Ricky's line reminds me a lot of the fuss being made over David Bush's '06 line.

 

They're basically identical.

 

Difference being that Ricky had the uber stretch which allows for better projection whereas Bush pitched like that the entire year.

That's only looking at the stats that Ricky did (marginally) better than JJ in.

That's looking at the rate stats that people actually look at. That's his "line".

 

And once again, WHIP (which I consider the most important stat of how a pitcher did) was much more than marginal. JJ's WHIP was a bit above average, Noly's WHIP was the 2nd best in the league.

 

You didn't even include HR/9 on the list.

 

And WHIP's importance it's overstated because of XBHs. Ricky was a XBH machine. JJ limited them extremely. The much higher GB rate leads to other things, like JJ's 1.24 DP/9 to ricky's 0.47 DP/9.

Yes, I left of HR/9. Probably shouldn't have but I never really look at it and just left it off.

 

 

Oh, and DP/9 isn't a fair comparison. JJ has more opportunities for double plays over 9 innings. Why? Because he has many more baserunners. The more guys you put on, the more chances you have for a double play.

My point is that it's helps negate the WHIP difference.

I hate to say I saw this coming, but... I saw this coming. All last season, as much as I was enjoying what Ricky was doing, it felt like a Carl Pavano type year. It wasn't that he had this amazing stuff... his control was just incredible. And when a pitcher with OK stuff gets incredible control, it can usually lead to a career year.

 

Thats not to say he can't get it back... but its a lot easier for JJ, due to his superior stuff. I didn't think Ricky would stumble this badly at the start, but I did see him coming back down to earth this season. Hopefully he'll put it together soon.

Yes, I left of HR/9. Probably shouldn't have but I never really look at it and just left it off.

 

And, you really shouldn't "never look at it" because it's the worse thing a pitcher can do.

 

I'm legit curious, is there any current (like, 1990+) control pitcher (sub-2 BB/9) that was a FB pitcher that can be called an ace and not a, at best, #2?

 

The control pitchers I can think of off the top of my head (Halladay-Massive GB pitcher, Maddux-GB pitcher) that could be called aces were far from FB pitchers.

I'd take JJ's 08 line over Ricky's 08 line

 

3.52 ERA, 1.102 WHIP, 8.1 H/9, 1.8 BB/9, 7.9 K/9, 4.42 K/BB

3.61 ERA, 1.351 WHIP, 9.4 H/9, 2.8 BB/9, 7.9 K/9, 2.85 K/BB

 

Pick one.

 

 

Well, the first one has...ace-like stats. :o

Last year, Nolasco started off slow. He's obviously a slow starter. With his stuff and command, I'm sure he'll pick it up.

Yes, I left of HR/9. Probably shouldn't have but I never really look at it and just left it off.

 

And, you really shouldn't "never look at it" because it's the worse thing a pitcher can do.

 

I'm legit curious, is there any current (like, 1990+) control pitcher (sub-2 BB/9) that was a FB pitcher that can be called an ace and not a, at best, #2?

 

The control pitchers I can think of off the top of my head (Halladay-Massive GB pitcher, Maddux-GB pitcher) that could be called aces were far from FB pitchers.

 

^Curt Schilling.

Last year, Nolasco started off slow. He's obviously a slow starter. With his stuff and command, I'm sure he'll pick it up.

 

I really hate this argument, since a lot of credit for Ricky's success went to his new-found cutter and splitter.

 

(This isn't really directed at you, just a general statement, but a lot of people are saying that and you're the latest so you get quoted)

Ricky simply doesn't have the same command as last year. Especially on his curve ball, which was HUGE last year.

I'm somewhat concerned through 4 starts with Nolasco. I figured by now he would have settled in, but I guess not yet.

 

The good news is that he still isn't walking many guys, but he IS striking them out.

 

The bad news is that he is averaging just over 7 hits allowed per game, and about 4-6 runs per game.

Yeah, I'm not as sure as many people seem to be. His control is obviously off.

Last year, Nolasco started off slow. He's obviously a slow starter. With his stuff and command, I'm sure he'll pick it up.

 

I really hate this argument, since a lot of credit for Ricky's success went to his new-found cutter and splitter.

 

(This isn't really directed at you, just a general statement, but a lot of people are saying that and you're the latest so you get quoted)

 

I know his control is off now, but IMO it will get better. Just a matter of time.

BTW, let's not single out Nolasco. Almost the entire pitching staff has been highly disappointing.

BTW, let's not single out Nolasco. Almost the entire pitching staff has been highly disappointing.

 

 

Especially JJ's start against the Mets!

BTW, let's not single out Nolasco. Almost the entire pitching staff has been highly disappointing.

 

 

Especially JJ's start against the Mets!

I think he meant in the last week.

We should not hate on our fellow teammates. Have faith my brothers. Tomorrow's another game. Tomorrow is a day for redemtion. We have JJ on the mound. We have faith in all our pitchers, all our hitters, no matter who they are. Once they put on a marlins jersey, they are one, and we cannot single each individual out. Lets avoid calling guys like Ricky "crapola" for he is a part of this 11-4, NL East leading team. I do not give a rats a** what our individual stats are, all I care about is the W at the end, and we have been able to do well this season. Lets not look down upon what we have done bad, but rather think of what we have done good, and further upon that. We have had great defense, speed has been amazing this year, our starting pitching for the most part has been able to keep us in ballgames until the very last inning, and our hitters have been great with RISP and getting guys to get the right hits when we need them. All we need to do is believe, our team is great this year, everybody is healthy, everybody is in it for the long haul, the 162 games. We cannot base a season on these 15 friggin games, its a long a** season. These kind of threads are very premature. I believe Ricky will get his act together, I believe JJ will once again be dominant, I believe Chris Volstad will continue to be his dominant self, getting himself out of jams. I feel Anibal will revert to his 2006 self. I feel Miller will finally show why we traded a star like Cabrera for him, and that he will get that control down and emerge as a star sooner rather than later. The bullpen will keep us in games, and with our great late in game players, we cannot lose. Lindstrom finds his control, and harnases his 99 MPH fastball into becoming the most lethal player in baseball. I feel Hanley will be Hanley, that Maybin will go back to what he was in September of last year, that Hermida will finally become that line drive, in the gaps hitter we all hoped for. Cantu will get healthy, and will anchor this team. Cody will stay hot and become that 30+ home run guy with clutch hits and great fielding. Boni will cut down on the K's, and will get on base with his good fielding. John Baker will still continue to handle our pitching staff great, and will still be that great contact hitter that we need at the top of the lineup.

 

All that is needed is faith people, don't give up hope. Its early, and as fans we should expect the best in our players. This is the year, and all our players will come through and each will be instrumental in our quest for first a division title and eventually a WS Title. GO MARLINS!

We should not hate on our fellow teammates. Have faith my brothers. Tomorrow's another game. Tomorrow is a day for redemtion. We have JJ on the mound. We have faith in all our pitchers, all our hitters, no matter who they are. Once they put on a marlins jersey, they are one, and we cannot single each individual out. Lets avoid calling guys like Ricky "crapola" for he is a part of this 11-4, NL East leading team. I do not give a rats a** what our individual stats are, all I care about is the W at the end, and we have been able to do well this season. Lets not look down upon what we have done bad, but rather think of what we have done good, and further upon that. We have had great defense, speed has been amazing this year, our starting pitching for the most part has been able to keep us in ballgames until the very last inning, and our hitters have been great with RISP and getting guys to get the right hits when we need them. All we need to do is believe, our team is great this year, everybody is healthy, everybody is in it for the long haul, the 162 games. We cannot base a season on these 15 friggin games, its a long a** season. These kind of threads are very premature. I believe Ricky will get his act together, I believe JJ will once again be dominant, I believe Chris Volstad will continue to be his dominant self, getting himself out of jams. I feel Anibal will revert to his 2006 self. I feel Miller will finally show why we traded a star like Cabrera for him, and that he will get that control down and emerge as a star sooner rather than later. The bullpen will keep us in games, and with our great late in game players, we cannot lose. Lindstrom finds his control, and harnases his 99 MPH fastball into becoming the most lethal player in baseball. I feel Hanley will be Hanley, that Maybin will go back to what he was in September of last year, that Hermida will finally become that line drive, in the gaps hitter we all hoped for. Cantu will get healthy, and will anchor this team. Cody will stay hot and become that 30+ home run guy with clutch hits and great fielding. Boni will cut down on the K's, and will get on base with his good fielding. John Baker will still continue to handle our pitching staff great, and will still be that great contact hitter that we need at the top of the lineup.

 

All that is needed is faith people, don't give up hope. Its early, and as fans we should expect the best in our players. This is the year, and all our players will come through and each will be instrumental in our quest for first a division title and eventually a WS Title. GO MARLINS!

There's no game tomorrow. It's an off day.

well i did not know that. Thank you Mr.Pessismist

We should not hate on our fellow teammates. Have faith my brothers. Tomorrow's another game. Tomorrow is a day for redemtion. We have JJ on the mound. We have faith in all our pitchers, all our hitters, no matter who they are. Once they put on a marlins jersey, they are one, and we cannot single each individual out. Lets avoid calling guys like Ricky "crapola" for he is a part of this 11-4, NL East leading team. I do not give a rats a** what our individual stats are, all I care about is the W at the end, and we have been able to do well this season. Lets not look down upon what we have done bad, but rather think of what we have done good, and further upon that. We have had great defense, speed has been amazing this year, our starting pitching for the most part has been able to keep us in ballgames until the very last inning, and our hitters have been great with RISP and getting guys to get the right hits when we need them. All we need to do is believe, our team is great this year, everybody is healthy, everybody is in it for the long haul, the 162 games. We cannot base a season on these 15 friggin games, its a long a** season. These kind of threads are very premature. I believe Ricky will get his act together, I believe JJ will once again be dominant, I believe Chris Volstad will continue to be his dominant self, getting himself out of jams. I feel Anibal will revert to his 2006 self. I feel Miller will finally show why we traded a star like Cabrera for him, and that he will get that control down and emerge as a star sooner rather than later. The bullpen will keep us in games, and with our great late in game players, we cannot lose. Lindstrom finds his control, and harnases his 99 MPH fastball into becoming the most lethal player in baseball. I feel Hanley will be Hanley, that Maybin will go back to what he was in September of last year, that Hermida will finally become that line drive, in the gaps hitter we all hoped for. Cantu will get healthy, and will anchor this team. Cody will stay hot and become that 30+ home run guy with clutch hits and great fielding. Boni will cut down on the K's, and will get on base with his good fielding. John Baker will still continue to handle our pitching staff great, and will still be that great contact hitter that we need at the top of the lineup.

 

All that is needed is faith people, don't give up hope. Its early, and as fans we should expect the best in our players. This is the year, and all our players will come through and each will be instrumental in our quest for first a division title and eventually a WS Title. GO MARLINS!

 

I certainly love and appreciate your passion, but this really truly reminded me of one of those silly, emotionally charged speeches in Grey's Anatomy since the writing turned god-awful in the last few seasons.

Chien-Ming Wang, Cole Hamels, CC Sabathia, Carlos Zambrano, Tim Lincecum.

 

As we all know, these guys are all "crapola," as well. :lol

BTW, let's not single out Nolasco. Almost the entire pitching staff has been highly disappointing.

 

 

Especially JJ's start against the Mets!

 

Yeah because one good start is really indicative of how the staff is doing altogether.

 

I'm not saying they can't do better. They can, and that is why I am disappointed. Yeah, they won 11 games, but the outcomes of some of those games don't tell the whole story. Do you really believe that our starters are pitching as well as they can? If not, you know where I am coming from. If so, you are wrong.

well i did not know that. Thank you Mr.Pessismist

Actually, I'm Senor Optimist!

 

I just thought it was funny that you came up with this rally speech and even funnier that the main point of "tomorrow's another game" came before an off-day.

We should not hate on our fellow teammates. Have faith my brothers. Tomorrow's another game. Tomorrow is a day for redemtion. We have JJ on the mound. We have faith in all our pitchers, all our hitters, no matter who they are. Once they put on a marlins jersey, they are one, and we cannot single each individual out. Lets avoid calling guys like Ricky "crapola" for he is a part of this 11-4, NL East leading team. I do not give a rats a** what our individual stats are, all I care about is the W at the end, and we have been able to do well this season. Lets not look down upon what we have done bad, but rather think of what we have done good, and further upon that. We have had great defense, speed has been amazing this year, our starting pitching for the most part has been able to keep us in ballgames until the very last inning, and our hitters have been great with RISP and getting guys to get the right hits when we need them. All we need to do is believe, our team is great this year, everybody is healthy, everybody is in it for the long haul, the 162 games. We cannot base a season on these 15 friggin games, its a long a** season. These kind of threads are very premature. I believe Ricky will get his act together, I believe JJ will once again be dominant, I believe Chris Volstad will continue to be his dominant self, getting himself out of jams. I feel Anibal will revert to his 2006 self. I feel Miller will finally show why we traded a star like Cabrera for him, and that he will get that control down and emerge as a star sooner rather than later. The bullpen will keep us in games, and with our great late in game players, we cannot lose. Lindstrom finds his control, and harnases his 99 MPH fastball into becoming the most lethal player in baseball. I feel Hanley will be Hanley, that Maybin will go back to what he was in September of last year, that Hermida will finally become that line drive, in the gaps hitter we all hoped for. Cantu will get healthy, and will anchor this team. Cody will stay hot and become that 30+ home run guy with clutch hits and great fielding. Boni will cut down on the K's, and will get on base with his good fielding. John Baker will still continue to handle our pitching staff great, and will still be that great contact hitter that we need at the top of the lineup.

 

All that is needed is faith people, don't give up hope. Its early, and as fans we should expect the best in our players. This is the year, and all our players will come through and each will be instrumental in our quest for first a division title and eventually a WS Title. GO MARLINS!

 

 

And then we can wake up and realize that about half of these things will not happen.

We should not hate on our fellow teammates. Have faith my brothers. Tomorrow's another game. Tomorrow is a day for redemtion. We have JJ on the mound. We have faith in all our pitchers, all our hitters, no matter who they are. Once they put on a marlins jersey, they are one, and we cannot single each individual out. Lets avoid calling guys like Ricky "crapola" for he is a part of this 11-4, NL East leading team. I do not give a rats a** what our individual stats are, all I care about is the W at the end, and we have been able to do well this season. Lets not look down upon what we have done bad, but rather think of what we have done good, and further upon that. We have had great defense, speed has been amazing this year, our starting pitching for the most part has been able to keep us in ballgames until the very last inning, and our hitters have been great with RISP and getting guys to get the right hits when we need them. All we need to do is believe, our team is great this year, everybody is healthy, everybody is in it for the long haul, the 162 games. We cannot base a season on these 15 friggin games, its a long a** season. These kind of threads are very premature. I believe Ricky will get his act together, I believe JJ will once again be dominant, I believe Chris Volstad will continue to be his dominant self, getting himself out of jams. I feel Anibal will revert to his 2006 self. I feel Miller will finally show why we traded a star like Cabrera for him, and that he will get that control down and emerge as a star sooner rather than later. The bullpen will keep us in games, and with our great late in game players, we cannot lose. Lindstrom finds his control, and harnases his 99 MPH fastball into becoming the most lethal player in baseball. I feel Hanley will be Hanley, that Maybin will go back to what he was in September of last year, that Hermida will finally become that line drive, in the gaps hitter we all hoped for. Cantu will get healthy, and will anchor this team. Cody will stay hot and become that 30+ home run guy with clutch hits and great fielding. Boni will cut down on the K's, and will get on base with his good fielding. John Baker will still continue to handle our pitching staff great, and will still be that great contact hitter that we need at the top of the lineup.

 

All that is needed is faith people, don't give up hope. Its early, and as fans we should expect the best in our players. This is the year, and all our players will come through and each will be instrumental in our quest for first a division title and eventually a WS Title. GO MARLINS!

 

 

And then we can wake up and realize that about half of these things will not happen.

See, this is Mr. Pessimist.