December 15, 200817 yr Author Why do you think the market would be limited? Just because you would want to trade Uggla in July doesn't mean that there will be a buyer that needs a 2B.
December 15, 200817 yr With the OBP situation being as it is, trading Uggla at what could be the peak of his career for a package of prospects and calling up an OBP god like Coghlan makes too much sense.
December 15, 200817 yr With the OBP situation being as it is, trading Uggla at what could be the peak of his career for a package of prospects and calling up an OBP god like Coghlan makes too much sense. Coghlan is an unproven prospect. Dan Uggla was 6th in OBP out of all 2B last year. No reason to trade him for any "OBP situation".
December 15, 200817 yr Why do you think the market would be limited? Just because you would want to trade Uggla in July doesn't mean that there will be a buyer that needs a 2B. Uggla was the fifth best defender at a thin position last year and the third best bat (in terms of OPS). I'm sure someone would bite.
December 15, 200817 yr With the OBP situation being as it is, trading Uggla at what could be the peak of his career for a package of prospects and calling up an OBP god like Coghlan makes too much sense. Coghlan is an unproven prospect. Dan Uggla was 6th in OBP out of all 2B last year. No reason to trade him for any "OBP situation". Wasn't doubting Uggla's ability to get on base. The point was that by the looks of it, Coghlan would produce on a similar level as Uggla, in my opinion in terms of OBP. Factor in the package Uggla would bring back and it's a no-brainer.
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening.
December 15, 200817 yr The Marlins should keep Uggla for many reasons, but none better than the signal it sends to the local market. Basically: this team is here to win.
December 15, 200817 yr With the OBP situation being as it is, trading Uggla at what could be the peak of his career for a package of prospects and calling up an OBP god like Coghlan makes too much sense. Coghlan is an unproven prospect. Dan Uggla was 6th in OBP out of all 2B last year. No reason to trade him for any "OBP situation". Wasn't doubting Uggla's ability to get on base. The point was that by the looks of it, Coghlan would produce on a similar level as Uggla, in my opinion in terms of OBP. Factor in the package Uggla would bring back and it's a no-brainer. I disagree, at least at first. I don't think Coghlan will be able to get on-base as much as Uggla does when he first comes up here. This is not the year for that.
December 15, 200817 yr They're trying to win this year, trading him now would automatically end that plan. I can definitely see them planning to trade him next offseason though, or maybe in July if they're out of the running and a team really wants him.
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. Just what is it about Coghlan that is so gosh darn special? The guy doesn't project to bring half the production that Uggla can. Just because we have him in our system doesn't mean we should trade one of our best players to make it happen.
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. Just what is it about Coghlan that is so gosh darn special? The guy doesn't project to bring half the production that Uggla can. Just because we have him in our system doesn't mean we should trade one of our best players to make it happen. Stop dispelling the treasured myth of the next guy!
December 15, 200817 yr It depends on how you define longterm. If they want to buy 2 years, which is what Texas did with Teixeira, no problem. Anything more is very bad payroll management because we would be paying a premium price for Uggla right now coming off his peak year, and it's doubtful he remains a high 800 OPS because of his contact issues. Dishing him a 5 year contract, which is what I think you mean, would be horrific. He is not a star like Hanley. And this is especially true with Coghlan and Bonifacio around. We have his rights for 3 years, not a big deal. He's not going anywhere if we want him. The only players the Marlins should be thinking about buy outs are Maybin, and all 5 starting pitchers. Whoever shows up next year, should get 5+ year contracts from that group. Everyone else, including Hermida even if he OPS's .900 next year, should not be bought out at this time. Maybin isn't even due arbitration for quite some time. I would rather wait until we see what he can do over an extended period. I'm not partial to that buy now and save $$$ down the line theory. It can work, but when it dosen't you are stuck. We can't afford to be stuck. And all 5 SPs? I'm not into signing any pitcher long term. Much less a bunch of kids that really haven't shown they can be huge innings eaters that can go injury free for the long haul. I would prefer to keep stocking the minors with studs and pay the SPs per year.
December 15, 200817 yr It depends on how you define longterm. If they want to buy 2 years, which is what Texas did with Teixeira, no problem. Anything more is very bad payroll management because we would be paying a premium price for Uggla right now coming off his peak year, and it's doubtful he remains a high 800 OPS because of his contact issues. Dishing him a 5 year contract, which is what I think you mean, would be horrific. He is not a star like Hanley. And this is especially true with Coghlan and Bonifacio around. We have his rights for 3 years, not a big deal. He's not going anywhere if we want him. The only players the Marlins should be thinking about buy outs are Maybin, and all 5 starting pitchers. Whoever shows up next year, should get 5+ year contracts from that group. Everyone else, including Hermida even if he OPS's .900 next year, should not be bought out at this time. Maybin isn't even due arbitration for quite some time. I would rather wait until we see what he can do over an extended period. I'm not partial to that buy now and save $$$ down the line theory. It can work, but when it dosen't you are stuck. We can't afford to be stuck. And all 5 SPs? I'm not into signing any pitcher long term. Much less a bunch of kids that really haven't shown they can be huge innings eaters that can go injury free for the long haul. I would prefer to keep stocking the minors with studs and pay the SPs per year. That's not what he's trying to say :banghead He just means that everyone else on that roster is even a potential candidate for a buyout. He wouldn't even touch Uggla, Cody, Baker, etc. The only guys who could even potentially be in that discussion at some point are Maybin and the pitching staff. Obviously we'd want to tread very carefully with buyouts/long(er)-term deals, but these are the only guys with whom he sees the possibility of talks opening up at some point for a potential buyout. I can't really say it any other way without wasting effort that should be spent cramming for my econ final.
December 15, 200817 yr Why do you think the market would be limited? Just because you would want to trade Uggla in July doesn't mean that there will be a buyer that needs a 2B. The reason I ask you this is that I'm not sure why you would say that there would not be a buyer. I would imagine that a number of teams will be fighting for playoff spots. Also, there will be injuries. No doubt there. Uggla has proven to be an above average player. I'm confused as to why you would think that there might not be a buyer. This year is no different than any other. Teams will add players before the deadline. Others will shed players. Thats the way it works. I don't expect this pattern to suddenly change.
December 15, 200817 yr Why do you think the market would be limited? Just because you would want to trade Uggla in July doesn't mean that there will be a buyer that needs a 2B. The reason I ask you this is that I'm not sure why you would say that there would not be a buyer. I would imagine that a number of teams will be fighting for playoff spots. Also, there will be injuries. No doubt there. Uggla has proven to be an above average player. I'm confused as to why you would think that there might not be a buyer. This year is no different than any other. Teams will add players before the deadline. Others will shed players. Thats the way it works. I don't expect this pattern to suddenly change. There will always be a buyer. Teams stock up even if they already have a player at that position, not that its always the smart thing to do but thats what they do. I can just imagine a team like the Yankees picking him up (and maybe even flipping us Cano if he isn't performing) and putting him anywhere in their IF, at first, or at DH. Of course thats dependent on who they pick up in FA but you get the picture.
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. Just what is it about Coghlan that is so gosh darn special? The guy doesn't project to bring half the production that Uggla can. Just because we have him in our system doesn't mean we should trade one of our best players to make it happen. Coghlan at the minor league level looks just as special, if not more special, as Uggla did at the minor league level.
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. He's projected to be a solid defender. How do you know he has "no D?" Have you ever watched him play?
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. He's projected to be a solid defender. How do you know he has "no D?" Have you ever watched him play? No, but when a scouting report states you have below average defense he probably does.
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. He's projected to be a solid defender. How do you know he has "no D?" Have you ever watched him play? did you know that Coughlen had more errors in the minors than Uggla had at the major league level?
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. He's projected to be a solid defender. How do you know he has "no D?" Have you ever watched him play? did you know that Coughlen had more errors in the minors than Uggla had at the major league level? Errors aren't a great measure of defense...
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. He's projected to be a solid defender. How do you know he has "no D?" Have you ever watched him play? did you know that Coughlen had more errors in the minors than Uggla had at the major league level? Errors aren't a great measure of defense... actually, they really are.
December 15, 200817 yr When Coghlan finally learns to field his position, if he ever does, he very well could push Uggla out his starting 2nd base role and maybe elsewhere in a trade. But as long as CC has no D and the Marlins are contending in 2009 I suspect there is little chance of it happening. He's projected to be a solid defender. How do you know he has "no D?" Have you ever watched him play? did you know that Coughlen had more errors in the minors than Uggla had at the major league level? Errors aren't a great measure of defense... actually, they really are. ] Oh boy. You have a lot to learn, my friend. To be brief, we cannot rely on errors to measure defensive ability when they are not applied to identical situations.
December 15, 200817 yr actually, they really are. Ok... hypothetical situation... Player A has average range and makes only 10 errors in a season... but Player B has twice the range of Player A and has 16 errors... who's the better fielder? Or... you can use a more appropriate analogy... Player A has been playing his position (more than) twice as long as Player B... Player A has fewer errors than Player B... Player B is still learning the position... So... no, they aren't... there's WAY more to defense than errors... thanks for playing
December 15, 200817 yr Whats the best way to measure defense then i heard of VROP but i have no clue what the formula is can somebody help me?
December 16, 200817 yr Whats the best way to measure defense then i heard of VROP but i have no clue what the formula is can somebody help me? VORP is not a defensive stat :blink:
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