With all the things this team needs, I don't think it would be wise to spend money on an injury prone starting pitcher....and starting pitching is something that SHOULD be a strength next year.

I think Ricky and JJ will be strong in the rotation, but beyond that , I don't believe that we are set as far as starting pitching goes. Now that's not to say that Penny fills our biggest need, because we don't have a reliable and consistent LHP in the rotation (or ready to join it), but I certainly don't think we are anything close to set with a solid 1-5 rotation. Penny would be good to have, even if for only half a season.

 

And if the price tag turns out to be really low, and we have such concerns about his health, we could give him a shot in the bullpen as well. I don't see any reason to think he couldn't perform well there.

 

I dunno...

 

I think Nolasco, Johnson, and Volstad are a very solid 1,2,3. Andrew Miller also has brilliant stuff....of course he's still an unknown, but if he turns it on, he can be very, very good (see that really good month he had this year). The biggest unknown to me is Anibal.

 

I'm more concerned about the bullpen.

Brad Penny is still going to get paid (handsomely) by some team. Forget it.

Penny wasnt homegrown.

 

 

YES techinically he WAS. He was drafted by the D-Backs in 96', pitched for their minor league system for a few years, than was traded to Florida. He pitched half a season in our minor leagues where he learned a few things. In my opinion he is homegrown.

 

For me, a homegrown guy is a guy we drafted, or at least a guy that spent 2-3 years in our farm system. I've never considered guys like Maybin homegrown because we really didn't find him in the draft, we paid the price of a superstar to get him.

Penny wasnt homegrown.

 

 

YES techinically he WAS. He was drafted by the D-Backs in 96', pitched for their minor league system for a few years, than was traded to Florida. He pitched half a season in our minor leagues where he learned a few things. In my opinion he is homegrown.

 

Really? I've never seen anyone so wrong think they are so right.

 

 

:lol :lol

With all the things this team needs, I don't think it would be wise to spend money on an injury prone starting pitcher....and starting pitching is something that SHOULD be a strength next year.

 

 

 

Wouldn't our [potential] SP depth a reason WHY we should take a risk on a guy who might make a big comeback from an injury? I mean, certainly the price would have to be right.......but with our arms, we can afford to have him get hurt and have no problem filling his spot. But, if he can be healthy and perform, he could be a great addition. Of course, if we are going to pay him several million, there might be a better place to put it (catcher, bullpen?)

 

On another note, what's Mark Prior's status? Would he be cheaper/more expensive than Penny at this point? Does he have any upside left?

With all the things this team needs, I don't think it would be wise to spend money on an injury prone starting pitcher....and starting pitching is something that SHOULD be a strength next year.

 

 

 

Wouldn't our [potential] SP depth a reason WHY we should take a risk on a guy who might make a big comeback from an injury? I mean, certainly the price would have to be right.......but with our arms, we can afford to have him get hurt and have no problem filling his spot. But, if he can be healthy and perform, he could be a great addition. Of course, if we are going to pay him several million, there might be a better place to put it (catcher, bullpen?)

 

On another note, what's Mark Prior's status? Would he be cheaper/more expensive than Penny at this point? Does he have any upside left?

 

I don't think Prior even has downside left.

Prior is in an extensive rehab program in San Diego and is scheduled to be ready for Opening Day (whether that's San Diego or a minor league team, who knows)

I wouldnt mind having Bradley...i mean Brad Penny back in Teal.

 

but i think someone will offer much more $$$ and he'll go that route.

I would love to have Penny back. He better than Olsen and Anibal. The thing with getting him is that he doesn't have any potential. He as good now as he ever will be. Plus, why sign him for 1 year when we can use that money for Nolasco or JJ for 3 years? And even though Penny is better thanOlsen and Anibal now, they still have potential. Penny is even more injury prone than Anibal anyways, so we might be better off without him, but I would love him here anyways.

No real LHP, no bullpen, and we're thinking about this guy??? Plus, he won't come cheap.

No real LHP, no bullpen, and we're thinking about this guy??? Plus, he won't come cheap.

 

 

Really? 'Ya sure?

No real LHP, no bullpen, and we're thinking about this guy??? Plus, he won't come cheap.

 

 

Really? 'Ya sure?

 

 

Not positive, no, but if everyone's saying we're going to trade Olsen, and Miller isn't something solid then who's our left handed pitcher? I mean sure, Miller had a good month and there's a chance that we keep Olsen, but nothing is 100%. Our bullpen failed us quite a few times this year. Pinto, Waechter, Kensing, Nelson (who was called the king of allowing inherited runs score), all these guys weren't spectacular. So who would be in our bullpen? I'm just saying the Marlins should not waste money on an expensive Penny, before straightening out some kinks.

Quality of pitcher is more important than whether he's left handed or right handed. Good pitchers can get both out.

Not positive, no, but if everyone's saying we're going to trade Olsen, and Miller isn't something solid then who's our left handed pitcher? I mean sure, Miller had a good month and there's a chance that we keep Olsen, but nothing is 100%. Our bullpen failed us quite a few times this year. Pinto, Waechter, Kensing, Nelson (who was called the king of allowing inherited runs score), all these guys weren't spectacular. So who would be in our bullpen? I'm just saying the Marlins should not waste money on an expensive Penny, before straightening out some kinks.

 

Miller is young, raw and inexperienced. He also "lead" all pitchers in DIPS (Defense independent pitching stats) which means he was HIGHLY unlucky. He still K'd almost 8/9IP and while he walked 5 or so... that's more a function of being rushed in the Detroit system. Miller should be a stud in a few seasons and pretty good shortly.

 

Olsen isn't spectacular and has probably, more than likely, peaked. He's tried his hand at being a strikeout pitcher and he's tried for "finesse" so we've seen pretty much all he can be.

 

As for the bullpen, they failed us down the stretch mostly because they were tremendously overworked the first half. That shouldn't happen this year with a healthy starting rotation out of the gate.

 

Ultimately though, unless Penny wants to come back, on the cheap.... which I doubt, pass on him

Not positive, no, but if everyone's saying we're going to trade Olsen, and Miller isn't something solid then who's our left handed pitcher? I mean sure, Miller had a good month and there's a chance that we keep Olsen, but nothing is 100%. Our bullpen failed us quite a few times this year. Pinto, Waechter, Kensing, Nelson (who was called the king of allowing inherited runs score), all these guys weren't spectacular. So who would be in our bullpen? I'm just saying the Marlins should not waste money on an expensive Penny, before straightening out some kinks.

 

Miller is young, raw and inexperienced. He also "lead" all pitchers in DIPS (Defense independent pitching stats) which means he was HIGHLY unlucky. He still K'd almost 8/9IP and while he walked 5 or so... that's more a function of being rushed in the Detroit system. Miller should be a stud in a few seasons and pretty good shortly.

 

Olsen isn't spectacular and has probably, more than likely, peaked. He's tried his hand at being a strikeout pitcher and he's tried for "finesse" so we've seen pretty much all he can be.

 

As for the bullpen, they failed us down the stretch mostly because they were tremendously overworked the first half. That shouldn't happen this year with a healthy starting rotation out of the gate.

 

Ultimately though, unless Penny wants to come back, on the cheap.... which I doubt, pass on him

 

Awww.... I'd like to give Olsen the benefit of the doubt! From some of the games I watched, he was just unlucky. Plus I love it when players say they'd like to stay with the team (though we can't be sure if they mean it), and I know that him and Jacobs have said it... actually Amezega said it too.

 

Other than that, I agree with everything you wrote. Particularly with Miller, I just hope that he can step it up this next season... um, pretty spot on!

If anything Olsen was lucky with all the flyballs and homeruns he gave up. I'm surprised his numbers were that "decent." He certainly improved from 2007, but his season was nothing spectacular. He started the season off strong, but was very homer happy for the rest of the season. I'm too lazy to look up the stats, but his flyball/groundball ratio must have been bad.

Not positive, no, but if everyone's saying we're going to trade Olsen, and Miller isn't something solid then who's our left handed pitcher? I mean sure, Miller had a good month and there's a chance that we keep Olsen, but nothing is 100%. Our bullpen failed us quite a few times this year. Pinto, Waechter, Kensing, Nelson (who was called the king of allowing inherited runs score), all these guys weren't spectacular. So who would be in our bullpen? I'm just saying the Marlins should not waste money on an expensive Penny, before straightening out some kinks.

 

Miller is young, raw and inexperienced. He also "lead" all pitchers in DIPS (Defense independent pitching stats) which means he was HIGHLY unlucky. He still K'd almost 8/9IP and while he walked 5 or so... that's more a function of being rushed in the Detroit system. Miller should be a stud in a few seasons and pretty good shortly.

 

Olsen isn't spectacular and has probably, more than likely, peaked. He's tried his hand at being a strikeout pitcher and he's tried for "finesse" so we've seen pretty much all he can be.

 

As for the bullpen, they failed us down the stretch mostly because they were tremendously overworked the first half. That shouldn't happen this year with a healthy starting rotation out of the gate.

 

Ultimately though, unless Penny wants to come back, on the cheap.... which I doubt, pass on him

 

Awww.... I'd like to give Olsen the benefit of the doubt! From some of the games I watched, he was just unlucky. Plus I love it when players say they'd like to stay with the team (though we can't be sure if they mean it), and I know that him and Jacobs have said it... actually Amezega said it too.

 

Other than that, I agree with everything you wrote. Particularly with Miller, I just hope that he can step it up this next season... um, pretty spot on!

 

Well the ironic thing is... the DIPS say Olsen was pretty average, if actually leaning closer to benefiting from good luck... also, maybe you've read something I haven't but I thought I read somewhere he wasn't particularly wanting to come back. I guess a winning season changes things.

Miller replacing Olsen in the rotation next year will be a good thing, despite all the question marks around Andrew. Without any stats to back me up, I've always felt Olsen gets hit particularly hard within the division. The Mets, Phillies, and Braves made their adjustments to his new style of pitching in the second half. I'm too lazy to look it up, but it would be interesting to see his numbers against those teams in the first half compared to the second half. If there is a drop off, it's not because Olsen was doing anything different.

Not positive, no, but if everyone's saying we're going to trade Olsen, and Miller isn't something solid then who's our left handed pitcher? I mean sure, Miller had a good month and there's a chance that we keep Olsen, but nothing is 100%. Our bullpen failed us quite a few times this year. Pinto, Waechter, Kensing, Nelson (who was called the king of allowing inherited runs score), all these guys weren't spectacular. So who would be in our bullpen? I'm just saying the Marlins should not waste money on an expensive Penny, before straightening out some kinks.

 

Miller is young, raw and inexperienced. He also "lead" all pitchers in DIPS (Defense independent pitching stats) which means he was HIGHLY unlucky. He still K'd almost 8/9IP and while he walked 5 or so... that's more a function of being rushed in the Detroit system. Miller should be a stud in a few seasons and pretty good shortly.

 

Olsen isn't spectacular and has probably, more than likely, peaked. He's tried his hand at being a strikeout pitcher and he's tried for "finesse" so we've seen pretty much all he can be.

 

As for the bullpen, they failed us down the stretch mostly because they were tremendously overworked the first half. That shouldn't happen this year with a healthy starting rotation out of the gate.

 

Ultimately though, unless Penny wants to come back, on the cheap.... which I doubt, pass on him

 

You're right about the fact that Miller has talent but was seriously rushed. The problem is, acknowledging that isn't going to turn him into a good pitcher. I don't know if handing him a spot in the rotation right from the beginning is the right move. Pitching him in the majors over and over hasn't taught him anything yet, is it magically going to do it now? I'm not sure, and I think it's going to take some real work and good coaching to teach Miller how to really pitch.

You're right about the fact that Miller has talent but was seriously rushed. The problem is, acknowledging that isn't going to turn him into a good pitcher. I don't know if handing him a spot in the rotation right from the beginning is the right move. Pitching him in the majors over and over hasn't taught him anything yet, is it magically going to do it now? I'm not sure, and I think it's going to take some real work and good coaching to teach Miller how to really pitch.

 

Miller's going to have the offseason and ST this time with us... and since we're out of that useless hole of a minor league team in AAA and now have somewhere we can send pitchers, we have alternatives.

 

The only reason we couldn't really send him to the minors is because he'd kill in AA based on just his fastball, if he falters in ST and the coaching staff feels like he's not ready, we send him to AAA, no harm, no foul. He's shown that he can compete at this level, it's a matter of not beating himself and cleaning his mechanics.

 

I also think his bad knee... and it was bad when we got him from DET... played a large part in being able to repeat mechanics, especially given the humid S. Florida weather. Now that that should be healed, he should be good to go.

You're right about the fact that Miller has talent but was seriously rushed. The problem is, acknowledging that isn't going to turn him into a good pitcher. I don't know if handing him a spot in the rotation right from the beginning is the right move. Pitching him in the majors over and over hasn't taught him anything yet, is it magically going to do it now? I'm not sure, and I think it's going to take some real work and good coaching to teach Miller how to really pitch.

 

Miller's going to have the offseason and ST this time with us... and since we're out of that useless hole of a minor league team in AAA and now have somewhere we can send pitchers, we have alternatives.

 

The only reason we couldn't really send him to the minors is because he'd kill in AA based on just his fastball, if he falters in ST and the coaching staff feels like he's not ready, we send him to AAA, no harm, no foul. He's shown that he can compete at this level, it's a matter of not beating himself and cleaning his mechanics.

 

I also think his bad knee... and it was bad when we got him from DET... played a large part in being able to repeat mechanics, especially given the humid S. Florida weather. Now that that should be healed, he should be good to go.

 

I really think we need to start him in AAA and have the coaching staff there really work with him on consistency. He needs to have a complete stretch where he dominates AND learns the type of command he needs to be successful up here. David Price is showing how dominant a wicked lefty can be as long as they can come close to the plate. Miller could be that guy but I want him to earn the rotation spot.

If he's cheep stash him in the Hendrickson role. Start off by starting the go into middle relief when we call Miller up which is what I think they should do to Miller for more control and an overall polished game.

Not AAA, for some reason I just prefer players to go to AA even if we are moving to New Orleans this year.

Not positive, no, but if everyone's saying we're going to trade Olsen, and Miller isn't something solid then who's our left handed pitcher? I mean sure, Miller had a good month and there's a chance that we keep Olsen, but nothing is 100%. Our bullpen failed us quite a few times this year. Pinto, Waechter, Kensing, Nelson (who was called the king of allowing inherited runs score), all these guys weren't spectacular. So who would be in our bullpen? I'm just saying the Marlins should not waste money on an expensive Penny, before straightening out some kinks.

 

Miller is young, raw and inexperienced. He also "lead" all pitchers in DIPS (Defense independent pitching stats) which means he was HIGHLY unlucky. He still K'd almost 8/9IP and while he walked 5 or so... that's more a function of being rushed in the Detroit system. Miller should be a stud in a few seasons and pretty good shortly.

 

Olsen isn't spectacular and has probably, more than likely, peaked. He's tried his hand at being a strikeout pitcher and he's tried for "finesse" so we've seen pretty much all he can be.

 

As for the bullpen, they failed us down the stretch mostly because they were tremendously overworked the first half. That shouldn't happen this year with a healthy starting rotation out of the gate.

 

Ultimately though, unless Penny wants to come back, on the cheap.... which I doubt, pass on him

 

Awww.... I'd like to give Olsen the benefit of the doubt! From some of the games I watched, he was just unlucky. Plus I love it when players say they'd like to stay with the team (though we can't be sure if they mean it), and I know that him and Jacobs have said it... actually Amezega said it too.

 

Other than that, I agree with everything you wrote. Particularly with Miller, I just hope that he can step it up this next season... um, pretty spot on!

 

Well the ironic thing is... the DIPS say Olsen was pretty average, if actually leaning closer to benefiting from good luck... also, maybe you've read something I haven't but I thought I read somewhere he wasn't particularly wanting to come back. I guess a winning season changes things.

 

 

I think my comment on being unlucky probably stems from, the fish not giving him much run support, and that I've seen some of his winning opportunties destroyed by blown saves. However, this guy also can't hold on to a lead... I don't know if this makes sense, but like all three of these reasons combined led to a not so hot record. I mean, he wasn't lights out this year but to have an 8-11 record after starting 33 games? He wasn't that bad.

 

It was maybe two months ago I read it (that Olsen wanted to stay). They were asking him about arbitration and he said he would love to play a full season with Nolasco, Johnson and Volstad, and see how it would work out. He also said he didn't much care about his record (after a game where he received a no decision, with the bullpen blowing the lead), because he hopes to stay here awhile. Sorry I can't find it. I've been on a mission looking for the article, but I can't remember where I read it.

 

Found a small tidbit though:

• Scott Olsen said he prefers to be back with the Marlins in '09 but conceded that the Marlins may prefer to move him due to his arbitration eligibility.
  

Oh found it!!! Here it is:

 

Scott Olsen would like to remain with the Marlins next season, if only to see how the current rotation would perform over the course of an entire campaign.

 

But Olsen, who is one of the team's three starters eligible for arbitration after this season, also is aware that he could be the odd man out in that group as the Marlins decide which pitchers to keep.

 

---

 

Olsen, Johnson and Nolasco are eligible for arbitration after this season.

 

''They can't bring everybody back,'' Olsen said. ``Well, they could, but they probably won't. I might not be back, but I'd like to be here. I hope I get to stay around, but you never know.''

Miller is making around $1.3 next year. The Marlins aren't stashing that in AAA.

 

This is the 2008 DIPS performance of our six starters.

 

Volstad 2.88 - 3.85 (1.34%)

Olsen 4.20 - 4.85 (1.16%)

Nolasco 3.52 - 3.67 (1.04%)

Johnson 3.61 - 3.41 (.95%)

Sanchez 5.57 - 4.65 (.83%)

Miller 5.87 - 3.96 (.67%)

 

Miller was the unluckiest pitcher in baseball last year when it came to hits falling. He's going to be fine. He was good in 11/20 starts, and overall very good in May/June when you splits out the year. His K numbers are good, so are his HR numbers. The hits will average off, which just leaves the walks as an issue. Regardless, all of these things should improve with age as well. I find it very likely both Anibal and Miller can match Olsen's low 4 era performance next year. If they somehow keep Olsen, I would imagine Anibal is in the pen as his injury issues supersede Millers.