October 1, 200818 yr And who did we get for Beckett? Hanley Ramirez, right? Anibal Sanchez, right? And, for what it's worth...you're wrong. Beckett had an outstanding 2007 season. In 2006, however, he had a 5.01 ERA, and allowed 36 HR's. He was nothing to brag about this year either with a 12-10 record / 4.03 ERA. Again...if there's a Beckett, there is no Hanley Ramirez. You have to look at it both ways. That is not the point.The point is the ownerships habit of trading away players once their price tag raises.You can expect the same again and again.Hanley Ramirez may be gone as well with this unpredictably cheap owner. AND WE DID BETTER THIS YEAR THAN IN EVERY YEAR THAT DIDN'T RESULT IN A WORLD SERIES... WITHOUT MIGGY, WITHOUT DONTRELLE, WITHOUT BECKETT, WITHOUT DELGADO, WITHOUT LOWELL, WITHOUT ALL THE BIG NAMES... THE NAMES DON'T MATTER IN THE LONG RUN :banghead Yet you and others want to trade this year away and head back to square one. :banghead WAIT CHRIS COUGHLAN IS WAITING TO SAVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :notworthy You watch too much ESPN....
October 1, 200818 yr Yet you and others want to trade this year away and head back to square one. :banghead WAIT CHRIS COUGHLAN IS WAITING TO SAVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :notworthy Jacobs sucks and is replaceable Uggla, while good, IS replaceable, and trading him would improve other parts of the club Hammer is injury prone, so if you want to pay full-time money to a player that might play most of the season, your risk Olsen absolutely sucks away from Dolphin Stadium and can be replaced from within the system Trimming the fat will improve the team, you want to go to the playoffs? Get rid of weaknesses, Jake is a weakness, Hammer isn't reliable, Uggla can be replaced, you won't get the insane production, but you'll get more than adequate production from a Chris Coghlan to justify moving him if we get stud player(s) back... Just returning what we have doesn't guarantee improvement, FO's ALWAYS have to be proactive I have already said i would trade Jacobs, Willingham and perhaps Olsen.Gregg Bye, Hendrickson bye.I'm not saying we should keep Hammer or Jake.
October 1, 200818 yr Third firesale here we come!!!.Unfortunetly the 2009-2010 offseason may be just as ugly, when the players we keep start making second year arbitration. And in 2011-2012 off season will be ugly too with most of the arb players that we replace with this offseason will be in the 3rd year by then.
October 1, 200818 yr Yet you and others want to trade this year away and head back to square one. :banghead WAIT CHRIS COUGHLAN IS WAITING TO SAVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :notworthy Jacobs sucks and is replaceable Uggla, while good, IS replaceable, and trading him would improve other parts of the club Hammer is injury prone, so if you want to pay full-time money to a player that might play most of the season, your risk Olsen absolutely sucks away from Dolphin Stadium and can be replaced from within the system Trimming the fat will improve the team, you want to go to the playoffs? Get rid of weaknesses, Jake is a weakness, Hammer isn't reliable, Uggla can be replaced, you won't get the insane production, but you'll get more than adequate production from a Chris Coghlan to justify moving him if we get stud player(s) back... Just returning what we have doesn't guarantee improvement, FO's ALWAYS have to be proactive I have already said i would trade Jacobs, Willingham and perhaps Olsen.Gregg Bye, Hendrickson bye.I'm not saying we should keep Hammer or Jake. You called these potential moves a firesale, if you're opposed to all but only one, why would you call it a firesale then?
October 1, 200818 yr Yet you and others want to trade this year away and head back to square one. :banghead WAIT CHRIS COUGHLAN IS WAITING TO SAVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :notworthy Jacobs sucks and is replaceable Uggla, while good, IS replaceable, and trading him would improve other parts of the club Hammer is injury prone, so if you want to pay full-time money to a player that might play most of the season, your risk Olsen absolutely sucks away from Dolphin Stadium and can be replaced from within the system Trimming the fat will improve the team, you want to go to the playoffs? Get rid of weaknesses, Jake is a weakness, Hammer isn't reliable, Uggla can be replaced, you won't get the insane production, but you'll get more than adequate production from a Chris Coghlan to justify moving him if we get stud player(s) back... Just returning what we have doesn't guarantee improvement, FO's ALWAYS have to be proactive I have already said i would trade Jacobs, Willingham and perhaps Olsen.Gregg Bye, Hendrickson bye.I'm not saying we should keep Hammer or Jake. Wait? What? So one move that you don't like is a "firesale," now? Also...you made no sense. Why can't we trade Uggla and make a Beckett-type deal? Y'know...a deal where both teams benefit? For some reason, you make it seem as if it's impossible to replace Dan Uggla.
October 1, 200818 yr Author Dallas McPherson vs. righties this year = 1.041 .OPS Gaby Sanchez vs. lefties this year = 1.136 .OPS Lou & Nny have a point here! :thumbup Eric I sugested it! just kidding but you did leave me out
October 1, 200818 yr Yet you and others want to trade this year away and head back to square one. :banghead WAIT CHRIS COUGHLAN IS WAITING TO SAVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :notworthy Jacobs sucks and is replaceable Uggla, while good, IS replaceable, and trading him would improve other parts of the club Hammer is injury prone, so if you want to pay full-time money to a player that might play most of the season, your risk Olsen absolutely sucks away from Dolphin Stadium and can be replaced from within the system Trimming the fat will improve the team, you want to go to the playoffs? Get rid of weaknesses, Jake is a weakness, Hammer isn't reliable, Uggla can be replaced, you won't get the insane production, but you'll get more than adequate production from a Chris Coghlan to justify moving him if we get stud player(s) back... Just returning what we have doesn't guarantee improvement, FO's ALWAYS have to be proactive I have already said i would trade Jacobs, Willingham and perhaps Olsen.Gregg Bye, Hendrickson bye.I'm not saying we should keep Hammer or Jake. Wait? What? So one move that you don't like is a "firesale," now? Also...you made no sense. Why can't we trade Uggla and make a Beckett-type deal? Y'know...a deal where both teams benefit? For some reason, you make it seem as if it's impossible to replace Dan Uggla. We dont have to trade Uggla to get a good return.I'm on board with the keep Uggla at second base crew.
October 1, 200818 yr Are you insinuating that McPherson's range is so superior? If a guy makes errors by not being able to catch routine ground balls and cannot make routine throws and that is not a good measure of defensive ability... than what would be? I'm not insinuating, I'm stating it is. And are errors only for routine ground balls and routine throws? No they are not. So I don't know have any idea what you mean by that statement. Judging a fielder by errors is like judging a hitter by batting average. And more advanced fielding statistics would be. You can see my other thread about them.
October 1, 200818 yr Author Dallas McP is better defensively than Cantu, more range stronger arm. Cantu may give you a higher average but McP will project higher slugging so their OPS should be about the same. I wouldnt mind a platoon at 3rd and first wth Cantu, Dallas and Gabby Sanchez. However its a long way to April, we still have no idea of trades or free agent moves. I would love Uggla to stay but if the right trade comes along Beinfest will take advantage of it I am sure he has a better arm because he is a natural third baseman, but didnt he have a large amount of errors? Errors are a horrible way to judge a player defenisvely. Dallas, before he went down with a back injury, was roughly an average defensive 3b. His back injury probably took him down a bit, but he should still be around average. Cantu, on the other hand, is one of the worst defensive 3b's in the game, he ranked as the second worse 3b this past season. Not only that, but Dallas, the left handed at bat, projects to put up a better OPS than Cantu against RHP. Likewise, Dallas shouldn't even see a LHP. Also, Cantu's defense at 1b is very, very good. That's why putting Cantu at first and Dallas at third against RHP, and Cantu at 3rd and Gaby at first against LHP makes the most sense. Are you insinuating that McPherson's range is so superior? If a guy makes errors by not being able to catch routine ground balls and cannot make routine throws and that is not a good measure of defensive ability... than what would be? Dallas got better defensively as the season progressed...He is stronger defensively just because his range is so much better, and he can make the tough throw to 1st. I believe that is what most teams look for in their 3rd baseman. Is he Mike Schmidt or Brooks Robinson?...No, but no one else is either
October 1, 200818 yr Author Hanley Ramirez is a star, but not of the magnitude of several other stars out there. Name 5, and I'll give you a cookie. Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds until his "death", Johan Santana, Ryan Howard, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter. You will probably disagree on some of those. Howard and Jeter are my weakest. Ichiro would probably bring out some Asian folk. Manny Ramirez can't play a lick of defense...in LF (one of the easiest, if not the easiest position in baseball). He's also getting up there in age. Barry Bonds is no longer playing. Johan Santana is a pitcher. Why would you compare a position player and a pitcher? Makes no sense. Hanley Ramirez is a far more complete player than Ryan Howard...not to mention Hanley Ramirez is also younger, as well. Out of your list...you have 2. Their names are Alex Rodriguez and Albert Pujols. Aside from that...I'll take Hanley Ramirez, thank you. Star Power... I did not say they were more talented. I believe they have bigger names at the moment and can draw more fans. I believe Hanley is not a complete player yet. He is a 30-30 guy but he needs to be moved down in the lineup to maximize his offensive skill set. He may lose some stolen bases, but Hanley needs the RBI's and his defense to get better. But i still believe the marlins did the right thing to build around him. Hanley Ramirez is an excellent lead-off batter, he prefers to lead off, all he needs to do is cut down on the strikeouts and he would be on Ichiro's level as far as lead off hitters and the flaw wasn't his it is a Marlin's approach on hitting that needs to change, It is Fredi style of play that held Ramirez on the basepaths not Ramirez. He Had less SB attempts than he had SBs all last season. I know some here want to justify that the Marlins wanted to avoid injury. I guess that is why Ricky Henderson, Lou Brock and Tim Raines missed so many games because of stealing bases :banghead
October 1, 200818 yr I'm not exactly sure what people want from the front office. This team DOES need a bit of an overhaul. If you bring back the exact same roster, you will just get the same results as this year. They had a good year, but they weren't good enough to become a top team. Do people seriously want to bring back all the same guys next year? I mean, no one is suggesting that the front office is going to get rid of most of the players. I don't think they will. But there's certainly areas that need improvement or else it will be a repeat of this year. Uggla is definitely tradeable, if you get a good package of players for him. Otherwise, its probably not a good idea. If the Giants want to give us Matt Cain for Uggla, we'll think about that one
October 1, 200818 yr If the Giants want to give us Matt Cain for Uggla, we'll think about that one The Giants GM dude has already said that Cain and Lincecum are "untouchables". But they are looking for power and would be interested in Uggla. http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_10595619
October 1, 200818 yr Hanley Ramirez is an excellent lead-off batter, he prefers to lead off, all he needs to do is cut down on the strikeouts and he would be on Ichiro's level as far as lead off hitters and the flaw wasn't his it is a Marlin's approach on hitting that needs to change, It is Fredi style of play that held Ramirez on the basepaths not Ramirez. He Had less SB attempts than he had SBs all last season. I know some here want to justify that the Marlins wanted to avoid injury. I guess that is why Ricky Henderson, Lou Brock and Tim Raines missed so many games because of stealing bases :banghead He is a lot better than Ichiro already. Who cares about SB. They are not making a huge impact on run production. Hanley needs to move to the # 2 or 3 slot so a hitter is in front of him and we can take advantage of his slugging. He'll get used to it.
October 2, 200818 yr I'm going to add to the disagreement about Dan Uggla getting traded. Others have already pointed out that his production is not going to be that easily replaced at his position. Honestly, Uggla had a better OBP this season than our long lost 3B Miguel Cabrera. Among every hitter who was with the team all year, he had the best numbers with RISP. And nevermind the fact that he's also our most solid and consistent defender in an IF that sorely lacks defensive prowess. Nevermind that Coghlan would be a defensive downgrade and possibly also an offensive downgrade. All said, these are just reasons why they shouldn't trade Uggla. The reason why I feel pretty sure that he won't be traded is that Coghlan wasn't called up in September. If the organization thought he was ready enough to consider trading Uggla, they would have brought him up. That, and it would be impossible to get back a comparable 2B in a trade that didn't end up costing us more in salary than what Uggla will be due.
October 2, 200818 yr Let's say Hermida blossoms and Hanley remains Hanley, a team of C-Skipworth, 1b- Gabby or one of the young of converted, 2b- Coghlan, 3b- Dominguez, Lf- Morrison or Stanton, and CF - Maybin... WOOOOW! oh yeah, and we have Raynor who is also solid. That's a lot of projection... Thats what this post is about... and that is precisely what the comment is about... I am excited about the possibilities this team has. I'm excited too, but the problem is you said we are being built for 2011. I don't buy that. I think next year is the year for us. You are projecting 2 guys who are in class A, 1 guy who is only in short season ball and three who have never even played in the majors to be starting for a championship caliber team in two years? Yes, lots to be excited about, but to say we are gearing up for a championship run based on that many rookies is crazy, IMO. where did I say championship run? I dont think you can get rid of 3/4 or half the infield next year and a couple OF's and expect the same success... I believe this team is built for 2011 in the sense that that is when we will see some longevity with the players and the excitement will be there for all of these players to come up and start playing and lead this team into the future
October 2, 200818 yr Yes sir... but the point I am making is that Hanley alone wont put butts in the seats because... he doesnt have the star power... I did not say why he didnt have the star power and I did not say his play had anything to do with it. I simply said, "he doesnt have the star power".
October 2, 200818 yr I don't understand the assumption that unproven minor leaguers would perform on par or better than what we have currently on the field. I guess those are the perfect fans for this team and would never be dissapointed with any of the FO moves I agree completely with this post. addition by subtraction = a reliance on unproven players after a successful season such as this one
October 2, 200818 yr I don't understand the assumption that unproven minor leaguers would perform on par or better than what we have currently on the field. I guess those are the perfect fans for this team and would never be dissapointed with any of the FO moves I don't understand those who call getting rid of replaceable players like Mike Jacobs, Kevin Gregg, and Scott Olsen a "firesale." Also...all these players were once minor leaguers. They are called prospects, for a reason. If the organization doesn't have trust in some of its prospects...it's going nowhere. Those players are replaceable. Not everyone on this board concurs with your opinion as to who is leaving. Speculation by Cote, the article quoted in this section, suggests that Uggla, Cantu, Olsen, Hermida, Willingham, and Ross could be out of here. That is 5 starters or 4 if you discount Ross and a guy that just gave you 200 innings, where no one else recently for the Marlins has.
October 2, 200818 yr I don't understand the assumption that unproven minor leaguers would perform on par or better than what we have currently on the field. I guess those are the perfect fans for this team and would never be dissapointed with any of the FO moves See im kinda with you on this. Im confident in Maybin but thats about it. Sanchez im fine with coming in cause Jake was terrible on d and only hit for power. Olsen i dont want to leave only cause im not sold on miller being ready or Anibal ever fully being back. Most teams would love to have olsen in their 4th spot. So many people seem to fall in love with guys in the minors and think its the same as the bigs and when they get here it will be a seamless change for them.
October 2, 200818 yr And who did we get for Beckett? Hanley Ramirez, right? Anibal Sanchez, right? And, for what it's worth...you're wrong. Beckett had an outstanding 2007 season. In 2006, however, he had a 5.01 ERA, and allowed 36 HR's. He was nothing to brag about this year either with a 12-10 record / 4.03 ERA. Again...if there's a Beckett, there is no Hanley Ramirez. You have to look at it both ways. That is not the point.The point is the ownerships habit of trading away players once their price tag raises.You can expect the same again and again.Hanley Ramirez may be gone as well with this unpredictably cheap owner. AND WE DID BETTER THIS YEAR THAN IN EVERY YEAR THAT DIDN'T RESULT IN A WORLD SERIES... WITHOUT MIGGY, WITHOUT DONTRELLE, WITHOUT BECKETT, WITHOUT DELGADO, WITHOUT LOWELL, WITHOUT ALL THE BIG NAMES... THE NAMES DON'T MATTER IN THE LONG RUN :banghead And we missed the postseason... and we won't give this team an opportunity to do it again. And Miguel Cabrera was pooped on by the media and everyone saying Cantu replaced him. I bet he was sorely missed when we couldnt score runs for a long stretch in August and Miggy was quietly leading the AL in Hr's and third in RBI. ON A BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD Year
October 2, 200818 yr And Miguel Cabrera was pooped on by the media and everyone saying Cantu replaced him. I bet he was sorely missed when we couldnt score runs for a long stretch in August and Miggy was quietly leading the AL in Hr's and third in RBI. ON A BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD Year Miggy's killer August was not in Dolphin Stadium, and it is not as if Cantu wasn't raking at the time.
October 2, 200818 yr And Miguel Cabrera was pooped on by the media and everyone saying Cantu replaced him. I bet he was sorely missed when we couldnt score runs for a long stretch in August and Miggy was quietly leading the AL in Hr's and third in RBI. ON A BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD Year Miggy's killer August was not in Dolphin Stadium, and it is not as if Cantu wasn't raking at the time. No, you are right... Miguel's contract was earned playing in Dolphin Stadium... I don't think Miggy had a problem hitting at any point of his career. And Cantu did not rake at the time. He went into the second half of the season hitting in the 300, 295 range and ended at 277. And Miguel Cabrera theoretically could have been at 1B with Cantu at third.
October 2, 200818 yr And who did we get for Beckett? Hanley Ramirez, right? Anibal Sanchez, right? And, for what it's worth...you're wrong. Beckett had an outstanding 2007 season. In 2006, however, he had a 5.01 ERA, and allowed 36 HR's. He was nothing to brag about this year either with a 12-10 record / 4.03 ERA. Again...if there's a Beckett, there is no Hanley Ramirez. You have to look at it both ways. That is not the point.The point is the ownerships habit of trading away players once their price tag raises.You can expect the same again and again.Hanley Ramirez may be gone as well with this unpredictably cheap owner. AND WE DID BETTER THIS YEAR THAN IN EVERY YEAR THAT DIDN'T RESULT IN A WORLD SERIES... WITHOUT MIGGY, WITHOUT DONTRELLE, WITHOUT BECKETT, WITHOUT DELGADO, WITHOUT LOWELL, WITHOUT ALL THE BIG NAMES... THE NAMES DON'T MATTER IN THE LONG RUN :banghead And we missed the postseason... and we won't give this team an opportunity to do it again. Because, its obvious, this team is good, but not good enough to take the next step. The front office isn't going to bring back the same cast of characters next year and see the exact same season unfold. They aren't stupid.
October 2, 200818 yr No, you are right... You should have stopped there. And Miguel Cabrera theoretically could have been at 1B with Cantu at third. Jorge Cantu would have never gotten a call from the Marlins if Miggy was on the team.
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