How determined are the Marlins not to help their former manager, Joe Girardi? When top infield coach Perry Hill decided to return to baseball this year, the Marlins told him he couldn't work for the Girardi-managed Yankees (or any team in the Marlins' division). So Hill, who had time left on his Marlins deal, joined Pittsburgh.

 

From the Miami Herald

Pittsburgh has a more fractured infield than we do, sadly.

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

 

 

it's a very small sample size, not even the regular season...we will see how the defense is in May before I start to judge if the new players bring better defense or not.

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

 

 

it's a very small sample size, not even the regular season...we will see how the defense is in May before I start to judge if the new players bring better defense or not.

 

 

Bingo... and some guys are learning new positions or playing out of position altogether... anybody that worries about ANYTHING in Spring Training, sans injury or a complete ineptitude to do ANYTHING with a ball needs to adjust perspective.

 

The numbers are incredibly hard to read into and ultimately don't mean a thing in the long run.

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

 

like those below have said, small sample size

 

addition by subtraction to begin with, Gaby is an above average 1B, Hanley should continue improving as well. Maybin in CF helps a ton as well

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

 

 

it's a very small sample size, not even the regular season...we will see how the defense is in May before I start to judge if the new players bring better defense or not.

 

 

Bingo... and some guys are learning new positions or playing out of position altogether... anybody that worries about ANYTHING in Spring Training, sans injury or a complete ineptitude to do ANYTHING with a ball needs to adjust perspective.

 

The numbers are incredibly hard to read into and ultimately don't mean a thing in the long run.

Last year we posted high error and K totals in ST and they translated into the regular season so obviously spring stats do count for something.

 

And how do guys like Bonifaco and Hermida learning new positions relate to guys like Hanley, Uggla, and Gaby erroring on a regular basis?

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

 

 

it's a very small sample size, not even the regular season...we will see how the defense is in May before I start to judge if the new players bring better defense or not.

 

 

Bingo... and some guys are learning new positions or playing out of position altogether... anybody that worries about ANYTHING in Spring Training, sans injury or a complete ineptitude to do ANYTHING with a ball needs to adjust perspective.

 

The numbers are incredibly hard to read into and ultimately don't mean a thing in the long run.

Last year we posted high error and K totals in ST and they translated into the regular season so obviously spring stats do count for something.

 

And how do guys like Bonifaco and Hermida learning new positions relate to guys like Hanley, Uggla, and Gaby erroring on a regular basis?

 

WOW. My head just exploded with this horrible logic. Sure, we'd rather see Hanley, Uggla, and Gaby not making errors at their natural positions, but they did just get to camp. Give it time.

Tell me how exactly it's horrible logic. And after six games, making fundamental little league errors shouldn't be happening.

Also, really, the only bad defensive parts of last year's regular season were Cantu at 3B and Jacobs at first... one of them isn't returning and the other has a foot in the door at 1B if Gaby needs more time in the minors. Everyone else was really average or above (

Tell me how exactly it's horrible logic. And after six games, making fundamental little league errors shouldn't be happening.

 

To guys like Hanley and Uggla, they're not super-mega-ultra serious defensively right now, they're just going through the motions to get back into game shape, offensively and defensively... same really goes for all incumbent starters. Same probably goes for Gaby along with nerves from having the first base job to lose this spring.

I think the added bulk that Hanley has is going to affect his fielding negatively.

 

But thats just me.

 

 

Andy Fox sucks as a coach also.

Last year we posted high error and K totals in ST and they translated into the regular season so obviously spring stats do count for something.

 

And how do guys like Bonifaco and Hermida learning new positions relate to guys like Hanley, Uggla, and Gaby erroring on a regular basis?

 

WOW. My head just exploded with this horrible logic. Sure, we'd rather see Hanley, Uggla, and Gaby not making errors at their natural positions, but they did just get to camp. Give it time.

 

 

Tell me how exactly it's horrible logic. And after six games, making fundamental little league errors shouldn't be happening.

 

Because something happened in spring training (I'll assume that you are right about last year's K + E totals in spring training), and we also had high K + E totals during the year, then we can establish that there is "obviously" a connection between the two?

This is a correlation, which is distinct from any sort of causation, which (causation) is what you are implying.

Still not clear?

I'm taking Philosophy of Science right now, and these kinds of fallacies are exactly what we are exploring. It is certainly possible that there is a connection between ST performance and regular season performance. In no way does your "empirical" example prove it, nor anything close to that. In fact, there are many, many explanations and empirical examples which point to the contrary. It doesn't mean those are absolutely correct either, but there is in no way "obvious(ly)" that "spring stats do count for something".

Last year we posted high error and K totals in ST and they translated into the regular season so obviously spring stats do count for something.

 

And how do guys like Bonifaco and Hermida learning new positions relate to guys like Hanley, Uggla, and Gaby erroring on a regular basis?

 

WOW. My head just exploded with this horrible logic. Sure, we'd rather see Hanley, Uggla, and Gaby not making errors at their natural positions, but they did just get to camp. Give it time.

 

 

Tell me how exactly it's horrible logic. And after six games, making fundamental little league errors shouldn't be happening.

 

Because something happened in spring training (I'll assume that you are right about last year's K + E totals in spring training), and we also had high K + E totals during the year, then we can establish that there is "obviously" a connection between the two?

This is a correlation, which is distinct from any sort of causation, which (causation) is what you are implying.

Still not clear?

I'm taking Philosophy of Science right now, and these kinds of fallacies are exactly what we are exploring. It is certainly possible that there is a connection between ST performance and regular season performance. In no way does your "empirical" example prove it, nor anything close to that. In fact, there are many, many explanations and empirical examples which point to the contrary. It doesn't mean those are absolutely correct either, but there is in no way "obvious(ly)" that "spring stats do count for something".

I'm an English major. 'Correlate' means to put or bring in to casual, parallel, or reciprocal relation. So either way, in my words or your words, spring errors and K totals and regular season error and K totals are related in some fashion.

I'm an English major. 'Correlate' means to put or bring in to casual, parallel, or reciprocal relation. So either way, in my words or your words, spring errors and K totals and regular season error and K totals are related in some fashion.

 

yes, they're related, but there's no way to determine if the relationship is that of my tying my shoes to the rain in the former soviet union... or something more conventional, like if I pour water on Mystikol's head, he'll probably get angry.

 

Typically, in the grand scheme of things, Spring Training stats and early mishaps are closer to the former than the latter

Benched, I agree with what you say now, that they are related in some fashion - but it's how you said that spring stats "obviously" count for something. It's really not obvious that they count, and they could be related in any which way - but that way is far from determined, and certainly not more significantly corroborated in the direction of what appears to be your hypothesis.

 

......why is this so much easier and more fun to analyze than the paper I'm actually supposed to be writing.

::opens MS Word::

::opens MB.com/forums instead::

Hmmph... I was gauging interest to actually see if Mystikol would want a bucket of water dumped on his head

Spring Training is HUGE.

I mean, Alejandro De Aza is such a stud for us, as he shows in Spring Training; the relationship is undeniable.

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

 

like those below have said, small sample size

 

addition by subtraction to begin with, Gaby is an above average 1B, Hanley should continue improving as well. Maybin in CF helps a ton as well

 

How long before people stop saying this? I fall into the same category. But there comes a time when he has to show it or be moved. IMO, now is the time. And don't bother with the stats on other guys in the history of MLB and how they did in their first 3 years or so. He isn't those guys and we aren't those teams. "Guys have to out play their contracts on this team." Does that sound familiar?? Speed, defense, pitching. So far he has one of those.

Spring Training is HUGE.

I mean, Alejandro De Aza is such a stud for us, as he shows in Spring Training; the relationship is undeniable.

 

 

Bad example. De Aza has been injured almost all of the last two regular seasons. But if you can't find someone else to dump on that isn't a living God on these boards.............

 

Front office and coaching staff are high on him for a reason. "But the stats show..." Bah. I've actually WATCHED him playing healthy and can see why they are so high on him.

Hmmph... I was gauging interest to actually see if Mystikol would want a bucket of water dumped on his head

 

Only by you, PWG.

.......or if it was exceptionally warm outside, or if I had a Chia Pet on my head.

And don't bother with the stats on other guys in the history of MLB and how they did in their first 3 years or so. He isn't those guys and we aren't those teams.

Bob, what exactly is your point with that? What should our reason be to not bring up guys that disprove your theory? Because you don't think he can?

No offense to Andy Fox but I see no progress what so ever in our fielding percentage...I just don't understand how it's possible we commit soo many errors after 2 years with him already. He is not the fielding coach we need. Perry Hill should have come back to us.

 

It has less to do with the coach specifically than it does with Fox returning to regular fielding practice before games, whereas we went the first year after Hill left without it, to disastrous results.

 

Our defense is quite improved... and given losing the black hole that is Jacobs... will continue to do so this year.

They're really showing that this spring, aren't they?

 

like those below have said, small sample size

 

addition by subtraction to begin with, Gaby is an above average 1B, Hanley should continue improving as well. Maybin in CF helps a ton as well

 

How long before people stop saying this? I fall into the same category. But there comes a time when he has to show it or be moved. IMO, now is the time. And don't bother with the stats on other guys in the history of MLB and how they did in their first 3 years or so. He isn't those guys and we aren't those teams. "Guys have to out play their contracts on this team." Does that sound familiar?? Speed, defense, pitching. So far he has one of those.

 

You are suggesting moving Hanley to another position, right? Not another team. Either way, I will link you to something Nny posted awhile back. Hanley's defense improved 10-fold last season. I see no reason he can't atleast stay at that same level, and would be a bit surprised if he did not improve on his 2008 (defensive) season.

 

http://www.marlinsbaseball.com/forums/inde...c=85864&hl=

 

The idea of "speed, pitching, and defense" solely being responsible for winning is nonsense. Need someone to actually hit the damn ball, don't you? Or are you content with bunting guys over with Hanley in the first inning. Just wondering what angle you are coming from here.