site. Huh, me? I was being sarcastic. I am unable to tell forum sarcasm from a bona-fide opinion unless it contains the obligatory "smiley wink." So, nm.
November 12, 200718 yr Ah, sorry, I just figured that comment was ridiculous enough to be obvious. Plus I called the middle three arguments he posted reasonable, so then the bottom one wouldnt qualify as reasonable.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.