March 23, 200917 yr So no one, not even Mark Wiley is sure who will make the bullpen this year. With Lindstrom and Proctor hurt (I guess those were the only two guys with spots guaranteed on the 25 man roster), it looks like a crapshoot. It's interesting that we went from having a very decent bullpen last year, to having pretty much no one who has a guaranteed spot. So who do y'all see in the bullpen come Opening Day?
March 23, 200917 yr So no one, not even Mark Wiley is sure who will make the bullpen this year. With Lindstrom and Proctor hurt (I guess those were the only two guys with spots guaranteed on the 25 man roster), it looks like a crapshoot. It's interesting that we went from having a very decent bullpen last year, to having pretty much no one who has a guaranteed spot. So who do y'all see in the bullpen come Opening Day? Pinto and Kensing should essentially be guaranteed spots, as should Leo Nunez, whom Fredi has already (informally) anointed as Matt's understudy
March 23, 200917 yr Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are locks. I reckon DLC will get a spot along with Badenhop. Outsiders are Koronka and Calero, however the thing going against Koronka is he is a lefty and Im not sure they would have 3 lefties in the pen. Since he isnt needed to start until April 18th, I wonder if they will use Miller out the pen (tho this would go against what I just said about having 3 lefties in the pen) or keep him building up arm strength and confidence in his new delivery through more innings in the minors?
March 23, 200917 yr Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are locks. I reckon DLC will get a spot along with Badenhop. Thats my predictions anyway. Hayden's mine... :mad
March 23, 200917 yr Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are locks. So is Proctor. That's already 6 guys, with the 7th man being the long reliever. That pretty much answers the question.
March 23, 200917 yr Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are locks. So is Proctor. That's already 6 guys, with the 7th man being the long reliever. That pretty much answers the question. Yeh I know Proctor is a lock but the question was who would be our relievers on Opening Day and from what I've heard, its highly doubtful Proctor will be ready for then.
March 23, 200917 yr Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are locks. So is Proctor. That's already 6 guys, with the 7th man being the long reliever. That pretty much answers the question. Yeh I know Proctor is a lock but the question was who would be our relievers on Opening Day and from what I've heard, its highly doubtful Proctor will be ready for then. My bet is Badenhop for long relief, and 1 of DLC/Calero.
March 23, 200917 yr Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are locks. So is Proctor. That's already 6 guys, with the 7th man being the long reliever. That pretty much answers the question. Yeh I know Proctor is a lock but the question was who would be our relievers on Opening Day and from what I've heard, its highly doubtful Proctor will be ready for then. ro My bet is Badenhop for long relief, and 1 of DLC/Calero. Meyer could probably double as a long reliever in addition to being the secondary LOOGY. Kensing also has experience throwing more than one inning per game. Until Proctor and Lindstrom return, I would go with this: 1. Nunez 2. Pinto 3. Kensing 4. Meyer 5. Calero 6. DLC 7. Badenhop/VandenHurk Once those two return, I would keep whoever is throwing the best out of 5-7. With Kensing and Meyer, I don't think we need to reserve a spot for a traditional long reliever (ala Waechter last year).
March 23, 200917 yr I wish the Marlins would convert VandenHurk into a reliever already. Hopefully, this will be the year to make that transition.
March 23, 200917 yr VandenHurk has such promising stuff and such a projectable body, why would you want to make him a reliever? Relievers come and go, quality starters don't grow on trees. He's still got a lot of promise.
March 23, 200917 yr VandenHurk has such promising stuff and such a projectable body, why would you want to make him a reliever? Relievers come and go, quality starters don't grow on trees. He's still got a lot of promise. No, he doesn't. He has 2 pitches. A straight fastball and a 12-6 curveball. He also gets tired after a certain amount of innings b/c he still hasn't figured out how to put hitters away. You can't survive in the big leagues as a starter with 2 pitches. They already made the transition with Tucker, for that same reason.
March 23, 200917 yr Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are locks. So is Proctor. That's already 6 guys, with the 7th man being the long reliever. That pretty much answers the question. Yeh I know Proctor is a lock but the question was who would be our relievers on Opening Day and from what I've heard, its highly doubtful Proctor will be ready for then. ro My bet is Badenhop for long relief, and 1 of DLC/Calero. Meyer could probably double as a long reliever in addition to being the secondary LOOGY. Kensing also has experience throwing more than one inning per game. Until Proctor and Lindstrom return, I would go with this: 1. Nunez 2. Pinto 3. Kensing 4. Meyer 5. Calero 6. DLC 7. Badenhop/VandenHurk Once those two return, I would keep whoever is throwing the best out of 5-7. With Kensing and Meyer, I don't think we need to reserve a spot for a traditional long reliever (ala Waechter last year). Who in your mind is the primary LOOGY? Pinto's numbers against lefties are subpar.
March 23, 200917 yr VandenHurk has such promising stuff and such a projectable body, why would you want to make him a reliever? Relievers come and go, quality starters don't grow on trees. He's still got a lot of promise. No, he doesn't. He has 2 pitches. A straight fastball and a 12-6 curveball. He also gets tired after a certain amount of innings b/c he still hasn't figured out how to put hitters away. You can't survive in the big leagues as a starter with 2 pitches. They already made the transition with Tucker, for that same reason. He has what is considered an average change up, and his fastball and curve are considered plus pitches. When you have two plus pitches and one average, you can be a decent ML starter. That is, if you throw strikes and keep your pitch counts down. And he doesn't get tired after a certain amount of innings, he gets tired after a certain amount of pitches. It just so happens he throws way too many pitches in too little innings. This is why he is still in the minor leagues, as a starting pitcher. They're going to work with him as long as they can to make that happen, because he is a big, strong body with a live arm and very good stuff. You said, they already made the transition with Tucker. Wonder why they still haven't done it with VandenHurk, whose been around considerably longer? Because Tucker has those two plus pitches, virtually no change, and is a max-effort thrower. Contrary to popular belief, the FO does not see VandenHurk as a relief pitcher. You are wrong. If you were right, he'd be coming out of the bullpen by now. Sorry.
March 23, 200917 yr VandenHurk has such promising stuff and such a projectable body, why would you want to make him a reliever? Relievers come and go, quality starters don't grow on trees. He's still got a lot of promise. No, he doesn't. He has 2 pitches. A straight fastball and a 12-6 curveball. He also gets tired after a certain amount of innings b/c he still hasn't figured out how to put hitters away. You can't survive in the big leagues as a starter with 2 pitches. They already made the transition with Tucker, for that same reason. He has what is considered an average change up, and his fastball and curve are considered plus pitches. When you have two plus pitches and one average, you can be a decent ML starter. That is, if you throw strikes and keep your pitch counts down. And he doesn't get tired after a certain amount of innings, he gets tired after a certain amount of pitches. It just so happens he throws way too many pitches in too little innings. This is why he is still in the minor leagues, as a starting pitcher. They're going to work with him as long as they can to make that happen, because he is a big, strong body with a live arm and very good stuff. You said, they already made the transition with Tucker. Wonder why they still haven't done it with VandenHurk, whose been around considerably longer? Because Tucker has those two plus pitches, virtually no change, and is a max-effort thrower. Contrary to popular belief, the FO does not see VandenHurk as a relief pitcher. You are wrong. If you were right, he'd be coming out of the bullpen by now. Sorry. Good content post. Last couple of lines were a bit harsh tho :confused Don't forget, Miller probably starts the year in AAA, so that gives us another bullpen spot. As I see it, if Proctor starts the year on the DL, we have 2 extra spots [versus our "optimum" bullpen]. If Lindstrom does the same, we have 3 spots. Lindstrom, Proctor, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, Meyer are the locks, as has been said before. But with the 3 [possible] extra spots on the roster for pitchers [on Opening Day], we can insert DLC as the 7th reliever, and then Calero, Badenhop, and Vandenhurk, for example. I prefer starting with 4 starters and 7 relievers - the 5 non-injured locks + DLC, who is out of options, + one of the last 3. Badenhop and RVH still have options, although I'm not sure how things work for Calero. Then you can carry 14 position player Baker, Gaby, Uggla, HanRam, Cantu, Hermida, Maybin, Ross - 8 starters. McPherson, Andino, Helms, Rabelo/Backup C, Raynor/ADA/Carrol - 5 bench players. That's 13 position players, and you still have room for 1 more. And I think this covers all of the guys who are out of options that we might care about. And if I missed one, stick him in as the extra player. As I understand it, it's much easier for a player to clear waivers and be stashed in AAA after the regular season has started. Who knows, the injuries may have some unforseen benefits for the roster.
March 23, 200917 yr Contrary to popular belief, the FO does not see VandenHurk as a relief pitcher. You are wrong. If you were right, he'd be coming out of the bullpen by now. Sorry. Ok, genius. When VandenHurk becomes a reliever, we'll see who's wrong.
March 23, 200917 yr Ok, genius. When VandenHurk becomes a reliever, we'll see who's wrong. Great arguement. I never said he won't be a reliever, because a year from now if he still can't go five innings without throwing 100 pitches than he will be. BUT, he is a prototypical starting pitcher. There is ZERO reason to give up on him at 23-years-old with his stuff, and you're crazy to do so. The FO obviously believes he can be a successful starter as well, or else he would be in the bullpen with Tuck. Again, bottom line, you're wrong.
March 23, 200917 yr Who in your mind is the primary LOOGY? Pinto's numbers against lefties are subpar. Pinto is still my primary left-hander out of the pen with Meyer serving as both a LOOGY and a long reliever. Last year's splits for Pinto were an oddity in that he was significantly better against right-handers. If he shows this year that it wasn't just a trend, then Meyer becomes the primary LOOGY. You don't need a long reliever every other day. Unlike the first half of last year, our rotation doesn't consist of pitchers who won't make it into the sixth inning on any given day.
March 23, 200917 yr Ok, genius. When VandenHurk becomes a reliever, we'll see who's wrong. Great arguement. I never said he won't be a reliever, because a year from now if he still can't go five innings without throwing 100 pitches than he will be. BUT, he is a prototypical starting pitcher. There is ZERO reason to give up on him at 23-years-old with his stuff, and you're crazy to do so. The FO obviously believes he can be a successful starter as well, or else he would be in the bullpen with Tuck. Again, bottom line, you're wrong. How can I be "wrong" for having an opinion? It's not as if we're talking statistics here. The guy has been around now for quite some time...and everytime he comes up it's the same thing. The WBC...same thing. He has 2+ pitches, and struggles with control. He's not a starter, and if he is...he's not going to be a starter here, with the core of guys the Marlins have (barring injuries). Starters are converted to relievers all the time these days. It's not a crazy idea. As a matter of fact, don't be surprised if he's coming out of that pen, sometime this year.
March 23, 200917 yr Who in your mind is the primary LOOGY? Pinto's numbers against lefties are subpar. Pinto is still my primary left-hander out of the pen with Meyer serving as both a LOOGY and a long reliever. Last year's splits for Pinto were an oddity in that he was significantly better against right-handers. If he shows this year that it wasn't just a trend, then Meyer becomes the primary LOOGY. You don't need a long reliever every other day. Unlike the first half of last year, our rotation doesn't consist of pitchers who won't make it into the sixth inning on any given day. Well, Pinto isn't your typical lefty reliever. He doesn't rely on great breaking stuff that runs away from lefties (ala Tank). He relies on that change up, which is what makes him so good against right handers.
March 23, 200917 yr Pinto's not a LOOGY. He's just a middle reliever, who just so happens to be left-handed. Speaking of this...Will Ohman is still out there. I've wanted him since last year's trade deadline.
March 23, 200917 yr I was hoping they were going to keep Miller in AAA until we needed a 5th starter, but with all these injuries I suspect they dump him in the pen. I'm guessing SP - Johnson, Nolasco, Volstad, Anibal RHP - Nunez, Kensing, Cruz, Proctor (Calero if injured), Badenhop LHP - Miller, Pinto, Meyer Badenhop goes down once Lindstrom is back, and Miller just shifts to the rotation. Nothing crazy. Getting rid of Kroenke and Delgado really finalized the pen for me. --- And Vanden Hurk will totally be a RP down the road. Lindstrom, Nunez, Kensing, Pinto, and Tank will all be in arbitration, and Proctor and Calero are on 1 year deals. They are going to literally have to field a new bullpen next year, and it's not like Hurk is touching Johnson, Nolasco, Miller, Volstad, and West as a front 5. He'll have to move into the pen to help us, and I suspect he is one of our top 5 righthanders after our rotation next year. You can probably only put Tucker and Ceda in front of him, and then place him next to Cruz and Leroux. After that, it's Owens? Wood? Or the plethora of maybe starters (Trahern, Winters, Sinkbiel, Allison, etc).
March 23, 200917 yr Pinto's not a LOOGY. He's just a middle reliever, who just so happens to be left-handed. Speaking of this...Will Ohman is still out there. I've wanted him since last year's trade deadline. Wow, I had no idea he was still a Free Agent. Bring his ass on this team.
March 23, 200917 yr Pinto's not a LOOGY. He's just a middle reliever, who just so happens to be left-handed. Speaking of this...Will Ohman is still out there. I've wanted him since last year's trade deadline. Wow, I didn't realize he was still on the market. That's strange.
March 23, 200917 yr The marlins are not going to sign Ohman. I wish they would, but come on, you know the marlins never do anything I dont know exactly what the bullpen will look like on opening day, and i dont really care. All I care about, all we should care about is the columns, that say Win and Lose. Here's to putting it in the Win Column.
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