I can wait to see another reincarnation of Mark Redman. 6'9' of slowballing junk getting hit all over the place.

 

Redman had one real solid year with us...

 

 

Wild Card that post is not even worth the attention! Redman and Willis were two of the BIG reasons we even made it to the post season. Willis won like 8 of his very first decisions and during that time frame Redman was successful in all his starts. He even kept us in most games which is what average pitchers are suppose to do. Many wins in 03 were cause of these guys. Wish I can find a way to compile those stats from that year, anyone care to help?

 

 

I guess we get statements like this from bandwagon fans that don't follow the season but choose to write their opinions based upon post season performances. Maybe next time you should actually follow the WHOLE SEASON that way you don't look stupid my friend.

 

 

Why would you call someone stupid for posting their opinion? If you disagree w/ a post, then do so. State why you disagree and leave it at that. Heck, stooping to namecalling is even more pathetic than what Wild Card did. I guess this is what we get when we have adolescents posting on this site. :nono

 

 

The post was great until you contradicted yourself by also insulting, I guess you are an adolescent. I was agreeing with wild card not bashing him. Reading comprehension my friend.

Hendrickson is a Rays reject.

Yeah but so was Doug Waechter, and looks what he's done for us.

I can wait to see another reincarnation of Mark Redman. 6'9' of slowballing junk getting hit all over the place.

 

Redman had one real solid year with us...

 

 

Wild Card that post is not even worth the attention! Redman and Willis were two of the BIG reasons we even made it to the post season. Willis won like 8 of his very first decisions and during that time frame Redman was successful in all his starts. He even kept us in most games which is what average pitchers are suppose to do. Many wins in 03 were cause of these guys. Wish I can find a way to compile those stats from that year, anyone care to help?

 

 

I guess we get statements like this from bandwagon fans that don't follow the season but choose to write their opinions based upon post season performances. Maybe next time you should actually follow the WHOLE SEASON that way you don't look stupid my friend.

 

 

Why would you call someone stupid for posting their opinion? If you disagree w/ a post, then do so. State why you disagree and leave it at that. Heck, stooping to namecalling is even more pathetic than what Wild Card did. I guess this is what we get when we have adolescents posting on this site. :nono

 

 

The post was great until you contradicted yourself by also insulting, I guess you are an adolescent. I was agreeing with wild card not bashing him. Reading comprehension my friend.

 

 

You called someone stupid for posting, didn't you? That is my concern. If calling an individual stupid is your stating theircase, then what does that say of you? Did I misread that? That is pretty low. Wouldn't you agree? No need to answer. You seem pretty smart even though you may not want to admit you may have gone a bit over the line.

I'm not here trying to look good. As a fairly new member, I often see how the individuals that have been on this board for a long time seem to have a rather elitist attitude toward any new members. Whenever someone tries to participate in the discussions, simple baseball discussions for the regular guy, the newer members get eaten alive because they make a statement.

 

I, as well as many newer members, come to this forum b/c the real Florida Marlins site is dead. Then when they put a post, all the older members w/ the Doctorate degrees in stats and Marlins History belittle the newer members by namecalling or calling them bandwagon fans.

 

How does the forum expect to grow if individuals trying to enter get devoured for making simple statements and trying to just talk baseball. People graduate from school thinking the days of writing bibliographies and supporting arguments are behind them. Its simply baseball. Casual baseball.

 

That is what is upsetting. I try to hang out and participate but constantly see newer members pushed away by this arrogance. If I seem pompous, its simply that it gets old to see this happen over and over again.

 

If my defense of other members seems pompous, so be it. I really am not here to gain anybody's favor. I just like to stand up for those average fans, not the elitists, who want to keep things simple and talk Marlins baseball.

I find that troubling since most of your posts are diatribes about our membership, rather than "talking baseball." This is one of the most laid back MLB fansites so perhaps you need to re-evaluate your attitude.

 

Just because some of our members take angles toward the game that might be different than yours (statistical analysis), you don't have the right to be smug towards them.

 

try sons of sam horn You can't even register to be a member on that site.

I find that troubling since most of your posts are diatribes about our membership, rather than "talking baseball." This is one of the most laid back MLB fansites so perhaps you need to re-evaluate your attitude.

 

Just because some of our members take angles toward the game that might be different than yours (statistical analysis), you don't have the right to be smug towards them.

 

Now that is a bit far fetched, Penguino. MOST? Take a look at my posts. I just did. I would have to disagree w/ you there. Some are. I agree. But a very few. C'mon. No need to exaggerate it that much.

"...bandwagon fans that don't follow the season but choose to write their opinions based upon post season performances. Maybe next time you should actually follow the WHOLE SEASON that way you don't look stupid my friend."

 

"...I don't see how that pompous attitude is making you look any better."

 

"...stooping to namecalling is even more pathetic than what Wild Card did."

 

"...your posts are diatribes ..."

 

and several more.

 

We've just gone through an upheaval here, regardless of who is at fault and who called who what first, we aren't going to have a site at all if we keep canibalizing our young (in the figurative sense, new posters) and driving them away. Some of us have been here a long time and some not.

 

When people post here they ought be able to do so without being flamed for something relatively minor. I often write lengthy posts as is my choice, knowing that if someone wants to attack one of the eight points I'm making I'm leaving myself vulnerable to attack. But such is life on messageboards everywhere. And if I posted every time I thought someone was wrong this would be a full-time job. There's something to be said for discretion. Does that post rise to the level where I feel I have to respond or take the bait?

 

This is a time where we need to rebuild our base here and we're not going to do it driving every newbie away.

I agree, but I don't feel we need to be rebuilding with those that are frequently criticizing our membership every chance they get. After all it was Panthino who was flaming over a minor issue. This "holier than thou" attitude is unwelcomed and is contributing to what he takes reservations with.

 

Pengie, why don't you give the guy a chance to get his feet wet, make a few mistakes, figure where he fits in and generally give him and others a break?

 

Is it really that important who started what when?

Hendrickson is a Rays reject.

Yeah but so was Doug Waechter, and looks what he's done for us.

Nothing yet. But the difference is that Doug Waechter is a 26-year-old reject while Hendrickson is a 33-year-old reject.

(I feel compelled to point out this is a rhetorical question but) Would you rather pay Jason Jennings $4 million as the Astros just did or Hendrickson $1.5 million?

 

from ESPN, Jennings went "...2-9 with a 6.45 ERA in 19 appearances with the Astros last year before going down with a torn flexor tendon in his right elbow. He underwent surgery in late August to repair the injury." He's "expected" to be ready for Opening Day.

 

Looking at their numbers which are not that different, I come away thinking the marlins got the better of the two deals.

I can wait to see another reincarnation of Mark Redman. 6'9' of slowballing junk getting hit all over the place.

 

Redman had one real solid year with us...

 

 

Wild Card that post is not even worth the attention! Redman and Willis were two of the BIG reasons we even made it to the post season. Willis won like 8 of his very first decisions and during that time frame Redman was successful in all his starts. He even kept us in most games which is what average pitchers are suppose to do. Many wins in 03 were cause of these guys. Wish I can find a way to compile those stats from that year, anyone care to help?

 

 

I guess we get statements like this from bandwagon fans that don't follow the season but choose to write their opinions based upon post season performances. Maybe next time you should actually follow the WHOLE SEASON that way you don't look stupid my friend.

 

 

Why would you call someone stupid for posting their opinion? If you disagree w/ a post, then do so. State why you disagree and leave it at that. Heck, stooping to namecalling is even more pathetic than what Wild Card did. I guess this is what we get when we have adolescents posting on this site. :nono

OK, so I did not see until this morning that my personal view of Redman made such an issue. Don't like being called a bandwagon fan or stupid, but it really supports that you are clueless on both counts and probably many others. It is an obvious flaw and I am sensitive that you are probably being treated for it. Now, for the future, please disagree as you wish, and since Redman has survived in the league for years there are others who think he has value. I just did not like to see him in clutch situations against good teams who would wait out his changeup and then let loose on his 87 mph fastball. Hendrickson played on a better team last year than the Marlins and did not do very well. This is just a signing and nothing more. I just do not feel this is a big positive, but nothing I said in a one sentence remark should warrant being called names.

 

Personally, I would hope I am wrong on any criticism of any player we get because I want them all to hit over 300 and win most of their games. When they go out on the field in a Marlin uniform they will get my full support.

In this case I think Panthino's comments were fine. He was just defending anotherrealfan's right to make the comment that Hendrickson stinks and will be another Mark Redman, when The_Punisher overreacted a bit and called it a stupid comment. It's fine to think Redman's no good, although he did have a good season with the Marlins, as Wildcard noted.

 

Relatively harmless couple of posts. But it's Punisher who jumped on the Redman comment, not Panthino.

 

But you're always going to find different personalities on a site like this Panthino, just have to get used to who's who. Everyone's a little different.

 

Let's move on.

I agree, but I don't feel we need to be rebuilding with those that are frequently criticizing our membership every chance they get. After all it was Panthino who was flaming over a minor issue. This "holier than thou" attitude is unwelcomed and is contributing to what he takes reservations with.

 

 

In YOUR opinion it is a minor issue. I have to disagree there. It is minor if you have as many posts as you do. If a new member posts and is then attacked by being called stupid or a bandwagon fan, it is enough to drive that person away. This is the member I am speaking for.

 

Penguino, maybe in your long time here you fail to see the harm in comments such as these. I can't honestly understand how you can disagree w/ me.

 

Let me put it another way. A new student enters a High School during senior year. Most of the students have been together all through High School. The new students speaks up and is criticized by a couple of the "older" students. Do you think that individual is gonna want to speak up in the future?

 

Well, it happens all the time on this site with the "older" posters. You may not even realize how many potential fans are being driven away by this. I try to point it out when it happens and then this happens. I get attacked. Am I doing something wrong by pointing out what is going on here?

(I feel compelled to point out this is a rhetorical question but) Would you rather pay Jason Jennings $4 million as the Astros just did or Hendrickson $1.5 million?

 

from ESPN, Jennings went "...2-9 with a 6.45 ERA in 19 appearances with the Astros last year before going down with a torn flexor tendon in his right elbow. He underwent surgery in late August to repair the injury." He's "expected" to be ready for Opening Day.

 

Looking at their numbers which are not that different, I come away thinking the marlins got the better of the two deals.

 

 

I would absolutely love to have Jennings on this staff, but not for $4 million. Might as well throw 1.5 at Hendrickson to hold the fort this year.

Once again another thread goes to sh*t b/c people think they have bigger dicks than everyone else. Why do you guys always insist on arguing in EVERY thread. FFS you would think everyone on this board was rooting for a different team.

:banghead

Back on the topic at hand..........Rotoworld believes that Olsen, Mitre, and Hendrickson are locks for the rotation, Miller is a "strong favorite," and the 5th spot is up for grabs between Vanden Hurk, Nolasco, and Seddon.

 

 

Marlins signed LHP Mark Hendrickson, who had been with the Dodgers, to a one-year, $1.5 million contract. He can make an extra $500,000 in incentives. The Marlins needed to add at least one innings-eater, and Hendrickson will serve well enough. The 33-year-old was 4-8 with a 5.21 ERA and a 92/29 K/BB ratio in 122 2/3 innings for the Dodgers last year. He'll likely join Scott Olsen and Sergio Mitre in Florida's rotation. Andrew Miller would be the heavy favorite for another spot, leaving one opening for Rick VandenHurk, Ricky Nolasco or Chris Seddon. Anibal Sanchez and Chris Volstad could enter the picture by May or June.

That's 1.5 million that could have been used on Cabrera

If anything, I was thrilled about the signing, seriously,only because it represented some new news about the team. We, as marlin fans, are stuck with getting excited about mediocre players and signings, but that is the way it is. Just look back at the hot stove league discussions while we were chasing Delgado-that was exciting. This is what we are left with and we embrace it because it is all we have. AND each other.

That's 1.5 million that could have been used on Cabrera

That only leaves a $198.5 million deficit after he becomes a free agent.

 

 

Yep!

 

We could have collected cans or something

A lot of you are missing the point with this signing in my opinion. You're lamenting about how he sucks and how he is a rays reject and how they should have used the money for other uses.

 

He's a bridge to our minor league pitching. Beinfest has obviously determined he needs disposable innings at the MLB level for at least the first 3-4 months in the season (I agree), and now he has that. Hendrickson is proven at this level. It might not be pretty and he might not be good, but he'll eat innings better than Waecther/Barone/Seddon/Caravajal and allow Nolasco to come back slowly and 'skip' starts in April when a 5th starter is not required. This also allows Anibal not to rush back from injury because there is no longer a need to have just anyone throw for the club. This also allows Vanden Hurk to go to the bullpen and destroy people in inning bursts, or go to AAA and start to work on his secondary pitches. This also allows Gaby and Volstad to get another 100 innings in the minors to further develop, AND, not start their arbitration clock by rushing them to the big league level from day 1. This also gives the Marlins a professional veteran arm to help with the kids, and while some mock him as believing Hendrickson should teach them 'don't do what I do because I suck,' there is some minute value at having a guy who has been around for awhile on the staff. This also gives the Marlins an additional pitcher (Gregg, Mitre, J. Miller, Gardner) to hopefully trade at the break and create more longterm organizational depth. I'm very interested in that last one. I can see a 50% pitching staff turnover in July, and we'd probably be upgrading from within.

Sounds like a Beinfest Player to me.

 

 

Could end up joining the parade of headache inducing pitchers that Beinfest has netted over the years: Moehler, Julio, Leiter, Oliver.

 

And we'll be paying him $1.5 million to do so.

 

 

Brian Moehler had many a fine start for the Marlins. If memory serves, he started out either 2004 or 05' with a bang but couldn't get any run support. Don't you remember the "We're so sorry....Brian Moehler" song that Joe Rose busted out.

 

And count me among the group that has fine memories of Mark Redman as well. Having very little athletic ability myself, I guess I just have a soft spot for the guys who get by on offspeed/KY balls.

I can wait to see another reincarnation of Mark Redman. 6'9' of slowballing junk getting hit all over the place.

 

Redman had one real solid year with us...

 

 

Wild Card that post is not even worth the attention! Redman and Willis were two of the BIG reasons we even made it to the post season. Willis won like 8 of his very first decisions and during that time frame Redman was successful in all his starts. He even kept us in most games which is what average pitchers are suppose to do. Many wins in 03 were cause of these guys. Wish I can find a way to compile those stats from that year, anyone care to help?

 

 

I guess we get statements like this from bandwagon fans that don't follow the season but choose to write their opinions based upon post season performances. Maybe next time you should actually follow the WHOLE SEASON that way you don't look stupid my friend.

 

 

Why would you call someone stupid for posting their opinion? If you disagree w/ a post, then do so. State why you disagree and leave it at that. Heck, stooping to namecalling is even more pathetic than what Wild Card did. I guess this is what we get when we have adolescents posting on this site. :nono

 

 

The post was great until you contradicted yourself by also insulting, I guess you are an adolescent. I was agreeing with wild card not bashing him. Reading comprehension my friend.

 

 

You called someone stupid for posting, didn't you? That is my concern. If calling an individual stupid is your stating theircase, then what does that say of you? Did I misread that? That is pretty low. Wouldn't you agree? No need to answer. You seem pretty smart even though you may not want to admit you may have gone a bit over the line.

 

 

Agreed and I apologize for my rude statements, I guess I got carried away.

I was at the game last year in LA when he fell off the mound for no reason at all. One of the funniest things i've ever seen during a live game. Pretty much threw a warmup pitch and ended up on his face after tripping over some air.

 

I was excited when he came to LA but he never really lived up to my expectations of him. I hope he does well.

While I do agree Lou, he only averaged 5 innings per start last year...though throughout his career he averages nearly 6, so hopefully he'll be able to go back to that (For reference, for those that wanted Livan, Livan averaged just barely over 6 inn last year [i think the days of Livan averaging 7 are over]...so if Hendrickson goes back to his norm he would probably go about as long as Livan, just pitching a hell of a lot worse...but as long as he goes atleast 6 he's doing his duty).

 

I don't care really about the signing because it really doesn't matter that much although I think we overpaid for the skill we aquired. A "groundball pitcher" with a career GB% of 45% is not a good thing, but oh well.

 

As for your question 2003, I would have loved to get Jennings. Normalizing his numbers from Coors, he was a slightly below average-average pitcher up to 2006, when he was very much above average. I think he could put up a mid-4 ERA in our park (likely), maybe low-4.