Post game thread 5/1

[canada-marlin24]

that was a horrible series and we had a chance to win 2 of them....burke was pretty good and like i said all cody needs is some at bats... a good comeback inning for tank but fredi gonzalez is a joke and brings in gregg in a tie game again and gets the same result.....two loses....he could learn something from joe torre about how to use your closer.....NOT IN A TIE GAME!!!

[CTMarlinsfan]

all i can say is

 

Damn

[miamibaseball]

Pitching gone south, bullpen getting tired and hitting is not working. There has been too many strikeouts. This is not the way to start our home stand.

[gomarlins9703]

Fredi and Gregg teaming up to guarantee defeat.

[Schnellders]

the good - improved showing from the hopper, cody finally hits a homer, tank better, hanley was ok after 1st inning scare

 

the bad - gregg losing again, pinto struggled with 3 walks in 1 inning (0 runs tho), another 3 errors

 

an observation - WE NEED JAKEY AND HAMMER BACK

[miami-sports-geek]

Wanna hear something scary? The Marlins are the team that strikes out the most and we are 27th (out of 30) in walks drawn. Not to mention our pitching staff is 11th when it comes to walks given up and we are second to last in strikeouts. We just can't hold our breath like that and expect to win. I don't know how many times I've looked at the box score and seen a zero in the walks drawn columns and a four on the walks given up. Not cool.

[Erick]

If it's a home game, and the Dodgers are locked in a 3-3 tie, Takashi Saito is coming in because AT HOME, THAT IS the save situation.

 

On the road...it's different. You can take the lead...and then bring your closer in to get the "save."

 

Watch some baseball games...and notice the trend.

 

You must think every manager is an idiot, if that's the case b/c at home...ALL managers do it. Papelbon has come in, in a tie game the past 2 nights AT HOME. Terry Francona must be an idiot. Where is Okajima or DelCarmen when you need 'em?

 

If you not going to use a closer in your "save situation" of a game...what's the point of having a closer?

 

It's not Freddi's fault that "Superman" (or shall I say Superwoman) doesn't have the guts to throw strikes, at a consistent rate. If only Gregg realized that when he throws strikes...he's tough to hit. And it seems as if he does this on purpose, too. Notice how EVERY HITTER has a 3-2 count EVERY TIME Gregg comes in.

[83Gator]

[gonzalez] could learn something from joe torre about how to use your closer.....NOT IN A TIE GAME!!!

 

Torre uses his closer in the 9th inning of a tie game at home, at least he did against Colorado earlier this week. Lots of managers do that - once you hit the 9th inning of a tie game at home, you'll never have a save situation so you might as well use your closer, assuming he's competent and rested and doesn't have some phsychological block about pitching in a tie game.

 

Edit: I posted this at the same time as Erick else I wouldn't have bothered.

[louiecastillo1]

I'm just glad I didn't go to the game. Hopefully they'll get their asses out of their heads by tomorrow.

[Fish4Life]

Gregg has problems.,...

[Sirspud]

I say we should stick with Gregg no matter what. He's our guy.

[Rabbethan]

that was a horrible series and we had a chance to win 2 of them....burke was pretty good and like i said all cody needs is some at bats... a good comeback inning for tank but fredi gonzalez is a joke and brings in gregg in a tie game again and gets the same result.....two loses....he could learn something from joe torre about how to use your closer.....NOT IN A TIE GAME!!!

Fredi did the right thing by bringing the closer in. If we were at LA, you would have seen Saito in the 9th. Torre didn't bring him in because you don't bring in the closer in the 8th, you wait till the 9th.

 

The problem is that we need to start rethinking our closer situation with Gregg.

 

And Erick, it's not that he doesn't want to throw strikes, it's that he can't. If you look at him last season, when he went something like 22/22 in save situations at the beginning of the season, he threw nothing but strikes. He is just having trouble getting them in there.

[Erick]

You know what's funny?

 

If Tank blows the game today, it's Freddi's fault (not Tank's). Instead, Tank does his job, and it's "good comeback inning for Tank." Not good job Freddi for putting him back out there, to keep his confidence level, there.

 

If Gregg doesn't blow this one, no one complains.

...and it was the right move. 99.9 % of the time in a tie game (AT HOME) in the 9th, the closer is coming in (unless if he's been overused...like pitching 3 days in a row or something).

 

This is like blaming a parent when a 21 year old son makes a stupid decision. Kevin Gregg is a man...he's been our closer for over a year now, and while he's not great, he's done the job, for the most part. He's the CLOSER. He wasn't pitching outside of his role.

 

And Rabbe, as for Gregg doing it on purpose...I kinda didn't mean that. I'm sure they all want to throw strikes. But I DO think Gregg tries to be too "cute" at times. Freddi even said the other day that he doesn't mind it b/c it means "he's not giving in." I think it's time to reconsider that philosophy, if that's the case...

[gomarlins9703]

If it's a home game, and the Dodgers are locked in a 3-3 tie, Takashi Saito is coming in because AT HOME, THAT IS the save situation.

 

On the road...it's different. You can take the lead...and then bring your closer in to get the "save."

 

Watch some baseball games...and notice the trend.

 

You must think every manager is an idiot, if that's the case b/c at home...ALL managers do it. Papelbon has come in, in a tie game the past 2 nights AT HOME. Terry Francona must be an idiot. Where is Okajima or DelCarmen when you need 'em?

 

If you not going to use a closer in your "save situation" of a game...what's the point of having a closer?

 

It's not Freddi's fault that "Superman" (or shall I say Superwoman) doesn't have the guts to throw strikes, at a consistent rate. If only Gregg realized that when he throws strikes...he's tough to hit. And it seems as if he does this on purpose, too. Notice how EVERY HITTER has a 3-2 count EVERY TIME Gregg comes in.

 

The counterargument here would be that Gregg is not closer material and has been struggling with location all season. Personally, my gut told me we should not pitch Gregg today. Now, obviously I don't expect Fredi to follow my gut. But my problem is that Fredi does not seem to have a gut. He just seems to be robot manager doing whatever he is supposed to do opposed to what he feels he should do. To me, managing is touch and feel, not go by the rules. Being around a team, your gut should react to every move you make. But like I said, I think Fredi does not have a gut.

[Admin]

Wow Gregg has really been struggling in close game situations. His WHIP in 0-1 differential games entering today was 1.57. He walked two and gave up a hit to one. I'm not sure what should be done. I don't trust him in middle relief so I think for the time being Gregg should remain where he is. That does not mean that he should be "our guy" though.

[Tee Ball Bunt Machine]

The Dodgers have had our number for the last two years. While this does suck, I'd like to wait and see if this isn't just a continuation of that anamoly or if we're really sliding. We have the Padres next, and hopefully 2 out of 3 decent SP performances can get us some Ws and back where we belong.

[ORDfishfan]

Three words: "HURRY BACK HAMMER""

[The Marlin Man]

we're down two starters from the heart of our order; the dodgers had won 3 straight before coming into this series; and we still could have had two of those games.

 

I'm not sweating this sweep too much. We have problems but they are fixable (i.e. throwing strikes, getting our boppers back in the line up). I'll judge this home stand based on the next two series...let's see if we can take them both.

[Hammerhead]

Six straight games with hits given up. Two straight games with runs given up. If Gregg keeps this crap up, he needs out of the closer's role.

[Admin]

And where do you expect to put him then? The only place I can think of is mop-up duty. Anyone who gives up that many hits and walks shouldn't be pitching with men on base.

 

I suppose he can be called in when Andrew Miller gives up another 6 runs or so in four innings.

[Hammerhead]

And where do you expect to put him then? The only place I can think of is mop-up duty. Anyone who gives up that many hits and walks shouldn't be pitching with men on base.

 

I suppose he can be called in when Andrew Miller gives up another 6 runs or so in four innings.

That's sort of what I was thinking. A Lee Gardner type guy that comes in when we're down by 2+ for an inning or two. The guy still has decent stuff but he's just not dominant enough to be a closer. Doesn't really have a clear cut out pitch and relies on the fastball way too much. He needs to develop his breaking stuff if he wants to have any future as a closer.

[Erick]

and who closes?

Don't you guys think you're overreacting (just a tad)?

 

He's 3-2, with a 2.93 ERA, and is 4/5 in save situations.

Seriously, there are closers doing way worse, and they still have the job.

 

And last year, Gregg had a great beginning, and struggled a bit, in the end. EVERY CLOSER (just like teams) go through struggles over the course of a year. It's 2 games. He has been inconsistent, but #'s still show that he's doing just ok, and if he'd throw strikes, he'd dominate (his opp. batting average is very good).

 

Calm down.

[Admin]

Not in close game situations. As I've said his WHIP is exceeding 1.57 in that respect. That's terrible. It's more than two games. He's been giving up a lot of walks and hits frequently. He only gets away with it because he only needs to get three outs at the tail end of the game.

[Hammerhead]

He only gets away with it because he only needs to get three outs at the tail end of the game.

This. And he's been that way throughout his entire career. Like I said, he just isn't dominant enough to close. Yet.

[Erick]

Not in close game situations. As I've said his WHIP is exceeding 1.57 in that respect. That's terrible. It's more than two games. He's been giving up a lot of walks and hits frequently. He only gets away with it because he only needs to get three outs at the tail end of the game.

 

 

 

that's not it...Kerry Wood has a great WHIP, yet he's blown his share. Gagne has a nice K rate...he's doing horrible.

 

Gregg just isn't dominant. Never has been. He's the "bend, but don't break" guy. I personally don't like that type of "closer," but fact is, ever since he became closer, his save percentage has been very good.

 

...and as I said, if not him...who?