Because, its obvious, this team is good, but not good enough to take the next step. The front office isn't going to bring back the same cast of characters next year and see the exact same season unfold. They aren't stupid.

The team we have now (at the end of the season) is a lot better than what we had at the start of the season.

 

That said, I don't argue that there shouldn't be changes. My only argument here is that people are crazy to expect that you can replace the production of a two-time All-Star who continues to set records for power hitting at 2B with a guy who's never even been on a major league roster and also happens to be a defensive downgrade to boot. For crying out loud, Dan Uggla had the third highest OPS of any full-time 2B in 2008, and he is our best full-time IF defender. Yes, there are guys on the team who are expendable and replaceable, but Uggla is not one of them.

Are you insinuating that McPherson's range is so superior? If a guy makes errors by not being able to catch routine ground balls and cannot make routine throws and that is not a good measure of defensive ability... than what would be?

 

I'm not insinuating, I'm stating it is.

 

And are errors only for routine ground balls and routine throws? No they are not. So I don't know have any idea what you mean by that statement. Judging a fielder by errors is like judging a hitter by batting average.

 

And more advanced fielding statistics would be. You can see my other thread about them.

 

I am aware of those measures. they used those measures to call Andruw Jones overrated because he got to fewer balls. But, errors are not a bad assessment IMO. If you are a player that routinely makes 25 errors, you are not by any measure the best defensive player or a good defensive player. Part of a defensive players ability is the ability to make an accurate throw and at times know when not to make a throw. I think BA is still a good measure of ability. It should not be looked at alone, as Hitting incorporates many more variables.

No, you are right...

 

You should have stopped there.

 

And Miguel Cabrera theoretically could have been at 1B with Cantu at third.

 

Jorge Cantu would have never gotten a call from the Marlins if Miggy was on the team.

 

 

I should not have stopped there because that DUMB comment infers that Miguel would not have had those numbers in Dolphin Stadium when he put up BETTER numbers when he was here. We have statistics all over the internet that prove that Miguel had better seasons while he was here than Cantu did. Why would he NOT have put up good numbers. He had a bad season by his standards and STILL had a better numerical season.

 

 

And if Cantu would not have gotten a call... I would NOT have shed a tear.

I am aware of those measures. they used those measures to call Andruw Jones overrated because he got to fewer balls.

 

Actually, what you are talking about is an pretty old stat called Zone Rating, and it is actually a very, very, very bad statistic. A great example is the one you just showed: Andruw Jones is still one of the best CFers in baseball and yet ZR shows him as one of the worst.

 

Check out my other threads about plus/minus and RZR/OOZ for more advanced statistics.

I am aware of those measures. they used those measures to call Andruw Jones overrated because he got to fewer balls.

 

Actually, what you are talking about is an pretty old stat called Zone Rating, and it is actually a very, very, very bad statistic. A great example is the one you just showed: Andruw Jones is still one of the best CFers in baseball and yet ZR shows him as one of the worst.

 

Check out my other threads about plus/minus and RZR/OOZ for more advanced statistics.

 

saw that thread yesterday, pretty interesting.

I should not have stopped there because that DUMB comment infers that Miguel would not have had those numbers in Dolphin Stadium when he put up BETTER numbers when he was here. We have statistics all over the internet that prove that Miguel had better seasons while he was here than Cantu did. Why would he NOT have put up good numbers. He had a bad season by his standards and STILL had a better numerical season.

 

 

And if Cantu would not have gotten a call... I would NOT have shed a tear.

 

I feel fairly confident in the assertion that Miggy's slump would have been worse in DS, and his up time would not have been a 1.500OPS month. Especially if he were buried in a lineup with 6 other slumping guys (like Cantu was)

IMO Cabs "slump" wasn't a slump but an adjustment period.

 

You can't just say "this guy would be putting up the same numbers on this team", expecially when you're talking about different leagues.

 

If Cabs stayed here I believe he'd have had the prototypical Cabs season that he was having the past several years here.

Hanley Ramirez is a star, but not of the magnitude of several other stars out there.

 

 

Name 5, and I'll give you a cookie.

 

Hanley is definitely on the top 5 list of players in the majors, but lets be real, as far as being KNOWN NATIONALLY as a superstar, nobody really talks about Hanley outside of South Fla and, on odd occasions, on baseball tonight. Then again, I'm not talking about potential or about skill, but just the hype that has been built about these players, whether they deserve it or not.

-Pujols

-David Ortiz

- A-Rod

- Barry Bonds (yes, controversial, used steroids, etc but people would flock to watch him play)

- Vlad

- Manny (yes, he can still put people in the seats)

 

Remember, it's all about their markets, and the acclaim these guys have gotten on the national stage, which Hanley has yet to accrue, not because he is not better than them, but because the market really doesn't make him known to the rest of the country. So if you traded for any of these guys tomorrow, I'm sure people would buy a lot more tickets (although I wouldn't put my hands in the fire for this comment because after all, it IS south florida).

Vlad Guerrero should not be in that list.

Vlad Guerrero should not be in that list.

I agree. Replace him with Derek Jeter.

Vlad Guerrero should not be in that list.

I agree. Replace him with Derek Jeter.

 

 

Derek Jeter doesn't put up the stats to be considered in the top 5 in MLB.

 

No love for M-Cabs?

 

how about a Carlos Quentin?

Vlad Guerrero should not be in that list.

I agree. Replace him with Derek Jeter.

 

 

Derek Jeter doesn't put up the stats to be considered in the top 5 in MLB.

 

No love for M-Cabs?

 

how about a Carlos Quentin?

That post wasn't about stats, it was about star power. If we were going with stats Hanley would be on the list.

Vlad Guerrero should not be in that list.

I agree. Replace him with Derek Jeter.

 

 

Derek Jeter doesn't put up the stats to be considered in the top 5 in MLB.

 

No love for M-Cabs?

 

how about a Carlos Quentin?

That post wasn't about stats, it was about star power. If we were going with stats Hanley would be on the list.

 

oh sorry, didn't see the fact about star power. Currently A-Rod has the highest star power, followed by Manny, just because of the buzz this offseason. David Ortiz isn't on the list because he doesn't get noteriety, he just puts up the stats, Gary Sheffield gets on the list just because of his stats in the past and his demeanor off the field, Pujols gets buzz, but doesn't get attention off the field. Pedro Martinez is the 2nd most notable pitcher, if we count Roger Clemens. If we are going by star power, Hanley doesn't even cut the top 100

Personally i dont think there will be that many changes for us, mostly because i ve heard a couple guys like, Tim kurjian, Gammons, and Jayson stark all say they dont expcet us to change much and that our payroll should increase. So far they all seem to agree that jakes definenlty gone and that olsen will only go if we can get a pretty decent deal for him. I did here Hermi could possibly be traded, which im not a fan of.

I keep wanting them to talk about uggla but its like none of them even expcet us to trade him at all.

I keep wanting them to talk about uggla but its like none of them even expcet us to trade him at all.

Why do you want to trade one of the best 2B in baseball?

Vlad Guerrero should not be in that list.

I agree. Replace him with Derek Jeter.

You guys are soooo picky. Fine, take Vlad down. Still leaves me with 5 names, so I get the cookie! Lets make it a beer, shall we? Magic Hat # 9, thanks.

I keep wanting them to talk about uggla but its like none of them even expcet us to trade him at all.

Why do you want to trade one of the best 2B in baseball?

 

 

I dont, i want uggla here. I just wish theyd talk about him since everyone here seems to agree hes on the fence if he will stay or go. Ive been saying all along i want him back.

Personally i dont think there will be that many changes for us, mostly because i ve heard a couple guys like, Tim kurjian, Gammons, and Jayson stark all say they dont expcet us to change much and that our payroll should increase. So far they all seem to agree that jakes definenlty gone and that olsen will only go if we can get a pretty decent deal for him. I did here Hermi could possibly be traded, which im not a fan of.

I keep wanting them to talk about uggla but its like none of them even expcet us to trade him at all.

 

I believe the team will shop just about everyone. "Everyone is tradeable." It will come down to who or what we can get in return that betters the team overall. But going by what has been said by Beinfest in particular, I look for the guys that K the most, are "slow", swing away instead of trying to put the ball in play, and won't be missed defensively to be shopped a little more aggresively. We can all argue until we are blue in the face, but my trust goes to Beinfest and his judgement.

Uggla and Jacobs frustrate me like nobody else on this team.

 

 

 

The sooner they are gone, the sooner we take the next step.

 

 

Having players that just swing and have no clue how to have a professional at bat isnt what wins you titles.

 

 

Especially when their defense isnt great.

 

 

That SI article on Uggla this summer said everything you need to know, good pitching will eat him alive, meaning he would be eaten alive in the playoffs. Jacobs is even worse with even worse defense.

Where is Rabb and his stats on uggla and how many good pitchers hes hit.

Uggla and Jacobs frustrate me like nobody else on this team.

 

 

 

The sooner they are gone, the sooner we take the next step.

 

 

Having players that just swing and have no clue how to have a professional at bat isnt what wins you titles.

 

 

Especially when their defense isnt great.

 

 

That SI article on Uggla this summer said everything you need to know, good pitching will eat him alive, meaning he would be eaten alive in the playoffs. Jacobs is even worse with even worse defense.

 

 

Uggla was the best Marlin defender in the infield last season, even though that isn't saying much.

Uggla and Jacobs frustrate me like nobody else on this team.

 

The sooner they are gone, the sooner we take the next step.

 

Having players that just swing and have no clue how to have a professional at bat isnt what wins you titles.

 

Uggla does not fit that description

 

Especially when their defense isnt great.

 

Uggla's defense is fine

 

That SI article on Uggla this summer said everything you need to know, good pitching will eat him alive, meaning he would be eaten alive in the playoffs. Jacobs is even worse with even worse defense.

 

Uggla does not struggle against good pitching any more than anyone else.

Where is Rabb and his stats on uggla and how many good pitchers hes hit.

 

.ba .ops

 

2008:

Pitcher with ERA

so he was bad against them this year but throughout his career he's been ok

 

Do you have the league OPS v. pitchers of those ERA ratings? Because without that there is no context.

 

Here is rab's post: some guys Uggla hits

No unfortunately, but looking around it seems that low .700 OPS is about the average.