Ross had a GREAT .OPS with us last year, and is getting hot now.

 

And in 2006, his OPS was .680. That's the problem. So far we're seeing the 2006 Cody Ross not the 2007 model.

A 26 year old (a.k.a. entering power prime) and 24 year old are two different things.

 

2 years might not seem like much, but at that point, it is.

 

Also I'd argue that a low to mid .700 OPS is offensively a AAAA player.

What has Carroll done at the major league level?

Guy has an Ankiel-type gun.

 

Still doesn't answer my question

The past two years he's put a .320/.377/.616/.933 OPS line in the minors.

 

Now yes that does have to deal with the PCL but with constant playing time he could likely put up a low to mid .700 OPS (mostly slg filled, since with his K rates it's unlikely he puts up a good average and he doesn't walk a lot, so he won't have a very good OBP)

 

For someone that plays as good of defensive as he does, that makes him a servicable player (Moreso in center then in a corner spot, but for some reason it seems that Fredi doesn't like playing him in center).

 

 

...but that also makes him (Carroll) a serviceable bench player on most teams.

 

I think our best option right now, is Cody Ross. Cody Ross should play every day right now. Just leave Amezaga where he belongs, on the bench (Amezaga is a great utility guy).

 

Ross had a GREAT .OPS with us last year, and is getting hot now.

 

...and as you said, it's the PCL. I'm not about to get excited over Carroll's PCL #'s. From what I've seen in the big leagues, Carroll is a very mediocre hitter (to be nice).

Dude what r u talking about! Carroll has 14 AB in 10 games. In only 2 games he has multiple ABs. There is no basis to say he is a bad hitter he hasn't seen enough pitching. Anyone who has played the game will tell you that with 1 ab every 3-4 games it is almost impossible to keep ur timing as a hitter. The reality no one has any idea what this kid can do because he is so buried down on the bench not even the termites can find him. BTW Amezaga has been benched and Cody will be playing everday for awhile now. So the lovefest with Amezaga is over. He showed a lot of range because he often would not get a good jump on the ball. It's almost like saying he is a better CF than Kotsay because he makes more diving catches. Guess what Kotsay makes those catches without having to dive because he is better defensively

Here's the link that anounces that Cody will be playing everyday

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/articl...sp&c_id=fla

The past two years he's put a .320/.377/.616/.933 OPS line in the minors.

 

Now yes that does have to deal with the PCL but with constant playing time he could likely put up a low to mid .700 OPS (mostly slg filled, since with his K rates it's unlikely he puts up a good average and he doesn't walk a lot, so he won't have a very good OBP)

 

For someone that plays as good of defensive as he does, that makes him a servicable player (Moreso in center then in a corner spot, but for some reason it seems that Fredi doesn't like playing him in center).

 

 

...but that also makes him (Carroll) a serviceable bench player on most teams.

 

I think our best option right now, is Cody Ross. Cody Ross should play every day right now. Just leave Amezaga where he belongs, on the bench (Amezaga is a great utility guy).

 

Ross had a GREAT .OPS with us last year, and is getting hot now.

 

...and as you said, it's the PCL. I'm not about to get excited over Carroll's PCL #'s. From what I've seen in the big leagues, Carroll is a very mediocre hitter (to be nice).

Dude what r u talking about! Carroll has 14 AB in 10 games. In only 2 games he has multiple ABs. There is no basis to say he is a bad hitter he hasn't seen enough pitching. Anyone who has played the game will tell you that with 1 ab every 3-4 games it is almost impossible to keep ur timing as a hitter. The reality no one has any idea what this kid can do because he is so buried down on the bench not even the termites can find him. BTW Amezaga has been benched and Cody will be playing everday for awhile now. So the lovefest with Amezaga is over. He showed a lot of range because he often would not get a good jump on the ball. It's almost like saying he is a better CF than Kotsay because he makes more diving catches. Guess what Kotsay makes those catches without having to dive because he is better defensively

Now the defensive Amezaga hatefest starts? When did this "he's not a good CF" thing start? His range factor at CF, and every other position, is above league average (and better than Kotsay). That kinda discounts the "he only seems like a good CF because he takes bad routes and dives for easy catches" things. Add his arm to the mix, where he had 8 Assists and 643 Innings last season (Kotsay had 6 Assists in 1047 Innings in 2006, he only played 56 games in 2007).

I think the hate on Carroll is just a little unfair. Fredi just won't give this guy a chance.

The past two years he's put a .320/.377/.616/.933 OPS line in the minors.

 

Now yes that does have to deal with the PCL but with constant playing time he could likely put up a low to mid .700 OPS (mostly slg filled, since with his K rates it's unlikely he puts up a good average and he doesn't walk a lot, so he won't have a very good OBP)

 

For someone that plays as good of defensive as he does, that makes him a servicable player (Moreso in center then in a corner spot, but for some reason it seems that Fredi doesn't like playing him in center).

 

 

...but that also makes him (Carroll) a serviceable bench player on most teams.

 

I think our best option right now, is Cody Ross. Cody Ross should play every day right now. Just leave Amezaga where he belongs, on the bench (Amezaga is a great utility guy).

 

Ross had a GREAT .OPS with us last year, and is getting hot now.

 

...and as you said, it's the PCL. I'm not about to get excited over Carroll's PCL #'s. From what I've seen in the big leagues, Carroll is a very mediocre hitter (to be nice).

Dude what r u talking about! Carroll has 14 AB in 10 games. In only 2 games he has multiple ABs. There is no basis to say he is a bad hitter he hasn't seen enough pitching. Anyone who has played the game will tell you that with 1 ab every 3-4 games it is almost impossible to keep ur timing as a hitter. The reality no one has any idea what this kid can do because he is so buried down on the bench not even the termites can find him. BTW Amezaga has been benched and Cody will be playing everday for awhile now. So the lovefest with Amezaga is over. He showed a lot of range because he often would not get a good jump on the ball. It's almost like saying he is a better CF than Kotsay because he makes more diving catches. Guess what Kotsay makes those catches without having to dive because he is better defensively

Now the defensive Amezaga hatefest starts? When did this "he's not a good CF" thing start? His range factor at CF, and every other position, is above league average (and better than Kotsay). That kinda discounts the "he only seems like a good CF because he takes bad routes and dives for easy catches" things. Add his arm to the mix, where he had 8 Assists and 643 Innings last season (Kotsay had 6 Assists in 1047 Innings in 2006, he only played 56 games in 2007).

Rabb dude, I think you are great but when you start reciting stats to say that Alfredo Amezaga is a better glove than Mark Kotsay in CF, I think you have become too much of a stat geek. It's not a secret I have always been an Amezaga in CF hater from day 1 and I admit that he has grown leaps and bound defensively, He is a decent glove now maybe bordering on pretty good but he is not in Andrew Jones, Torie Hunter, Grady Sizemore or Mark Kotsay category. Range factor is a flawed statistic and amount of assists means nothing because players don't run on the outfielders with the best and most accurate arms. Amezaga gets the job done and has become a serviceable CF defensively. He would still have a way to go but he doesn't hit enough as an everyday player to keep him as an outfielder. He isn't as good as Jason Michaels defensively and Cleveland gave Michaels away for almost nothing just because he wasn't hitting enough

The past two years he's put a .320/.377/.616/.933 OPS line in the minors.

 

Now yes that does have to deal with the PCL but with constant playing time he could likely put up a low to mid .700 OPS (mostly slg filled, since with his K rates it's unlikely he puts up a good average and he doesn't walk a lot, so he won't have a very good OBP)

 

For someone that plays as good of defensive as he does, that makes him a servicable player (Moreso in center then in a corner spot, but for some reason it seems that Fredi doesn't like playing him in center).

 

 

...but that also makes him (Carroll) a serviceable bench player on most teams.

 

I think our best option right now, is Cody Ross. Cody Ross should play every day right now. Just leave Amezaga where he belongs, on the bench (Amezaga is a great utility guy).

 

Ross had a GREAT .OPS with us last year, and is getting hot now.

 

...and as you said, it's the PCL. I'm not about to get excited over Carroll's PCL #'s. From what I've seen in the big leagues, Carroll is a very mediocre hitter (to be nice).

Dude what r u talking about! Carroll has 14 AB in 10 games. In only 2 games he has multiple ABs. There is no basis to say he is a bad hitter he hasn't seen enough pitching. Anyone who has played the game will tell you that with 1 ab every 3-4 games it is almost impossible to keep ur timing as a hitter. The reality no one has any idea what this kid can do because he is so buried down on the bench not even the termites can find him. BTW Amezaga has been benched and Cody will be playing everday for awhile now. So the lovefest with Amezaga is over. He showed a lot of range because he often would not get a good jump on the ball. It's almost like saying he is a better CF than Kotsay because he makes more diving catches. Guess what Kotsay makes those catches without having to dive because he is better defensively

Now the defensive Amezaga hatefest starts? When did this "he's not a good CF" thing start? His range factor at CF, and every other position, is above league average (and better than Kotsay). That kinda discounts the "he only seems like a good CF because he takes bad routes and dives for easy catches" things. Add his arm to the mix, where he had 8 Assists and 643 Innings last season (Kotsay had 6 Assists in 1047 Innings in 2006, he only played 56 games in 2007).

Rabb dude, I think you are great but when you start reciting stats to say that Alfredo Amezaga is a better glove than Mark Kotsay in CF, I think you have become too much of a stat geek. It's not a secret I have always been an Amezaga in CF hater from day 1 and I admit that he has grown leaps and bound defensively, He is a decent glove now maybe bordering on pretty good but he is not in Andrew Jones, Torie Hunter, Grady Sizemore or Mark Kotsay category. Range factor is a flawed statistic and amount of assists means nothing because players don't run on the outfielders with the best and most accurate arms. Amezaga gets the job done and has become a serviceable CF defensively. He would still have a way to go but he doesn't hit enough as an everyday player to keep him as an outfielder. He isn't as good as Jason Michaels defensively and Cleveland gave Michaels away for almost nothing just because he wasn't hitting enough

I don't see how you can say he is a bad outfielder. I know RF isn't a great stat, as there are no "great' defensive stats, but his range factor is so much more than the league average it is hard to ignore. T

 

he argument against Amezaga is a bit on the ridiculous side. I can't use stats, because stats are flawed, but I can't use my eyes, because in this case my eyes deceive me. What am I supposed to use, my gut? Truthiness?

 

Mez's range is so much better than the average CF, it doesn't matter if he takes bad routes a good number of the time. All that means is that he could be a better CF than he is. Kotsay might be a better minded CF, but Amezaga just has better natural skills. He has a more speed and a mini-cannon for an arm. In the end, Kotsay probably knows how to play CF better, and is a better CF, but Amezaga gets to more balls and records more outs.

The problem with Amezega is not his CF play, that is fine.

The past two years he's put a .320/.377/.616/.933 OPS line in the minors.

 

Now yes that does have to deal with the PCL but with constant playing time he could likely put up a low to mid .700 OPS (mostly slg filled, since with his K rates it's unlikely he puts up a good average and he doesn't walk a lot, so he won't have a very good OBP)

 

For someone that plays as good of defensive as he does, that makes him a servicable player (Moreso in center then in a corner spot, but for some reason it seems that Fredi doesn't like playing him in center).

 

 

...but that also makes him (Carroll) a serviceable bench player on most teams.

 

I think our best option right now, is Cody Ross. Cody Ross should play every day right now. Just leave Amezaga where he belongs, on the bench (Amezaga is a great utility guy).

 

Ross had a GREAT .OPS with us last year, and is getting hot now.

 

...and as you said, it's the PCL. I'm not about to get excited over Carroll's PCL #'s. From what I've seen in the big leagues, Carroll is a very mediocre hitter (to be nice).

Dude what r u talking about! Carroll has 14 AB in 10 games. In only 2 games he has multiple ABs. There is no basis to say he is a bad hitter he hasn't seen enough pitching. Anyone who has played the game will tell you that with 1 ab every 3-4 games it is almost impossible to keep ur timing as a hitter. The reality no one has any idea what this kid can do because he is so buried down on the bench not even the termites can find him. BTW Amezaga has been benched and Cody will be playing everday for awhile now. So the lovefest with Amezaga is over. He showed a lot of range because he often would not get a good jump on the ball. It's almost like saying he is a better CF than Kotsay because he makes more diving catches. Guess what Kotsay makes those catches without having to dive because he is better defensively

Now the defensive Amezaga hatefest starts? When did this "he's not a good CF" thing start? His range factor at CF, and every other position, is above league average (and better than Kotsay). That kinda discounts the "he only seems like a good CF because he takes bad routes and dives for easy catches" things. Add his arm to the mix, where he had 8 Assists and 643 Innings last season (Kotsay had 6 Assists in 1047 Innings in 2006, he only played 56 games in 2007).

Rabb dude, I think you are great but when you start reciting stats to say that Alfredo Amezaga is a better glove than Mark Kotsay in CF, I think you have become too much of a stat geek. It's not a secret I have always been an Amezaga in CF hater from day 1 and I admit that he has grown leaps and bound defensively, He is a decent glove now maybe bordering on pretty good but he is not in Andrew Jones, Torie Hunter, Grady Sizemore or Mark Kotsay category. Range factor is a flawed statistic and amount of assists means nothing because players don't run on the outfielders with the best and most accurate arms. Amezaga gets the job done and has become a serviceable CF defensively. He would still have a way to go but he doesn't hit enough as an everyday player to keep him as an outfielder. He isn't as good as Jason Michaels defensively and Cleveland gave Michaels away for almost nothing just because he wasn't hitting enough

I don't see how you can say he is a bad outfielder. I know RF isn't a great stat, as there are no "great' defensive stats, but his range factor is so much more than the league average it is hard to ignore. T

 

he argument against Amezaga is a bit on the ridiculous side. I can't use stats, because stats are flawed, but I can't use my eyes, because in this case my eyes deceive me. What am I supposed to use, my gut? Truthiness?

 

Mez's range is so much better than the average CF, it doesn't matter if he takes bad routes a good number of the time. All that means is that he could be a better CF than he is. Kotsay might be a better minded CF, but Amezaga just has better natural skills. He has a more speed and a mini-cannon for an arm. In the end, Kotsay probably knows how to play CF better, and is a better CF, but Amezaga gets to more balls and records more outs.

I understand your frustration in reference to defensive stats there are many to chose from in this case I can bring up ZR (zone rating) The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," Amezaga ranks 10th amongst NL CF and 21ist in the majors. Who is the best? Grady Sizemore (No wonder the experts like Grady so much)

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fieldi...mp;seasonType=2

 

If you look at the RF stat Amezaga is 5th in the majors (amongst CF) which would lead you to believe "wow thats awesome" but who leads the majors in the RF stat? Carlos Gomez, and he leads it not by a liittle either, Lets look at Carlos Gomez. Can he be called the best CF or is he amongst the best defensive CF? Well you guys make the decision yourself, He leads all CF in error with 5 (Tori Hunter must cringe when he sees him manning his old turf) He also has the lowest FPCT (fielding percentage) Now defensive stats are so flawed that if you look at ZR, you may think I made my point but wait... Who happens to be 2nd in ZR in the majors? Carlos Gomez!

I don't see how you can say he is a bad outfielder. I know RF isn't a great stat, as there are no "great' defensive stats, but his range factor is so much more than the league average it is hard to ignore. T

 

he argument against Amezaga is a bit on the ridiculous side. I can't use stats, because stats are flawed, but I can't use my eyes, because in this case my eyes deceive me. What am I supposed to use, my gut? Truthiness?

 

Mez's range is so much better than the average CF, it doesn't matter if he takes bad routes a good number of the time. All that means is that he could be a better CF than he is. Kotsay might be a better minded CF, but Amezaga just has better natural skills. He has a more speed and a mini-cannon for an arm. In the end, Kotsay probably knows how to play CF better, and is a better CF, but Amezaga gets to more balls and records more outs.

I understand your frustration in reference to defensive stats there are many to chose from in this case I can bring up ZR (zone rating) The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," Amezaga ranks 10th amongst NL CF and 21ist in the majors. Who is the best? Grady Sizemore (No wonder the experts like Grady so much)

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fieldi...mp;seasonType=2

 

If you look at the RF stat Amezaga is 5th in the majors (amongst CF) which would lead you to believe "wow thats awesome" but who leads the majors in the RF stat? Carlos Gomez, and he leads it not by a liittle either, Lets look at Carlos Gomez. Can he be called the best CF or is he amongst the best defensive CF? Well you guys make the decision yourself, He leads all CF in error with 5 (Tori Hunter must cringe when he sees him manning his old turf) He also has the lowest FPCT (fielding percentage) Now defensive stats are so flawed that if you look at ZR, you may think I made my point but wait... Who happens to be 2nd in ZR in the majors? Carlos Gomez!

Well, then it's a good thing I wasn't using that stat.

 

That's like you comparing pitchers by ERA and then me saying "Well, stats are flawed. Just look at Catcher ERA! So forget about those stats."

Damn Amezaga started in CF again! Damn fredi was supose to be playing Cody what is Fredi's problem He got another ofer!

And as usual his (Amezaga's) defense was big in the game. All you have to do is look at the (defensive) stiff playing next to him in right to understand whether AA gets a hit he's an asset to this team. And regardless of what the stats say no one plays harder or with more determination when it comes to running down a sure double or triple than Amezaga.

 

I know a sh*tstorm of boos will rain down on me for saying the obvious, but Hermida cannot nor I do I think will ever be able to play right field at the major league level. While there's a very vocal chorus here to get a centerfielder and a catcher (which baffles me by that's for another post) Hermida's career, from my perspective, hinges on him moving to left where he'll get in much less trouble and can actually be a defensive asset to the team instead of the impediment he is now. I personally think he would make a terrific leftfielder and is young enough to make the transition. Were it me I'd be looking to make that move as soon as possible but I hope at least by Opening Day 2009 he's playing in left where I think he can have a long and productive career.

And as usual his (Amezaga's) defense was big in the game. All you have to do is look at the (defensive) stiff playing next to him in right to understand whether AA gets a hit he's an asset to this team. And regardless of what the stats say no one plays harder or with more determination when it comes to running down a sure double or triple than Amezaga.

 

I know a sh*tstorm of boos will rain down on me for saying the obvious, but Hermida cannot nor I do I think will ever be able to play right field at the major league level. While there's a very vocal chorus here to get a centerfielder and a catcher (which baffles me by that's for another post) Hermida's career, at least me, hinges on him moving to left where he'll get in much less trouble and can actually be a defensive asset to the team instead of the impediment he is now. I personally think he would make a terrific leftfielder and is young enough to make the transition. Were it me I'd be looking to make that move as soon as possible but I hope at least by Opening Day 2009 he's playing in left where I think he can have a long and productive career.

If Fredi believes Amezaga is such a huge defensive presence that justifies him handling most of the playing time in CF than why does he still have him batting first in the lineup. If he is the modern day version of Gary Pettis why doesn't Fredi just name him his everyday CF and drop him to 8th in the lineup? Could be that he wants to keep his job

Amezaga is a GREAT utility player.

 

As for Carroll, I'm not only talking this year, I'm talking all his ML AB's. I don't even see any potential, there. The guy rarely even makes contact, and when he does, it's rarely ever solid.

And as usual his (Amezaga's) defense was big in the game. All you have to do is look at the (defensive) stiff playing next to him in right to understand whether AA gets a hit he's an asset to this team. And regardless of what the stats say no one plays harder or with more determination when it comes to running down a sure double or triple than Amezaga.

 

I know a sh*tstorm of boos will rain down on me for saying the obvious, but Hermida cannot nor I do I think will ever be able to play right field at the major league level. While there's a very vocal chorus here to get a centerfielder and a catcher (which baffles me by that's for another post) Hermida's career, from my perspective, hinges on him moving to left where he'll get in much less trouble and can actually be a defensive asset to the team instead of the impediment he is now. I personally think he would make a terrific leftfielder and is young enough to make the transition. Were it me I'd be looking to make that move as soon as possible but I hope at least by Opening Day 2009 he's playing in left where I think he can have a long and productive career.

 

I agree with this. Hermida often looks lost in RF.

Have news for u guys...A lot of experts are calling the Dewan's +/- rating system the best possible evaluation of defense existing right now and in the Majors acording to this rating Bobby Abreu, Alexis Rios and Jeremy Hermida are the leaders amongst RFers in the major. i wish I had access to the full list but as far as I am aware its only available by paid subscription

http://actasports.com/sows.php

Have news for u guys...A lot of experts are calling the Dewan's +/- rating system the best possible evaluation of defense existing right now and in the Majors acording to this rating Bobby Abreu, Alexis Rios and Jeremy Hermida are the leaders amongst RFers in the major. i wish I had access to the full list but as far as I am aware its only available by paid subscription

http://actasports.com/sows.php

Man, you must have a love/hate relationship with stats.

 

Um, that stat shows that Carlos Gomez is the best CFer in the game. The same Carlos Gomez that you used as a basis for why Zone Rating is a crappy stat about 12 hours ago.

Have news for u guys...A lot of experts are calling the Dewan's +/- rating system the best possible evaluation of defense existing right now and in the Majors acording to this rating Bobby Abreu, Alexis Rios and Jeremy Hermida are the leaders amongst RFers in the major. i wish I had access to the full list but as far as I am aware its only available by paid subscription

http://actasports.com/sows.php

Man, you must have a love/hate relationship with stats.

 

Um, that stat shows that Carlos Gomez is the best CFer in the game. The same Carlos Gomez that you used as a basis for why Zone Rating is a crappy stat about 12 hours ago.

I know and it's killing me!

It also shows Amezaga as one of the best defensive CFers the past two years, so I'm sure he'll disown it (He was 6th last year and 10th in 2006. Also keep in mind that that's with less than half the playing time as the others, so you could essential double his score, which moves him up dramatically).

 

What plus/minus is is more or less just range. People's problem with the likes of Hermida is the fact that he's not very good at fielding from a technical stand point. Luckily that can be learned, skill sets can not.

I usually love stats, as well. They're the BEST use of a players value, etc.

 

...but, I've seen Hermida turn doubles into triples, and singles into doubles.

Just tonight, when Billy Butler hit a "double" to give the Royals a 3-2 lead.

 

I also saw Hermida make 10 errors in about 120 games he played last year. For a RF'er, that's not a good stat.

 

Everytime a ball is hit to Hermida, I'm never 100% confident. Even when he catches 'em, I often shout at my TV "2 hands!" b/c he's dropped routine fly balls before, and only then he used 2 hands...next game, he'll go back to trying to look cute, using 1 hand.

 

I think he'd be better suited for LF, as well.

link plz NNY

...but, I've seen Hermida turn doubles into triples, and singles into doubles.

Just tonight, when Billy Butler hit a "double" to give the Royals a 3-2 lead.

The runner was on 2nd with 2 outs. He was going to score regardless of it being a single or a double. That ball wasn't catchable. Hermida tried to slide to cut the ball of and hold Butler to a single. In the end, he was stranded in 2nd, so nothing bad came of it.

link plz NNY

 

 

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