As an unselfish fan I'm all for trading Hanley especially if we can get some grade A pitching in return. Keeping him here is disastrous for his career. It's sad watching one of the best players in the majors get absolutely no recognition for his talent because his team is terrible. On top of that we have him batting 3rd in the lineup with no protection and even less RBI oppertunities. So trade him, allow him to flourish elsewhere, and get some top notch pitching in return. Everybody wins, even Hanley who I'm almost positive doesn't wish to be here

 

 

 

He signed a long-term deal here, not to long ago.

 

 

the man loves money...

 

 

Every man loves money.

We actually signed Hanley at a great price.

 

So I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

If he really didn't like it here, he wouldn't have signed. There was no gun being held to his head at the time of the contract.

 

I love how people make these assumptions like if they know him, personally.

As an unselfish fan I'm all for trading Hanley especially if we can get some grade A pitching in return. Keeping him here is disastrous for his career. It's sad watching one of the best players in the majors get absolutely no recognition for his talent because his team is terrible. On top of that we have him batting 3rd in the lineup with no protection and even less RBI oppertunities. So trade him, allow him to flourish elsewhere, and get some top notch pitching in return. Everybody wins, even Hanley who I'm almost positive doesn't wish to be here

 

 

 

He signed a long-term deal here, not to long ago.

 

 

the man loves money...

 

 

Every man loves money.

We actually signed Hanley at a great price.

 

So I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

If he really didn't like it here, he wouldn't have signed. There was no gun being held to his head at the time of the contract.

 

I love how people make these assumptions like if they know him, personally.

 

how the hell am I making assumptions. All I said is $10 million>>>>>>>>$450,000

 

thus, a big component to him signing the deal. Plus, Miami and the nightlife, good weather, etc... is another reason to stay in Florida, doesn't have to be the team that he wants to be on.

As an unselfish fan I'm all for trading Hanley especially if we can get some grade A pitching in return. Keeping him here is disastrous for his career. It's sad watching one of the best players in the majors get absolutely no recognition for his talent because his team is terrible. On top of that we have him batting 3rd in the lineup with no protection and even less RBI oppertunities. So trade him, allow him to flourish elsewhere, and get some top notch pitching in return. Everybody wins, even Hanley who I'm almost positive doesn't wish to be here

 

 

 

He signed a long-term deal here, not to long ago.

 

 

the man loves money...

 

 

Every man loves money.

We actually signed Hanley at a great price.

 

So I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

If he really didn't like it here, he wouldn't have signed. There was no gun being held to his head at the time of the contract.

 

I love how people make these assumptions like if they know him, personally.

 

how the hell am I making assumptions. All I said is $10 million>>>>>>>>$450,000

 

thus, a big component to him signing the deal. Plus, Miami and the nightlife, good weather, etc... is another reason to stay in Florida, doesn't have to be the team that he wants to be on.

 

 

He could've gotten that money from some other team...probably more. Instead he signed here...and really, it's a bargain.

To trim payroll after finally getting the new stadium approved, would be media suicide. Loria would be ripped to shreds no matter how many ways you try and explain it, if you were to trade a high played player for prospects. I don't have any answers, we can't just trade for a great pitcher, im sure every team wants more pitching. There needs to be a major shake up though, and soon!

The logic being employed here defies description.

 

At this very moment no one has more to lose by this team underachieving than ownership, try to understand that, a winning competitive ballclub right now is worth a hundred, a thousand times more than a failing, cut to the bone low cost one. From the bond community to vendors, skybox buyers and advertisers no one wants to make a substantial financial commitment (and those commitments need to be made "now" to be in the right place to profit off 2012) if the team is imploding and failing miserably and all their best known players sold off for unknown prospects regardless of their pedigrees.

 

edit: BTW, Uggla for Cain is a good example of the kind of trade they can make and profit from on and off the field as Cain is a player "now", a known commodity and we can debate whether it would be a good move, it's not one that is the type a lot of people here have previously suggested which is an Uggla for prospects no one (average fan) knows.

 

I agree with saying a lot of these kids don't quite get it and their ideas of blowing up the team are ridiculous, but it's going to be really tough to trade Uggla, or anyone, to a 'contender' during the season and produce a MLB talent in return. The original team is going to need their MLB talent for their playoff hopes. Those are offseason moves, and if the idea is Loria wants to save $5 million by shedding Uggla, one of Hermida/Ross, and Amezaga at the deadline, we're going to have to go the prospect route more than likely. This is especially true if we use the Giants hypothetical who are going to live or die on their SP staff.

 

Trading with SF starts with Aldersen. And that would be an enormous win for the Marlins. He's MLB ready next year, and who gives a sh*t if people don't know who he is. When he comes up and murders people like Volstad, people will understand.

 

 

if we can get alderson for Uggla or Cantu I would do laps around the block. Neither are going to be retained after this year anyways it would be a steal for us. Of course I would love Bum even more from them but that is a pipe dream. I doubt we could get Alderson atm unless uggla gets that average over 250.

 

I think moving of a bullpen arm like Pinto is a likely possibility at the trade deadline too as a lefty with an alright looking era has some value specially since he is controlable for 3 more years (arby after this year).

 

I could see us moving Helms perhaps for a solid replacement about the infield as well to a team.

 

We have a few options out there just need to see what happens but right now I dont see anyways we get respectable mlb talent back we get minor leaguers that have a good chance at a future.

As an unselfish fan I'm all for trading Hanley especially if we can get some grade A pitching in return. Keeping him here is disastrous for his career. It's sad watching one of the best players in the majors get absolutely no recognition for his talent because his team is terrible. On top of that we have him batting 3rd in the lineup with no protection and even less RBI oppertunities. So trade him, allow him to flourish elsewhere, and get some top notch pitching in return. Everybody wins, even Hanley who I'm almost positive doesn't wish to be here

 

 

 

He signed a long-term deal here, not to long ago.

Which was more about the money and less about his desire, or lack there of to play in south florida this season.

 

Also, I'm not sure if anyone on our current roster other than JJ and Hanley have good value.

I agree with saying a lot of these kids don't quite get it and their ideas of blowing up the team are ridiculous, but it's going to be really tough to trade Uggla, or anyone, to a 'contender' during the season and produce a MLB talent in return. The original team is going to need their MLB talent for their playoff hopes. Those are offseason moves, and if the idea is Loria wants to save $5 million by shedding Uggla, one of Hermida/Ross, and Amezaga at the deadline, we're going to have to go the prospect route more than likely. This is especially true if we use the Giants hypothetical who are going to live or die on their SP staff.

 

Trading with SF starts with Aldersen. And that would be an enormous win for the Marlins. He's MLB ready next year, and who gives a sh*t if people don't know who he is. When he comes up and murders people like Volstad, people will understand.

 

Trading for Alderson is fine as far as you are concerned and that's because you know who he is but when you're the Marlins who need to sell about $800 million in tickets, boxes, concession contracts and advertising before the doors open in 2012, trying cut a deal with Pepsi or the SoFla Chevrolet Dealers Assoc and you have to explain ten or twenty times a day why you traded "His name is Dan Uggla" for some kid with fifteen innings in AA under his belt the sale(s) get about 1000% harder, and these days every sale is precious.

 

$5 million is a p*sshole in the snow as we used to say in New England compared to the dollars at stake here, right now, in 2009. If we weren't marketing a stadium I would agree with you but right now the priority is on sales and name players "now" are needed to "fuel" those sales.

 

We'll know after the trade deadline but if they can right this ship and stay in it or close to stay in it, I still believe they will spend or do whatever they can to buy their way into the playoffs.

Your concern is noted, but it's not as important as you think it is. WINNING is everything, and getting a world beater young staff is how you do this. This isn't 2011 where we have to really concern ourselves with sponsorship for the team and sales. Chevy is not buying 2012 seats Summer of 2009. A guy like Aldersen makes this team better in 2011 (and the future big time), when everyone is going to be interested in the team. Dan Uggla does not. Cantu does not. The team becoming a winner is more important than a name, and winning has always sold tickets in South Florida. We do not need names besides Hanley Ramirez, and probably Josh Johnson as it seems he is becoming a world beater ace. We don't need to keep all our complimentary players when we are not winning. And if it's July, 4th in the NL East, and 10+ games out, we're going to move guys and reload for 2010. It's the smart thing to do for all aspects of the business.

I agree with saying a lot of these kids don't quite get it and their ideas of blowing up the team are ridiculous, but it's going to be really tough to trade Uggla, or anyone, to a 'contender' during the season and produce a MLB talent in return. The original team is going to need their MLB talent for their playoff hopes. Those are offseason moves, and if the idea is Loria wants to save $5 million by shedding Uggla, one of Hermida/Ross, and Amezaga at the deadline, we're going to have to go the prospect route more than likely. This is especially true if we use the Giants hypothetical who are going to live or die on their SP staff.

 

Trading with SF starts with Aldersen. And that would be an enormous win for the Marlins. He's MLB ready next year, and who gives a sh*t if people don't know who he is. When he comes up and murders people like Volstad, people will understand.

 

Trading for Alderson is fine as far as you are concerned and that's because you know who he is but when you're the Marlins who need to sell about $800 million in tickets, boxes, concession contracts and advertising before the doors open in 2012, trying cut a deal with Pepsi or the SoFla Chevrolet Dealers Assoc and you have to explain ten or twenty times a day why you traded "His name is Dan Uggla" for some kid with fifteen innings in AA under his belt the sale(s) get about 1000% harder, and these days every sale is precious.

 

$5 million is a p*sshole in the snow as we used to say in New England compared to the dollars at stake here, right now, in 2009. If we weren't marketing a stadium I would agree with you but right now the priority is on sales and name players "now" are needed to "fuel" those sales.

 

We'll know after the trade deadline but if they can right this ship and stay in it or close to stay in it, I still believe they will spend or do whatever they can to buy their way into the playoffs.

Your concern is noted, but it's not as important as you think it is. WINNING is everything, and getting a world beater young staff is how you do this. This isn't 2011 where we have to really concern ourselves with sponsorship for the team and sales. Chevy is not buying 2012 seats Summer of 2009. A guy like Aldersen makes this team better in 2011 (and the future big time), when everyone is going to be interested in the team. Dan Uggla does not. Cantu does not. The team becoming a winner is more important than a name, and winning has always sold tickets in South Florida. We do not need names besides Hanley Ramirez, and probably Josh Johnson as it seems he is becoming a world beater ace. We don't need to keep all our complimentary players when we are not winning. And if it's July, 4th in the NL East, and 10+ games out, we're going to move guys and reload for 2010. It's the smart thing to do for all aspects of the business.

 

Obviously if money and image were so important than the FO would have thrown out the couple of million it would have taken to bring in just a couple complimentary players that could have made the difference between losing every game in some ridiculous fashion and coming out ahead in those close games. But when the FO is cutting effective relievers because it doesn't want to give them a $100,000 raise, which is chump change in this business, then they can't expect a reasonably competitive team from last year to magically become a playoff team this year.

I'll be psyched if we trade Uggla for Cain and a propect or cash.

 

lol. I love how it's Cain, AND, a prospect. We would never ever ever get Cain for him.

 

We'd be lucky as all hell to get Tim Aldersen. And the Marlins would jump on that in 1 second if they could get him for Uggla.

You sir are underrating Uggla's trade value.

No I'm not. Go to a Giants board and see what they think for Uggla-Cain or Uggla-Aldersen straight up. They will laugh. They would want to trade J. Sanchez straight up for Uggla. We'd be incredibly lucky to get a pitcher like Aldersena. We'd have to throw them a decent 2nd piece minimum, and like someone else said, they can buy real low on a guy like Mark DeRosa that granted isn't as good as Uggla or Cantu, but is still a significant upgrade.

 

We aren't going to get a Cam Maybin or Andrew Miller for Uggla. (Aldersen would be one of them). But we're also not going to get a Leo Nunez. It's going to be something in between. Probably like a West, or Ryan Tucker, with a second piece like a Badenhop. That's where Uggla's value is. And this slump has nothing to do with it. That's just who Uggla is.

I just hope that when the Marlins move into there new stadium that they aren't still cheap like the Pirates are. New stadiums guarantee nothing but money in the owner's pockets. So I just hope that this July is not another fire sale.

Hopefully the change they are looking for is Boni out of the lineup.

Add in the fact that if we do somehow nab Alderson and he doesn't produce right away, the masses will go crazy. They'll be calling for the kid's head and blaming management again for getting rid of Uggla for nothing. We've seen the patience they have exhibited with Hermida, Maybin, and Miller.

I just hope that when the Marlins move into there new stadium that they aren't still cheap like the Pirates are.

I think Loria was saying we will be in the middle of the pack when it comes to payroll. Correct me if I am wrong.

I just hope that when the Marlins move into there new stadium that they aren't still cheap like the Pirates are.

I think Loria was saying we will be in the middle of the pack when it comes to payroll. Correct me if I am wrong.

He says he expects to draw about 2.5 million a year, and be somewhere in the middle of the pack as a result of that attendance figure.

I'll be psyched if we trade Uggla for Cain and a propect or cash.

 

lol. I love how it's Cain, AND, a prospect. We would never ever ever get Cain for him.

 

We'd be lucky as all hell to get Tim Aldersen. And the Marlins would jump on that in 1 second if they could get him for Uggla.

You sir are underrating Uggla's trade value.

No I'm not. Go to a Giants board and see what they think for Uggla-Cain or Uggla-Aldersen straight up. They will laugh. They would want to trade J. Sanchez straight up for Uggla. We'd be incredibly lucky to get a pitcher like Aldersena. We'd have to throw them a decent 2nd piece minimum, and like someone else said, they can buy real low on a guy like Mark DeRosa that granted isn't as good as Uggla or Cantu, but is still a significant upgrade.

 

We aren't going to get a Cam Maybin or Andrew Miller for Uggla. (Aldersen would be one of them). But we're also not going to get a Leo Nunez. It's going to be something in between. Probably like a West, or Ryan Tucker, with a second piece like a Badenhop. That's where Uggla's value is. And this slump has nothing to do with it. That's just who Uggla is.

Alderson for Uggla straight up, would not be a good trade for us.Alderson isn't even ready for the big leagues anytime soon.Do you and Erick have a fortune cookie that guarantees Alderson becomes a star?.

As i see it, we have nice pitching prospects in the minors.

I just hope that when the Marlins move into there new stadium that they aren't still cheap like the Pirates are.

I think Loria was saying we will be in the middle of the pack when it comes to payroll. Correct me if I am wrong.

He says he expects to draw about 2.5 million a year, and be somewhere in the middle of the pack as a result of that attendance figure.

I was talking about the teams payroll not the attendance.

I just hope that when the Marlins move into there new stadium that they aren't still cheap like the Pirates are.

I think Loria was saying we will be in the middle of the pack when it comes to payroll. Correct me if I am wrong.

He says he expects to draw about 2.5 million a year, and be somewhere in the middle of the pack as a result of that attendance figure.

I was talking about the teams payroll not the attendance.

Don't expect payroll over $55 million when the stadium opens.It will probably be in the 40's until a better owner is brought in.

I'll be psyched if we trade Uggla for Cain and a propect or cash.

 

lol. I love how it's Cain, AND, a prospect. We would never ever ever get Cain for him.

 

We'd be lucky as all hell to get Tim Aldersen. And the Marlins would jump on that in 1 second if they could get him for Uggla.

You sir are underrating Uggla's trade value.

No I'm not. Go to a Giants board and see what they think for Uggla-Cain or Uggla-Aldersen straight up. They will laugh. They would want to trade J. Sanchez straight up for Uggla. We'd be incredibly lucky to get a pitcher like Aldersena. We'd have to throw them a decent 2nd piece minimum, and like someone else said, they can buy real low on a guy like Mark DeRosa that granted isn't as good as Uggla or Cantu, but is still a significant upgrade.

 

We aren't going to get a Cam Maybin or Andrew Miller for Uggla. (Aldersen would be one of them). But we're also not going to get a Leo Nunez. It's going to be something in between. Probably like a West, or Ryan Tucker, with a second piece like a Badenhop. That's where Uggla's value is. And this slump has nothing to do with it. That's just who Uggla is.

Alderson for Uggla straight up, would not be a good trade for us.Alderson isn't even ready for the big leagues anytime soon.Do you and Erick have a fortune cookie that guarantees Alderson becomes a star?.

Aldersen is ready by next year easily, if not sooner. He's more progressed than West, and we have no fear of using him (even if in desperation). And he is going to be very good. We'd be extremely lucky to get him for Uggla if the decision is made to trade Dan.

I just hope that when the Marlins move into there new stadium that they aren't still cheap like the Pirates are.

I think Loria was saying we will be in the middle of the pack when it comes to payroll. Correct me if I am wrong.

He says he expects to draw about 2.5 million a year, and be somewhere in the middle of the pack as a result of that attendance figure.

I was talking about the teams payroll not the attendance.

I worded that sort of weird. Loria has said he expects to be around middle of the pack in payroll, assuming they draw their expected 2.5 million fans. He's willing to spend if the fans come. That's basically the situation, so hope they draw 30k a game if you want an $80 million payroll.

As i see it, we have nice pitching prospects in the minors.

 

 

 

 

we do, when are they gonna be ready? 2012?

 

 

Cause there sure arent many on the horizon.

Sean West, Ryan Tucker, Aaron Thompson, P.J Dean, Graham Taylor.

 

To name a few.

Sean West, Ryan Tucker, Aaron Thompson, P.J Dean, Graham Taylor.

 

To name a few.

 

West could be great if he is able to harness his control. Tucker is injured, and going to be a reliever. Thompson could be a finesse lefty 4/5 if everything goes right, and currently has a 1.65 whip in AA. He's young, he can hang out in the minors 2-3 years. Not close. Dean hasn't been throwing this season, and projects to be a swingman by the time he moves up levels as he does not have the great pure stuff. Taylor is Taylor. He can be a bad teams 5, just like Nate Robertson. Or maybe turn himself into a long reliever. He does not have good stuff. He's not very good.

 

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Marlins, but you really have no idea what you are talking about. We have a very good farm system, but it's based on Maybin, Stanton, Morrison, Dominguez, Coghlan, G. Sanchez, and Skipworth. West is the only SP right now that seems to have longterm potential, Thompson/Trahern/Winters/Taylor do not look like anything more than innings eaters even if they have a bit of potential, and we have a few maybes in A ball with Sanabia, Kaminska, and the 2008 draft class (Hand, etc). Our best other P prospects - Tucker, Ceda, and Leroux - are both going to be relievers. Probably Vanden Hurk too if he makes it back.

 

We could really use another big time SP prospect. We don't have much on the horizon, and whether it's this trading deadline or after the year, we're going to have to trade Uggla/Cantu/Ross/Amezaga/Hermida, for as much pitching as they can bring back.

Sean West, Ryan Tucker, Aaron Thompson, P.J Dean, Graham Taylor.

 

To name a few.

 

 

 

 

isnt tucker a reliever now? and he failed during his first time up. looks like he is hurt and sucked before he got hurt.

 

west was rushed, we'll see what happens.

 

taylor failed in his first time up.

 

thompson is pitching like garbage in AA.

 

pj dean...is he even active right now?

 

 

so be still my beating heart. thats a 'ton'

Maybe the reason we don't have many elite pitching prospects in the minors is because over the past few years our rotation has been assembled of them